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Faction Frigates but no Destroyers in Novice Plexes?

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Alseryl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-12-13 11:31:14 UTC
George Boothe wrote:


So what if they need a special setup and planning to be killed? Why do you feel entitled to be able to 1v1 a frig that costs 10-20 times more than a t1 frig? Are you saying DDs are only expensive because they are rare and that it has nothing to do with how good they are? The fact is, they can be killed by good planning without the need for a higher isk investment for the killer.
I do not see how the DD is OVERpowered, it is a powerful ship, but for the same price you can get a fleet that can crush the daredevil. If you are to stupid to plan ahead for a kill and just want instant gratification, go play some egoshooter.


DD is OVERpowered against T1 frigs. I could bring a fleet and kill it, but instead I would do some upper level plexes though. 3 - 4 T1 frigs could make it against destroyers and T2 frigs as well.
The point here is to let pass the acceleration gate to only what will be almost a fair match in an 1 vs 1.
If we drop this assumption then let pass battleships, I could always get a fleet of 40 T1 frigs... :)
Mnemosyne Gloob
#82 - 2012-12-13 11:52:44 UTC
Just fit stabs, like many of your kind. *hides*

[edit] next thing there will be novice-novice plexes, where only noobships can go in...
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#83 - 2012-12-13 15:22:40 UTC
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.
Alseryl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-12-13 16:01:07 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


Yeah... how?

Firetail's best property is dictate range... how do you dictate range with 10% of your speed... maybe if the DD pilot is afk.
Please don't be the "it's possibile" guy... 99% of times the DD will **** the FT.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#85 - 2012-12-13 16:05:37 UTC
1/10
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.

nom nom
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#86 - 2012-12-13 16:07:06 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


A noobship can also kill a Daredevil if the Daredevil pilot is AFK or very stupid.
In practice a Firetail will die to a Daredavil in 98% of cases. In 1% of cases it will force the Daredavil to disengange... and the remaining 1% are the already above mentioned case of AFK/stupid Daredevil pilot.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#87 - 2012-12-13 19:24:37 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


A noobship can also kill a Daredevil if the Daredevil pilot is AFK or very stupid.
In practice a Firetail will die to a Daredavil in 98% of cases. In 1% of cases it will force the Daredavil to disengange... and the remaining 1% are the already above mentioned case of AFK/stupid Daredevil pilot.


Like a Jaguar and his 7 buddies should be able to kill a single Harpy, right Meditril? Your wreck disagrees. As does this link: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13498657

Seriously, just stop posting! You are terrible at pvp, you can not give good advices, all you do is encourage hiding away and coming back with superior numbers, no one needs advice for doing that.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#88 - 2012-12-13 19:34:26 UTC
Shitfit DD is shitfit

mah condor could of killed that

Zoe Panala wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


A noobship can also kill a Daredevil if the Daredevil pilot is AFK or very stupid.
In practice a Firetail will die to a Daredavil in 98% of cases. In 1% of cases it will force the Daredavil to disengange... and the remaining 1% are the already above mentioned case of AFK/stupid Daredevil pilot.


Like a Jaguar and his 7 buddies should be able to kill a single Harpy, right Meditril? Your wreck disagrees. As does this link: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13498657

Seriously, just stop posting! You are terrible at pvp, you can not give good advices, all you do is encourage hiding away and coming back with superior numbers, no one needs advice for doing that.

nom nom
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#89 - 2012-12-13 19:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zen Guerrilla
Zoe Panala wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


A noobship can also kill a Daredevil if the Daredevil pilot is AFK or very stupid.
In practice a Firetail will die to a Daredavil in 98% of cases. In 1% of cases it will force the Daredavil to disengange... and the remaining 1% are the already above mentioned case of AFK/stupid Daredevil pilot.


Like a Jaguar and his 7 buddies should be able to kill a single Harpy, right Meditril? Your wreck disagrees. As does this link: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13498657

Seriously, just stop posting! You are terrible at pvp, you can not give good advices, all you do is encourage hiding away and coming back with superior numbers, no one needs advice for doing that.

You're trying too hard. Get out.


And on topic:

DScan is your friend. You see a faction frig that you can't fight in a normal T1 frig, there's plenty of plexes elsewhere.

Before the patch, destroyers were king. Now it's faction frigs. But now there's at least some risk involved. Because losing a faction frig will actually hurt your wallet. And that's fine with me.

People camping novice plex warpins in DDs are bad and should feel bad but who am i to stop them? They don't want goodfights, they won't get goodfights. Who cares.

And if you really want that DD kill, outsmart him. Fit a few gallente jams and make him cry. Get a kitey condor and pray he won't catch you when you land. Be creative, there's always a way.

pew pew
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#90 - 2012-12-14 02:22:31 UTC
DD's are a powerfull ship granted but they are not all powerfull.

I have killed them with a tormentor that I was sitting on the warpin with ready.

Also remember that the skill of the player drastically affects the outcome of a fight that 'should' be one sided. If you get a well skills toon in a well fitted ship and the player knows what they are doing then it'll be a good fight regardless.

I for one don't shy away from a fight in a plex just cos there is a DD or anything else for that matter as ship hull is just on of many variabel that can decide the outcome of a fight.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
roigon
TURN LEFT
#91 - 2012-12-14 06:29:07 UTC
I agree with Zen. If you don' t think you can take a fight, then don' t take it.

