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Level 4 Mission Setup Help
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Viktor VonCarstein
Iron Warriors
#1 - 2012-12-12 15:25:17 UTC
Dear Eve Community,

I have recently returned to Eve after a very long time away from the game.

During my time away I kept my 2 accounts active and training skills however, as a result my wallet is almost empty on both accounts, I have almost no assets except what is detailed below and I need to earn some isk to fund any future pvp activities.

On returning I have found my corp dead so initially I am going to have to do this solo.

I have decided to run some level 4 missions however, on doing research in the missions part of the forum I see there are some significant changes and level 4 missions are now potentially much harder. Combined with my very out of date knowledge of ships and modules this could be disastrous so I have come here seeking advice on some ship fittings.

I do not have the isk to buy expensive officer / deadspace modules.
I have maximum fitting skills on both accounts.
I am looking for the safest configuration to start with rather than the fastest.
I run Amarr Navy Missions.

My intention is to run a single mission with both accounts simultaneously on 2 separate monitors.

My main account is trained only in Amarr ships and appropriate modules.

He has a Paladin which I have never used and is not fitted my suggestion is

High
4 x Tachyon II
2 x Small Tractor Beam II
1 x Salvager II

Med
3 x Cap Recharger II
1 x Webifier II

Low
1 x LAR II
1 x EANM II
1 x Damage Control II
4 x Rat Specific Hardeners II

Rigs
1 x CCC II
1 x Auxiliary Nano Pump II

T2 light drones to suit rat type

Needs a 3% PG implant.

The aim here being the Paladin will be first into the room with cap stable strong tank

My alt account is trained only in Caldari ships and appropriate modules.

He has a Raven in the hanger and some modules to go with it. My suggestion is

High
6 x Cruise Missile Launcher II
2 x Large Remote Repper (not really sure what else to put here as my gunnery skills are weak small rails?)

Med
1 x Caldari Navy X Large Shield Booster
1 x Shield Boost Amp II
4 x Rat Specific Hardeners II

Low
3 x Power Diagnostic II
1 x Ballistic Control II
1 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control II

Rigs
3 x CCC

T2 light drones to suit rat type.

The Raven will be second into the room to provide extra dps but keeping a strong tank in case rats switch target and for new spawns. My worry is the tank is only sustainable for 2 minutes without remote reppers running.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Many thanks


Vik
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-12 16:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Dual Boxing with a Marauder & regular BS you are going to have no issue at all with L4's

For fits there are these 2 suggestions at battleclinic, if you dont like them there are others aswell

Paladin
Raven

Just replace any Faction/Officer Mods with thier T2 equivalents, and the fit should still be good for your purposes.
At some point you might want to upgrade to the Navy Raven aswell.

It also might be an idea to look for a new, more active, corp as mission running alone can get a little boring.



wb & have fun.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-12 20:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
firstly, the fits in the post above me are far from optimal.

secondly, you should not listen to the crybabies in MC; most of them do not know what they are talking about. there were only a very few missions that challenged your tank and todays patch nerfed them back to where they were before retribution (i did not confirm it myself though).

as it stands, you can easily run any lvl4 with two battleships as long as you watch triggers etc. the only change is that now, you have to watch yuor drones more closely because npc frigates will often switch on them and try to kill them. the bigger ships will likely swap between your ships too, so both should have a reasonable local tank. ~400-500 effective rep/sec for 3-4 minutes will get you through any mission easily. try to get there with as little slots as possible and invest the rest in DPS and damage application.

edit: here are some solid mission builds for amarr space:

[Raven, cheap]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


[Paladin, cheap]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

I should buy an Ishtar.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-12-12 21:26:09 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

firstly, the fits in the post above me are far from optimal.



firstly, they aren't my fits
they are battleclinic fits with the highest +ratings

if your only objection is the frequency of 'Faction Mods' then I already said use T2 instead and you'll still be just fine.
but I can only speculate as to why you have made that ascertion, as you failed to explain it.


