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Hi-sec as we know it has to come to an end ASAP, and here´s why.
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#41 - 2012-12-14 00:56:14 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:
This aberration is against the hearth and soul of this game, promoting single-player-esque autism in a harmful and dangerous way. We, people, have failed has a community.

I endorse this butchering of the English language and its colloquialisms.


I actually thought the hearth part was pretty imagery, but then he used 'autism' to describe general stupid behavior, we gotta stop doing that, it's really inaccurate, and kinda not cool.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-12-14 00:57:48 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:
This aberration is against the hearth and soul of this game, promoting single-player-esque autism in a harmful and dangerous way. We, people, have failed has a community.

I endorse this butchering of the English language and its colloquialisms.


I actually thought the hearth part was pretty imagery, but then he used 'autism' to describe general stupid behavior, we gotta stop doing that, it's really inaccurate, and kinda not cool.

I agree 100%, that's why I endorse it.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#43 - 2012-12-14 00:58:02 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

All the professions in the game are just as viable and available for one player as they are the next, regardless of what region of space they live in. In fact, it is more often than not the player's choice of profession that will determine what region of space they choose to live in, not the other way around.


Are you HONESTLY sayin Industry is viable for a new player? The only thing theyve available is mindless mining.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-12-14 00:59:21 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm not seeing how separating highsec and creating barriers between these islands would lead to a greater spread of people. Wouldn't this just lead to greater concentration in more popular areas as you've added another harder to overcome obstacle to travel rather than just having time, which is the case now, being the primary factor in highsec travel?



Thats why a wise distribution of resources would be critical.

Distribution is somewhat meaningless at the moment. The greatest proof of this is that there exist resources all around eve yet we still have a single undisputed master trade hub. Resources of various types, including those commonly distributed now, would need to near exclusivity to certain areas to incentivise living there as you've created barriers to natural spreading of people.
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#45 - 2012-12-14 01:02:01 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm not seeing how separating highsec and creating barriers between these islands would lead to a greater spread of people. Wouldn't this just lead to greater concentration in more popular areas as you've added another harder to overcome obstacle to travel rather than just having time, which is the case now, being the primary factor in highsec travel?



Thats why a wise distribution of resources would be critical.

Distribution is somewhat meaningless at the moment.



Thats what needs to be changed.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-12-14 01:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm not seeing how separating highsec and creating barriers between these islands would lead to a greater spread of people. Wouldn't this just lead to greater concentration in more popular areas as you've added another harder to overcome obstacle to travel rather than just having time, which is the case now, being the primary factor in highsec travel?



Thats why a wise distribution of resources would be critical.

Distribution is somewhat meaningless at the moment.



Thats what needs to be changed.

The core issue there isn't highsec.
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#47 - 2012-12-14 01:07:35 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm not seeing how separating highsec and creating barriers between these islands would lead to a greater spread of people. Wouldn't this just lead to greater concentration in more popular areas as you've added another harder to overcome obstacle to travel rather than just having time, which is the case now, being the primary factor in highsec travel?



Thats why a wise distribution of resources would be critical.

Distribution is somewhat meaningless at the moment.



Thats what needs to be changed.

The core issue there isn't highsec.



The core issue is that we tryin to ice skate on concrete, we need a rework on the field where the game is being played.

We´re encouraged to feel free to do whatever, and to have an everybody-in-the-same-boat experience, but the current distribution of space wont let us.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-12-14 01:10:55 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:

The core issue is that we tryin to ice skate on concrete, we need a rework on the field where the game is being played.

We´re encouraged to feel free to do whatever, and to have an everybody-in-the-same-boat experience, but the current distribution of space wont let us.

Your suggestion doesn't do that, nor have you gone into any other factors of it that would make it have the desired effect. So far as best I can tell the suggestion you have made will have the opposite effect. Concentration rather than spreading of people. More unused space and possibly a harder time for newer players getting into transport and industry roles.
Sarmea Moon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-12-14 01:11:44 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

All the professions in the game are just as viable and available for one player as they are the next, regardless of what region of space they live in. In fact, it is more often than not the player's choice of profession that will determine what region of space they choose to live in, not the other way around.


