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How come null is so empty

First post
Author
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#261 - 2012-12-14 08:05:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Anything improve yet? Anybody? No?

Alright keep arguing I'll check back later.




The usual bickering and trolling down anything that breaks status quo. I can't really figure out if EVE hard core are a bunch of fat, retired politicians or unemployed game developers.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#262 - 2012-12-14 09:36:55 UTC
Nullsec is empty because Nullsec isn't fun. Want money? Sit in belts and Rat for 4 hours. Want PvP? Get in your Drake and press F1 with 50 other guys, or sit on a gate for hours with a dozen friends and crap on ships as they occasionally come through one at a time.
Indecisive Cid
The Scope
#263 - 2012-12-14 11:24:02 UTC
im too afraid to leave hi sec, and occasionally low sec, but actually seems low is worse than null, excluding npc of course
IXD
Skawl
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#264 - 2012-12-14 11:32:14 UTC
Come visit HED-GP
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#265 - 2012-12-14 13:45:37 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You apparently really want the problem to be high-sec isk generation (which I could honestly care less about, I mostly mission for standing when I do, which doesn't really play the same as missioning for isk/hr).

The mining improvement is just fine, and does its job admirably in moderate nullsec systems, including a way to get a cheap thrill ride if you have a nice heavy ship.

By your latest response it sounds like the exploration improvements are actually used (and if you look back you'll see I skipped the wormhole improvement, I may not live in nullsec right now but I'm not *stupid*).


Jury is still out about that last bit.

Quote:

I honestly expected that the loot from the combat sigs and profession sites to at least match up with that available from anomalies, especially in systems where the anomaly spawns aren't the best.


And the underlined part is where you fall of the rails. It doesn't work that way at all and a person with actual null sec experience would know that.

But, rather than spending the time to learn about the topic you felt confident enough to post about, you spent time arguing about it.

Learn 1st, argue 2nd.

Quote:

Simply put, if you can't improve a -0.1 system sufficiently that it can pay the sovereignty and upgrade bills with enough left over to build on then that is what is broken. The people who are currently living with it should be lobbying hard to get that fixed. No nullsec alliance should ever need to be dependent on highsec income for isk.


LOL, which is what we're talking about here. CCP has have been basically raising high sec rewards while snuffing out null sec rewards (militarily speaking, the industry side has always been rather crap)

You see, your ignorance of the subject is your problem. It used to be the way you say it should be. EVERY null sec system cold be upgraded the same as every other (with 2 sanctums and 2 havens per system, this back before the buff, Forsaken and forlorn hubs were barely ok back then).

And it was BAD. All space was even, even PROVIDENCE was useful (which is just wrong). It pumped crazy isk into EVE (back before the titan changes, I watched corp mates with a titan and a tracking link scimitar make 350 to 500 mil PER HOUR) while taking away an incentive to fight (if all "land" is good, why fight for land?).

So they nerfed it to it's current state. NOW most null sec systems that get upgrade can support a couple of dedicated raters because exactly SIX anomalies are worth doing and the rest are crap. (Both Sanctums, Both Havens, Forsaken Hub and Forlorn Hub).

And even in an upgrade system by yourself, and even with the most deadspace fitted ratting sub-capital ship you can take you STILL aren't going to make much more in null sec than you would in a high sec incursion fleet where you do nothing but press the buttons the FC tells you without even having to glance at local (because you can't even be in fleet if you are war-decced). when you factor in LP, High Sec incursions pay the individual pilot more than what he could make in null sec ratting in the exact same ship.

I still do anomalies in null because I actually like the activate and escalations are one of my favorite things about EVE, but from a pure solo isk-making stand point, null sec sucks behind wormholes and high sec incursions. high sec missions make less isk than null sec anoms and exploration, but is virtually un-interuptable where as null sec pve get interupted all the time.

Any of this clear to you yet?

Quote:

Apart from those items, what you have said about what goes on in nullsec on the whole matches up with what I experienced (less some of the more unpleasant aspects of my particular choice of people to go there with in the past).


Your experience sucks. Either you've never been to null or you didn't pay any attention when you were there. and how long ago was this anyway? 2010 null isn't the same as 2012 null.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#266 - 2012-12-14 13:46:51 UTC
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
Nullsec is empty because Nullsec isn't fun. Want money? Sit in belts and Rat for 4 hours. Want PvP? Get in your Drake and press F1 with 50 other guys, or sit on a gate for hours with a dozen friends and crap on ships as they occasionally come through one at a time.