the links were provided so that the OP can have a browse of other fits in a location where many fitting suggestions are made and commented upon, frequently the comments can be applied to improve a fit or slightly change it's intended role.

cheap 'starter' fits are fine, but people dont use them exclusively, they progress and having info on that progression is a damn sight useful to many people.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-12 21:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
are you trolling or just incredibly stupid? the paladin fit is a pvp buffer fit. the raven fit has no rigor rigs and the navy raven fit would be completely undertanked if you switched to t2 modules. also, OP was not asking for an opportunity to browse thousands of (mostly horrible) fits or read through pages of comments, so your answer was barely relevant.

P.S.: 'assertion' is not written with a 'c'

I should buy an Ishtar.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-12-12 22:48:18 UTC
There's a distinct lack of damage mods on those two ships. Has mission damage gone up that much?
Zaq Phelps
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-13 12:30:38 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

firstly, the fits in the post above me are far from optimal.



firstly, they aren't my fits
they are battleclinic fits with the highest +ratings

if your only objection is the frequency of 'Faction Mods' then I already said use T2 instead and you'll still be just fine.
but I can only speculate as to why you have made that ascertion, as you failed to explain it.


the links were provided so that the OP can have a browse of other fits in a location where many fitting suggestions are made and commented upon, frequently the comments can be applied to improve a fit or slightly change it's intended role.

cheap 'starter' fits are fine, but people dont use them exclusively, they progress and having info on that progression is a damn sight useful to many people.


I can't comment on the paladin fit, but permaboost ravens are outdated (especially with the drone changes). Rigored cruise ravens are considered the optimal setup nowadays to allow the dps generated to be better applied to the target while maintaining a cap boosted high resist tank until the dps dies down.
Viktor VonCarstein
Iron Warriors
#8 - 2012-12-13 12:45:55 UTC
I would like to thank everyone so far for their responses.

I like the raven fit posted so I will adopt that. I understand the paladin fit suggested is more optimal however, I absolutely cannot afford to lose either of these ships at the moment as I have essentially returned to the game with no assets and no isk hence the abundance of tank mods and lack of damage mods on my original setups. As I get more comfortable with missions and the game again my intention will be to move to more optimal solutions.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#9 - 2012-12-13 14:22:51 UTC
I would suggest running a few L2 and L3 missions in cheaper ships to get your space legs back. I would guess there is a 50/50 chance you will lose a ship in one of your first 6 missions back...

With the paladin fits, I don't really like the rig choices shown. The battleclinic fit has trimarks, which are not PVE. The paladin should have enough cap that you don't need the CCC rig. With my mission Kronos, I believe I have nano pump (tank) and collision accelerator (damage) rigs. You also don't need all those resists in the lows, especially if you dual box. Soloing L4s, I can usually afford 2 to 3 damage mods in the lows. I only use T2 modules - no faction or officer gear. you should also dump the web and fit a tracking computer instead. Use drones to take out the frigates.
Chav Queen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-12-13 16:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Chav Queen
Navy apoc or a CNR are just as good as a marauder and less than half the price.
I would run missions in sansha space using the apoc.

Highs Mega pulse 2s
Mids Cap recharger 2s
Lows 2 EM hardners , 2 thermal, 2 heat sinks 2 large armour reps.

Easy to fit easy to use good range and does not attract much attention.
Lasers with t1 crystals incur no ammo cost whatsoever. Keep a set of scortch in the cargo for the odd ship that stays out at max range.

If you must use a raven I would not go with a cap booster.
Use a boost amp and some power diags in the lows with 3 Cap rigs.
stacking more than 3 BCUs is a waste you get so little return.
Mund Richard
#11 - 2012-12-13 19:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Chav Queen wrote:
If you must use a raven I would not go with a cap booster.
Use a boost amp and some power diags in the lows with 3 Cap rigs.
stacking more than 3 BCUs is a waste you get so little return.