Are you HONESTLY sayin Industry is viable for a new player? The only thing theyve available is mindless mining.



Yes I am. I still make cash on T1 modules. Are they going to make T2 right out the gate? Nope. They aren't going to do level 4's and wormhole sleepers out the gate either. You CAN do level 4 courier missions with under 24hours of skill training, and in the time that it takes to earn the cash for a freighter, you'll have trained the skills. You can effectively PVP within the first week by going tackler.

You obviously have no idea how to build a trade hub, or anything about industry. I started in Yulai after it had been deserted for Jita, and I still made cash. I am making cash right now in the back boondocks of the Amarr empire.

Industry requires a different real life skillset than missions or pvp. You have to have the ability to read graphs, charts, and excel spreadsheets, and enjoy doing so. Combing through to find out what is still profitable to build is a little time consuming, but enjoyable for the industry minded.

Coming back after a long break I went right back to Industry with a new alt, and was making a profit a week later. The new alt is also doing research, planetary interaction, and is working on the standings to drop a POS- which she'll have the skills for by the time her courier mission fed standings are high enough:P

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse [lady of commercial virtue]. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.- James Nicoll
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#50 - 2012-12-14 01:19:53 UTC
Sarmea Moon wrote:

Yes I am. I still make cash on T1 modules. Are they going to make T2 right out the gate? Nope. They aren't going to do level 4's and wormhole sleepers out the gate either. You CAN do level 4 courier missions with under 24hours of skill training, and in the time that it takes to earn the cash for a freighter, you'll have trained the skills. You can effectively PVP within the first week by going tackler.

You obviously have no idea how to build a trade hub, or anything about industry. I started in Yulai after it had been deserted for Jita, and I still made cash. I am making cash right now in the back boondocks of the Amarr empire.

Industry requires a different real life skillset than missions or pvp. You have to have the ability to read graphs, charts, and excel spreadsheets, and enjoy doing so. Combing through to find out what is still profitable to build is a little time consuming, but enjoyable for the industry minded.

Coming back after a long break I went right back to Industry with a new alt, and was making a profit a week later. The new alt is also doing research, planetary interaction, and is working on the standings to drop a POS- which she'll have the skills for by the time her courier mission fed standings are high enough:P


Without a perfect skill set and huge investments, manufacturin, and specifically T1 manufacturin, its completely sterile, again, its not a opinion, its a question of numbers, mathematical fact.
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#51 - 2012-12-14 01:21:12 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Phil Da Agony wrote:

The core issue is that we tryin to ice skate on concrete, we need a rework on the field where the game is being played.

We´re encouraged to feel free to do whatever, and to have an everybody-in-the-same-boat experience, but the current distribution of space wont let us.

Your suggestion doesn't do that, nor have you gone into any other factors of it that would make it have the desired effect. So far as best I can tell the suggestion you have made will have the opposite effect. Concentration rather than spreading of people. More unused space and possibly a harder time for newer players getting into transport and industry roles.



That will only happen if resources and content were distributed poorly.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-12-14 01:26:48 UTC
Phil Da Agony wrote:
...its bad for the game and thats a fact not an opinion,...


This part cracked me up. I hope it's not just a translation malapropism. It loses some funny if it's not sincere.
Torak Dakos
The Reckless Masquerade
#53 - 2012-12-14 01:31:01 UTC
i fail to see the problem. there are alot of pilots that enjoy highsec, why take that away for it? if you like lawless space you have that avaliable, why limite ppls choices.

And if ppl sell stuff under production price just buy it and sell for profit? how hard is that.

do you really believe it will be for the greater good of the game to deprive a VERY large part of the userbase from what they love?
Sarmea Moon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-12-14 01:31:35 UTC
I say again, the "perfect skillset" doesn't take long to train. I DID IT WITH A NEW ALT. She easily earned the cash for the the tech 1 modules by courier missions- she has no mining skills. She did it without a single isk or BPO from my main. The same industrial they give you for free in the indy path tutorial will work for running courier missions all the way up to level 4's.