Target selection is part of PvP. Know the limits of your ship and if you don' t want to risk your ship don't engage what you probably can' t take.

Even better. Fit something specifically for taking on firetails and try it out. Having absolute range control is spiffy, but if you hit them harder/tank them better in their full web range then that doesn't do them much good. Sure they have that GTFO ability because of it. But frigate fights are generally pretty fast and by the time they realize they should GTFO it might already be too late.

Antares 04
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-12-14 06:42:48 UTC
George Boothe wrote:

So what if they need a special setup and planning to be killed? Why do you feel entitled to be able to 1v1 a frig that costs 10-20 times more than a t1 frig? Are you saying DDs are only expensive because they are rare and that it has nothing to do with how good they are? The fact is, they can be killed by good planning without the need for a higher isk investment for the killer.
I do not see how the DD is OVERpowered, it is a powerful ship, but for the same price you can get a fleet that can crush the daredevil. If you are to stupid to plan ahead for a kill and just want instant gratification, go play some egoshooter.


They are expensive, because they are not easy to get and very popular. Hookbills are polular too, but thsoe are far easier to get through the FW LP store, so they cost considerably less. T1 is also rather popular and it's very cheap because players can mass-produce them in huge numbers.

Yes, DD's and other pirate frigates CAN be killed by a T1 frig, but let's face it - the odds are abysmally low BECAUSE the pirate frigates are so good, and any half-way competent pirate frig pilot will know what they can't engage with a clear win in sight - ergo they will avoid these situations exactly because their ships is so rare and expensive, amking it hard and costly to replace.

So what if good planning can kill them? It will usually require superior numbers, and like I said, anything that can obviously do them in will be ignored.
Antares 04
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-12-14 06:46:23 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


A noobship can also kill a Daredevil if the Daredevil pilot is AFK or very stupid.
In practice a Firetail will die to a Daredavil in 98% of cases. In 1% of cases it will force the Daredavil to disengange... and the remaining 1% are the already above mentioned case of AFK/stupid Daredevil pilot.


Like a Jaguar and his 7 buddies should be able to kill a single Harpy, right Meditril? Your wreck disagrees. As does this link: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13498657

Seriously, just stop posting! You are terrible at pvp, you can not give good advices, all you do is encourage hiding away and coming back with superior numbers, no one needs advice for doing that.


"You are not performing to the specifications I have set and therefore it's my opinion that you should give up and go away."

Noted. I'll take this into consideration when you are CCP staff and dictate game rules and get this little gem legalized.

Until then I'd go with ignoring you.
Alseryl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-12-14 09:56:46 UTC
I think here we're getting out of the question... novice plexes are named like that for a reason, and Daredevils, Dramiel etc are not novice ships.

But things are not going to change, so it is just another thing that will discourage new players' pvp.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#95 - 2012-12-14 16:09:48 UTC
I would be cool with it, but if they are going to disallow pirate frigs you need to disallow faction as well. Without Drams and DDs hookbills would just take over. Remove them both and novice plexes will become much more new player friendly.

Alseryl wrote:
I think here we're getting out of the question... novice plexes are named like that for a reason, and Daredevils, Dramiel etc are not novice ships.

But things are not going to change, so it is just another thing that will discourage new players' pvp.

nom nom
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#96 - 2012-12-14 17:16:06 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Shitfit DD is shitfit

mah condor could of killed that

Zoe Panala wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Zoe Panala wrote:
Maybe you should stop being stupid, a Firetail can kill a Daredevil.


A noobship can also kill a Daredevil if the Daredevil pilot is AFK or very stupid.
In practice a Firetail will die to a Daredavil in 98% of cases. In 1% of cases it will force the Daredavil to disengange... and the remaining 1% are the already above mentioned case of AFK/stupid Daredevil pilot.


Like a Jaguar and his 7 buddies should be able to kill a single Harpy, right Meditril? Your wreck disagrees. As does this link: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13498657

Seriously, just stop posting! You are terrible at pvp, you can not give good advices, all you do is encourage hiding away and coming back with superior numbers, no one needs advice for doing that.



The Blobcat Condor always wins!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2wRYm89Vq4#t=01m44s
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#97 - 2012-12-14 17:41:29 UTC
But if we removed faction frigs (both Navy and Pirate) then we'd have another issue after a while: "Let's get rid of Attack Frigates in novice plexes, they're too strong compared to the others!" It's a slippery slope guys, I just find it laughable that this conversation is happening in the first place. In the entirety of my roaming about the Cal/Gal area I have ran into a Daredevil once. Once. And it was on a gate moving (Making me sad that my Corax could not be tested properly). And yeah, it's been that recent when I first saw one in the area.

Right now it's mostly Hookbills, Merlins, Incursus, and the occasional random in between. On occasion I'll see a Comet or two but they run from even my Condor.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#98 - 2012-12-17 16:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Princess Nexxala wrote:
I would be cool with it, but if they are going to disallow pirate frigs you need to disallow faction as well. Without Drams and DDs hookbills would just take over. Remove them both and novice plexes will become much more new player friendly.
The difference between pirate and empire faction frigs is that the noobs have easy access to the empire faction frigs through the FW LP store.