I would, and tripple rigor rigs. Also, personally I dislike resistance rigs.
I have 4 BCUs on my CNR as well, but 3 of those are CN, and even so the 4th one adds less than 50 extra dps, so I guess it's somewhat negible. DC for when it gets really sticky?
Considered a Target Painter, or would the tank be too thin?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Viktor VonCarstein
Iron Warriors
#12 - 2012-12-13 21:29:39 UTC
Again many thanks for your help.

With the raven I think I am going to go witht he following taking into account what is said so far,

High
6 x Cruise Missile II
2 x 125mm Railgun II

Mid
1 x XL Shield Booster II
1 x Shield Boost Amp II
3 x Shield Hardener
1 x Heavy Electrochemical Cap Booster

Low
3 x BCU II (not convinced on 4th BCU with stacking penalty)
1 x Co Pro II
1 x Internal Force Field Array

Rigs
2 x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst
1 x Large Warhead Flare Catalyst


With the Paladin I already own it and the rigs are already fitted I did it for some reason before I took the break so would either have to destroy the rigs or sell the ship with it. In this case I think I might as well use it and surely it is better than a standard Apoc ?

I will ditch the web for a Tracking Computer.
I will certainly drop the EANM for a heat sink II and maybe the damage control as well.

Mega Pulse II Apoc was also mentioned with that said given that it will be paired with a Raven should I go with Tachyons or Mega Pulse? certainly there is no fitting issue with either and I have equal skills with pulse and beams.

I am going with a raven for my alt because I own one already and my alt can only fly Caldari and is only highly skilled in missiles.

I don't own any other ships to be able to run other level 2 and 3 missions unless I fit heavy missiles and cruiser sized guns to the battleships of course.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-12-13 22:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
tachs are cool because you can get very good range even with navy multifrequency. on the other hand, pulses with scorch will also reach out to 50-60km and have better tracking. regarding as how you still have the second ship for targets that are far away, you should probably go with pulses.

edit: in your raven fit, you basically sacrificed a BCU for a flare rig. i'm not 100% certain and too lazy to check but my guess would be that a bcu will get you more effective dps and if you insist on the rig, a third rigor would be better than a flare. like i said, just a gut feeling, you should prob. check it for yourself.

P.S.: if i were you, i wouldn't waste so much time on the perfect fits but get out there and start making money ;)

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zaq Phelps
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-14 01:51:31 UTC
Chav Queen wrote:


If you must use a raven I would not go with a cap booster.
Use a boost amp and some power diags in the lows with 3 Cap rigs.
stacking more than 3 BCUs is a waste you get so little return.


The nice thing about using a cap booster is you can save your rig slots for rigors/flares which causes the raw dps you generate to be better applied to the target. This is especially important since drones are now a bit harder to manage in PVE. If you have a high resist setup, with a high outgoing dps you don't need a solid 500 dps tank for the entire mission. You need a high tank for a short amount of time and then the rest is mitigated by buffer and passive recharge (when you're down to mostly cruisers and frigates).

On the BCU's, usually once you get to the point where you are buying up navy mods and you have high enough skills, you no longer need a DCU to maintain a sufficient tank. Once that is the case, then it's a matter of choice. Keep the ship overtanked, add another random helpful mod, or add 40-50 dps. With the advent of drone damage mods, you might actually be better to add one of those instead (since they don't stack with the BCU's).

To the OP: I like those 125mm rails. I hadn't though of those as an OS*&^ moment for picking off orbiting frigs.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#15 - 2012-12-14 16:55:28 UTC
Viktor VonCarstein wrote:

With the Paladin I already own it and the rigs are already fitted I did it for some reason before I took the break so would either have to destroy the rigs or sell the ship with it. In this case I think I might as well use it and surely it is better than a standard Apoc ?

I will ditch the web for a Tracking Computer.
I will certainly drop the EANM for a heat sink II and maybe the damage control as well.