The ignorance about null sec should be astounding, but it doesn't even surprise me anymore.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#267 - 2012-12-14 13:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Pohbis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
None of that stuff is broken. What CCP broke was isk making ability in high sec, to which there is now no easy fix.
Actually, all of them are broken.

Hi-sec lvl 4s are the baseline for ISK/h. If 0.0 dwellers feel the need to have alts in hi-sec, that means that the ISK/h in 0.0 is broken.

If you reduced income in hi-sec, 0.0 systems still wouldn't be able to support more players, it would only make them more profitable for the few players they currently support.


The problem with that is power creep/ isk style. Buffing null sec just returns the game to the days before the systems upgrade nerf.

As far as individual income went, null sec was ok, even before the system upgrades scheme was put in. Then came the triple wammys of Wormholes (and blue loot), incursions (which exist everywhere but wormholes but can really only be farmed in high sec), and a big nerf to the ability to militarily upgrade null sec systems.

The upgrade nerf would have been totally ok if Incursions and wormholes didn't exist (especially incursions). But nerfing upgrades AND maintaining high sec content that lets a scrub in a tech1 battleship make 90-110 mil minimum an hour under the protection of concord = less combat pve done in null sec, more in high sec.

Fewer ratters/explorers/anom runners in null sec means fewer shiney targets (like carriers, machariels and vindicators) to be caught in plexes and blown up, less need for null sec business types to keep deep nullsec stations stocked with ammo and missiles (try to find reasonably price Null L in fountain lol) and other bad effects.

Imagine a water world where the economy is dependent on fishing, but the fish have the option of living on dry land where police will shoot you if you try to catch them..... That's EVE in it's current state.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#268 - 2012-12-14 14:13:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You apparently really want the problem to be high-sec isk generation (which I could honestly care less about, I mostly mission for standing when I do, which doesn't really play the same as missioning for isk/hr).

The mining improvement is just fine, and does its job admirably in moderate nullsec systems, including a way to get a cheap thrill ride if you have a nice heavy ship.

By your latest response it sounds like the exploration improvements are actually used (and if you look back you'll see I skipped the wormhole improvement, I may not live in nullsec right now but I'm not *stupid*).


Jury is still out about that last bit.

Quote:

I honestly expected that the loot from the combat sigs and profession sites to at least match up with that available from anomalies, especially in systems where the anomaly spawns aren't the best.


And the underlined part is where you fall of the rails. It doesn't work that way at all and a person with actual null sec experience would know that.

But, rather than spending the time to learn about the topic you felt confident enough to post about, you spent time arguing about it.

Learn 1st, argue 2nd.

The best way to learn is to *ask*, which is why I did. I had to be blasted persistent to get an answer to my question, too.

I've learned a lot about how nullsec is currently run from this thread, and I've learned that there are a lot of people playing there that I am glad I don't have to deal with on a day-to-day basis as well.

Clear aether to you.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#269 - 2012-12-14 14:20:15 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
You apparently really want the problem to be high-sec isk generation (which I could honestly care less about, I mostly mission for standing when I do, which doesn't really play the same as missioning for isk/hr).

The mining improvement is just fine, and does its job admirably in moderate nullsec systems, including a way to get a cheap thrill ride if you have a nice heavy ship.

By your latest response it sounds like the exploration improvements are actually used (and if you look back you'll see I skipped the wormhole improvement, I may not live in nullsec right now but I'm not *stupid*).


Jury is still out about that last bit.

Quote:

I honestly expected that the loot from the combat sigs and profession sites to at least match up with that available from anomalies, especially in systems where the anomaly spawns aren't the best.


And the underlined part is where you fall of the rails. It doesn't work that way at all and a person with actual null sec experience would know that.

But, rather than spending the time to learn about the topic you felt confident enough to post about, you spent time arguing about it.

Learn 1st, argue 2nd.

The best way to learn is to *ask*, which is why I did. I had to be blasted persistent to get an answer to my question, too.


Now you're simply lying. You did not ask, you told.

Quote:

I've learned a lot about how nullsec is currently run from this thread, and I've learned that there are a lot of people playing there that I am glad I don't have to deal with on a day-to-day basis as well.

Clear aether to you.


It's clear to me that you are the type that would blame others for his failing rather than take responsibility for his actions (you choose to enter a discussion you were not prepared for, yet that is somehow my fault?). In other words, you're a high sec player.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#270 - 2012-12-14 14:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzy Warstl
Hey, better to learn in 3 days on the forums than in 3 months on the server.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#271 - 2012-12-14 16:56:19 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Hey, better to learn in 3 days on the forums than in 3 months on the server.



