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Smartbomb rigs and implants
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Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#21 - 2012-12-13 00:15:30 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Malecite wrote:
Why are not any? Would be nice. Something like

T1 rig + 2km range T2 rig +5km range
R1 rig +50% damage T2 rig +100% damage
implants the same


Um, this would allow a typical tier 3 battlecruiser to do something like 30,000 alpha damage to everything in a 2 km radius... and to do so twice before CONCORD arrives in medium-sec systems. Without even having to target (so no warning or countermeasures whatsoever, either)

Which, for example would allow you to kill DOZENS of ships in the Jita undock within seconds out of nowhere by successively undocking 3 or 4 BCs in a row and setting them off, at a cost of only about a third of a billion isk...

Or warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with one or two range bonuses and the rest damage and just wiping out everything nearly instantly before anybody can even begin locking targets.

So yeah, those numbers seem way Way WAY off. But the basic concept of rigs/implants are good. I'm thinking more like... +750m t1, +1.5km t2, and +10% damage t1, +20% damage t2


tier 3 battlecruisers can't fit 8 large smartbombs. they can fit mediums but they will NOT get 30k alpha. Maybe 4k with rigs and everything.

8 large smartbombs have a maximum alpha of 2400. with 3 100% boost rigs they would still only get around 10k alpha

moreover, you can't smartbomb on undock of a station, you can't smartbomb within 0 of celestial objects like stations and gates (or certain containers...but i really think that should be changed)

warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with a smartbomber SHOULD get you kills if you place it perfectly and the ships are squishy enough. That's the point of using them.

anyways, 100% is a bit too much in any scenario as the DPS on a smartbomber would be around 1200 with 3 rigs, which is clearly too much for AoE damage. 600 or maybe 700 should be the maximum possible with rigs and everything.

However, I am more interested in having bigger range on smartbombs than considerably more damage. They are meant for killing drones and frigates anyhow. Also, a reduction in cap use would be great, they require a huge amount of cap to run for even a short amount of time.

...btw make smartbombing bonused ships >: )



the POWA of disco camps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlZ0EcsneSg now if they weree wider area and damage could cause mega trouble :P

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Sigras
Conglomo
#22 - 2012-12-14 07:48:46 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sigras wrote:
because its freaking impossible to ever get in range of anyone with a smartbomb!


The numbers I used above included one range upgrade, which gives you 10km. It's kinda sad if you can't get within 10km of somebody, even with ALL of your low and mid slots available for speed mods.

Note that the one single range upgrade increases the total volume of the sphere of influence by a factor of 8, by the way...

With all range upgrades instead of damage, you could get up to 22+km and 87x the volume of the original smartbomb...

You realize the two upgrades would be mutually exclusive right? So to get such great range you would drop back down to the fairly pathetic damage that theyre doing right now (320 DPS)

you could get 7,000 alpha with 10 km range, or 2,400 alpha with 22 km range not 7,000 alpha with 22 km range.

Also you realize that most fights in 0.0 take place outside of 15 km right? I mean there are some small gang fights where the talos is the predator, but most large fleet fights (where this ship would actually be useful) happen between 15-35 km

nobody ever sits still enough for people to get a warp in on them because that usually means doom!

have you ever tried getting within 10 km of a large fleet? especially in a battleship, its nearly impossible, everyone just burns away from you

Its the same reason blasters are not popular for fleet fights, because they lack versatility and range; nobody wants to ever fight that close up.

TL;DR
getting within 10 km of one guy: easy
getting within 10 km of 5 guys simultaneously: impossible (unless theyre morons)

Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
As for cost, for 7000 alpha you can pay:
tech1 large smartbombs = about 500k isk and do 300 damage.
Armageddon battleship for example is about 100 million.
let's say the rigs and implant are 10million each
a few heavy armor plates and t1 high meta level resists = like 5 million more
a bunch of cheap shield buffer = another few million
-71 million back in insurance
Full cost of suiciding is 95ish million

Compare to typical ganky battleship blaster fits that have about the same range and the same DPS and the same alpha (on one target), yet cost billions of isk and can only shoot one ship at a time... Most of the vindicator fits I've seen spend more on a single magnetic field stabilizer than this entire smartbomb ship would cost.

Cost effectiveness of damage dealing is thus about 10x higher here than a "normal" fit, PER SHIP within 10km (e.g. with 4 ships in range, 40x more cost effective than blasters)

Which is exactly why nobody uses blasters either . . .
Sigras
Conglomo
#23 - 2012-12-14 07:54:00 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
the POWA of disco camps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlZ0EcsneSg now if they weree wider area and damage could cause mega trouble :P

While this is one of my favorite Eve videos, it doesnt demonstrate real PvP; they were sitting on the warp in point to a gate in a static plex meaning their enemy had no choice but to warp to 0 on them.

That and apparently the enemy didnt scout or didnt listen to their scout . . .

Anyway, this would never happen in 0.0 except for maybe the R&K cyno bomb, though hotdrops are another issue that I think needs to be balanced (read nerfed heavily)
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-12-14 08:11:50 UTC
Smartbomb rigs are a good idea, but your numbers are way too high. +20% per rig would be more appropriate (25% for t2), both to range and damage.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
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