With the tracking computer, make sure to swap out the tracking and range scripts

With lows, I typically have a core of DCU II, LAR II, EANM II. The other slots are a mix of rat-specific hardeners and damage mods that change with rat type. Sometimes the EANM is swapped out when the rat plays to the baseline strength of my tank. If not your first, your second "damage" mod should be a tracking enhancer IMO. More damage doesn't help if you cannot hit the target. This really helps when the cruisers start to get in close or you have a mission where you warp in at point blank range.
Viktor VonCarstein
Iron Warriors
#16 - 2012-12-15 10:37:07 UTC
Just as an update ran 2 missions last night as a Paladin / Raven pair blitzed both missions very fast and no drones lost.

Rats never switched target BS except on spawns. Drones were not targeted when deploying and recalling.

First mission was Massive Attack Sansha.

Second mission was Angel Extravaganza including bonus room.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Ship fits used as follows

Raven

High
6 x Cruise Missile launcher II (T1 Ammo)
2 x 125mm Railgun II (T2 Ammo)

Mid
XL Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amp II
Heavy Electrochemical Cap Booster (800's) - never had to use this so far
2 x EM Ward II
Thermic Dissipation II (3 x Invulnerability Field II for Angel Extravaganza)

Low
3 x BCU II
Co Pro II
Internal Forcefield Array

Rigs
3 x Warhead Rigor Catalyst

Paladin

High
4 x Mega Pulse II (T1 Ammo though had Scorch didn't need it)
2 x Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Mid
3 x Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II (both scripts carried)

Low
LAR II
4 x Rat Specific Hardener II
2 x Heat Sink II (Dropped 1 Heat Sink for an Additional Hardener for Angel Ex Bonus Room)

Rigs
CCC
Auxiliary Nano Pump

Paladin was able to tank whole room aggro in bonus room easily.

Elite frigs dropped fast as had 10 x Hobgoblin II's on them though most popped at range.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-12-15 11:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
To be honest you are overtanking your Paladin, invest in deadspace tank and you will only need 2 slots for hardeners and 1 for repper, rest are heatsinks or a combination of heatsinks/ 1 TE(or a cap module like me)

You will be melting things so fast you'll wonder why you are even dual boxing with a raven.

I fly solo and i never had tank related issues(well, apart from when there was full room aggro bug in WC angel pocket but it's fixed now and its solid).

Tach fit

Pulse fit

If you REALLY REALLY want to melt face but not be cap stable

That pulse fit + web lets you pop orbiting frigates at 3km :)
Kikusama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-12-16 01:48:57 UTC
Viktor VonCarstein wrote:
I absolutely cannot afford to lose either of these ships at the moment as I have essentially returned to the game with no assets and no isk hence the abundance of tank mods and lack of damage mods on my original setups. As I get more comfortable with missions and the game again my intention will be to move to more optimal solutions.



In my opinion, if you can't afford to lose those ships, don't fly them.

Sell the Paladin and buy a Navy Apoc or a Navy Geddon. Or, better yet, get a vanilla geddon or apoc. Fit it. Use the rest of the ISK as buffer should you lose your ship.

Guns make the news. Science doesn't.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-16 15:33:30 UTC
Kikusama wrote:
Viktor VonCarstein wrote:
I absolutely cannot afford to lose either of these ships at the moment as I have essentially returned to the game with no assets and no isk hence the abundance of tank mods and lack of damage mods on my original setups. As I get more comfortable with missions and the game again my intention will be to move to more optimal solutions.



In my opinion, if you can't afford to lose those ships, don't fly them.

Sell the Paladin and buy a Navy Apoc or a Navy Geddon. Or, better yet, get a vanilla geddon or apoc. Fit it. Use the rest of the ISK as buffer should you lose your ship.


Why on earth would you downgrade.....
Its not like he is flying it in low or 0.0 or something, i say sell the raven and get yourself some shiny tank for paladin and just focus on 1 account.