Before I started reading the forums I was putting small lasers on Minmatar battle cruisers. Shocked


(true story)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#272 - 2012-12-14 16:59:43 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Hey, better to learn in 3 days on the forums than in 3 months on the server.



Before I started reading the forums I was putting small lasers on Minmatar battle cruisers. Shocked


(true story)


And there is nothing wrong with that kind of.....alternative lifestyle.....
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#273 - 2012-12-14 17:21:26 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Hey, better to learn in 3 days on the forums than in 3 months on the server.



Before I started reading the forums I was putting small lasers on Minmatar battle cruisers. Shocked


(true story)

Wait.... You mean that's not good?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#274 - 2012-12-14 17:25:31 UTC
Skawl wrote:
Come visit HED-GP

Done that a few times recently. Took five guys down there, couple cyna's and a few smaller things. You guys docked up fast and when you did undock it was with over seventy Oracles (or was it Navy Apocalypses? - I forget) with a couple triage carriers. Yes, yes I know you will toss out the friends card here, but I found it amusing the local smack (which I will not repeat here due to how terrible/spergy it was) from you guys when we refused to engage that on your station. And no your fleet was not for some other op, it was for our five man gang. Having spies is nice and entertaining.

I'll say it again. Anyone in the mega coalition has no right to complain about lack of targets and or why so much of null is empty. Not saying you Skawl, but there has been several people on the forums recently in your mega coalition doing so.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#275 - 2012-12-15 18:03:55 UTC
"How come null is so empty"

I might actually read this thread at some point, but first let me answer the question:

Null is empty because EVE Online is played by people, and generally, people do what is easy, not what is hard, what is safe, not what is dangerous, what is simple, not what is complicated, what is cheap, not what is expensive, etc. In null, the players will kick your ass. The rats will kick your ass. The unfamiliar dynamics will kick your ass. ("What's a bubble?") The logistics of simply getting from one place to another will kick your ass. (Where else, but in null, would you end up on a 50 jump route?) Most importantly, though, the emptiness will kick your ass. Null is a lonely place. It takes a certain type of person to pioneer into such a place, and those type of people are very apt to chafe under the yoke of alliance dogma, and there probably aren't many of them playing EVE to begin with (or in the world, for that matter).

CCP can make a great game. They can't make a great player to play it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#276 - 2012-12-15 18:13:45 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
CCP can make a great game. They can't make a great player to play it.

EVE is cold and harsh.

Blobs are cold and harsh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Imports Plus
Doomheim
#277 - 2012-12-15 18:32:47 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Skawl wrote:
Come visit HED-GP

Done that a few times recently. Took five guys down there, couple cyna's and a few smaller things. You guys docked up fast and when you did undock it was with over seventy Oracles (or was it Navy Apocalypses? - I forget) with a couple triage carriers. Yes, yes I know you will toss out the friends card here, but I found it amusing the local smack (which I will not repeat here due to how terrible/spergy it was) from you guys when we refused to engage that on your station. And no your fleet was not for some other op, it was for our five man gang. Having spies is nice and entertaining.

I'll say it again. Anyone in the mega coalition has no right to complain about lack of targets and or why so much of null is empty. Not saying you Skawl, but there has been several people on the forums recently in your mega coalition doing so.


Because NCDOTTE has never undocked 70 carriers for a BC fleet. never
Solj RichPopolous
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#278 - 2012-12-15 18:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Obviously null sec is empty cause all the pro pvpers have decimated everyone and sent them packing back to high sec. You often see the elite null pvpers in local in high sec observing others fight and telling them how bad they are and if they were any good they'd go to null and get titan hot dropped by their other elite pro PvP friends (Evoke comes to mind)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#279 - 2012-12-15 20:11:38 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Obviously null sec is empty cause all the pro pvpers have decimated everyone and sent them packing back to high sec. You often see the elite null pvpers in local in high sec observing others fight and telling them how bad they are and if they were any good they'd go to null and get titan hot dropped by their other elite pro PvP friends (Evoke comes to mind)

Titan hotdrops and you don't think first of PL?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alagos Thum
Doomheim
#280 - 2012-12-15 21:03:05 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Wat.

First off, no one ever wants to shoot structures. People in nullsec alliances generally want good fights, or gudfites as we call them.


Then why don't TEST and Goons fight eachother? According to CFC leaders, you faced little resistance in Delve, so it would be the logical choice to get a good fight.