While training the skills, the new player can max copy those module BPOs to sell to the tech 2 manufacturers, and at a profit. Buying the BPO from someone who has already well researched it so you don't have to bake it yourself is another way to go. (T2 invention doesn't need perfect sub T1 BPCs, just max run BPCs- any newbie with a fresh BPO can do that). They can choose to mine to remove the markup that comes with buying minerals on the market, but that takes time out of the skill plan. They can put up buy orders, and it not take much in the way of trade skill training. The cash for that start is also earned by courier missions.

The fact that you think T1 is "sterile" (I'm guessing you mean profitless) shows you are not an industrial manufacturing player at all. By "mathematical fact" you mean you are guessing, or because you looked up a mod or 2, then all must be bad. You are the reason I make cash on those mods. Any industrial oriented new player can make cash in industry.

In before the "but there's no slots in Jita". I make and sell in the back end of the empire, and make nice cash doing so. Any new player can learn to do the same, if they are industry oriented.

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse [lady of commercial virtue]. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.- James Nicoll
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#55 - 2012-12-14 01:33:25 UTC
Torak Dakos wrote:
i fail to see the problem. there are alot of pilots that enjoy highsec, why take that away for it? if you like lawless space you have that avaliable, why limite ppls choices.

And if ppl sell stuff under production price just buy it and sell for profit? how hard is that.

do you really believe it will be for the greater good of the game to deprive a VERY large part of the userbase from what they love?



A: Categorize thread.

B: Search premade answer.

C: ???

D: Profit!


No, youre doin it wrong, try readin the OP
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#56 - 2012-12-14 01:35:46 UTC
Sarmea Moon wrote:
I say again, the "perfect skillset" doesn't take long to train. I DID IT WITH A NEW ALT. She easily earned the cash for the the tech 1 modules by courier missions- she has no mining skills. She did it without a single isk or BPO from my main. The same industrial they give you for free in the indy path tutorial will work for running courier missions all the way up to level 4's.

While training the skills, the new player can max copy those module BPOs to sell to the tech 2 manufacturers, and at a profit. Buying the BPO from someone who has already well researched it so you don't have to bake it yourself is another way to go. (T2 invention doesn't need perfect sub T1 BPCs, just max run BPCs- any newbie with a fresh BPO can do that). They can choose to mine to remove the markup that comes with buying minerals on the market, but that takes time out of the skill plan. They can put up buy orders, and it not take much in the way of trade skill training. The cash for that start is also earned by courier missions.

The fact that you think T1 is "sterile" (I'm guessing you mean profitless) shows you are not an industrial manufacturing player at all. By "mathematical fact" you mean you are guessing, or because you looked up a mod or 2, then all must be bad. You are the reason I make cash on those mods. Any industrial oriented new player can make cash in industry.

In before the "but there's no slots in Jita". I make and sell in the back end of the empire, and make nice cash doing so. Any new player can learn to do the same, if they are industry oriented.



Researching, copyin, new player, no POS, mmmmmmmmmmkey.
Sarmea Moon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-12-14 01:37:56 UTC
Got 4 baking right now. You know if you leave Jita there are slots available with only a short wait, right?

Obviously not.

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse [lady of commercial virtue]. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.- James Nicoll
Phil Da Agony
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#58 - 2012-12-14 01:41:05 UTC
Sarmea Moon wrote:
Got 4 baking right now. You know if you leave Jita there are slots available with only a short wait, right?

Obviously not.



Define short wait please, are 10 days a short wait? or even 5? No, thats not a short wait.

Anyway I didnt opened this thread to argue with some "industrial minded" individual about whether is profitable or what is not
Pitrolo Orti
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-12-14 01:42:04 UTC
Null / Low sec crybabies are as bad as the high sec crybabies...you are no paying the account of each eve player. Let people play however they like...this kind of posts are annoying....I do get annoyed sometimes by miners or space truckers...but if that is that how they like to play let them do...no way is right to play... BTW I have not read your whole pos post

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#60 - 2012-12-14 01:43:29 UTC
Joey Bagadonuts is that you?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!