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Another racial BC question (Hypothetical)
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Miranda Ctan
Radex Solutions
#1 - 2012-12-13 17:16:05 UTC
So, it is possible to have the current Battlecruiser skill trained without training any of the racial Cruiser skills as the only prerequisite for the skill is Spaceship Command IV.

If a character were to have BC V trained and all racial cruisers at 0, they would not be able to actually use any of the Battlecruiser ships.

Post-patch, whenever it may be, what would happen to this skill? Does it just poof? Is it refunded?

Again, this is a hypothetical question. I am fully aware of the requirements to get the racial BC skills, but I am curious what happens if you have NONE of the requirements to get even one of them.
Belthazor4011
Battle BV Redux
#2 - 2012-12-13 17:52:37 UTC
Refunded most likely, then again the book hold almost no value. So who would care? Shocked
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#3 - 2012-12-13 17:53:33 UTC
They will most like be lost. The and the person who does that does also deserve to lose every single of the SPs.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Miranda Ctan
Radex Solutions
#4 - 2012-12-13 18:26:53 UTC
Belthazor4011 wrote:
Refunded most likely, then again the book hold almost no value. So who would care? Shocked



SP refund, not ISK
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-13 18:47:51 UTC
Have they mentioned when the skill changes are happening and what the exact details are?
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-12-13 19:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: bubble trout
"As announced at the beginning of the year, skill requirements will be modified when we are done overhauling tech1 battlecruisers and battleships. "

"Yes comrades, battlecruisers are indeed next to get through the tiericide revolution."


"Let us repeat again: if you could fly it before, you will be able to do so after the change. Technically it means if you are able to fly an Oracle by having Amarr Cruisers 3 and Battlecruisers 3, we will remove the Battlecruisers skill from your character and give you Amarr Battlecruisers at 3. "



"With this in mind, it becomes quite obvious to focus on training the Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills before the change to get the maximum return effect. We highly recommend you start doing so now."



Underlined emphasis mine, bold emphasis CCP Ytterbium.

So maybe next year/next expansion, OR maybe the last patch in retribution OR Soon*. Although when the devs say "Start training this skill now for maximum benefit" it kinda hints at a late retribution patch, like the T1 attack frigs in inferno 1.2, or crucible 1.2/1.5 with the assualt frigs and rookie ships.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-13 19:31:58 UTC
another hypothetical, what if i have amarr cruiser 4 and battlecruisers 5? will i be able to fly the amarr cs? or will i get the amarr bc at 4? the given example at 3/3 doesnt answer this question. It does not show which skill is given priority in sp transfer.

The new amarr cs will have only the battlecruiser and not the cruiser skill required at 5. so i will be able to fly new ships in the patch? or i have to have amarr cruiser 5 before the patch not to lose out on having to train amarr battlecruiser 5?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#8 - 2012-12-13 19:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Kusum Fawn wrote:
another hypothetical, what if i have amarr cruiser 4 and battlecruisers 5? will i be able to fly the amarr cs? or will i get the amarr bc at 4? the given example at 3/3 doesnt answer this question. It does not show which skill is given priority in sp transfer.

The new amarr cs will have only the battlecruiser and not the cruiser skill required at 5. so i will be able to fly new ships in the patch? or i have to have amarr cruiser 5 before the patch not to lose out on having to train amarr battlecruiser 5?


You can't fly command ships without cruiser 5.

-Liang

Ed: If they actually change that to be only based on BC I'd be really really surprised.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-13 19:43:54 UTC
from the dev blog reply thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=908403#post908403

-> Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

the main question was towards which skill got preference to battlecruiser 5, or if i will recieve amarr bc 5 having only amarr c4

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2012-12-13 20:25:19 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
from the dev blog reply thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=908403#post908403

-> Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

the main question was towards which skill got preference to battlecruiser 5, or if i will recieve amarr bc 5 having only amarr c4

My understanding is the racial cruiser skill is just the prerequisite. The prerequisite for the new racial batllecruiser will actually be cruiser 4 but as long as you have it to 3 the current prerequisite for the racial BC ship you will be granted the racial BC skill at the level you had the generic skill.

If you had the generic battlecruiser skill at 5 you will get the racial battlecruiser skill at 5 for every race you trained cruiser to at least 3. This is because if you had the racial cruiser skill to 3 you could fly that races BC's even if you never did you still could if you wanted to.

Since you will be able to fly it after if you could fly it before we know that you will get the racial battlecruiser skill with cruisers at 3 even though cruiser 4 will be the new prerequisite for the new racial BC skill. If you have BC skill at 5 you do not need the racial cruiser skill at 5 to get racial BC granted at 5. You do not even need the racial cruiser skill to 4 as it is currently only required at 3 to fly the ship.

I am 100% sure it is the level of the battlecruiser skill that will carry over to the new racial skill. It is that level that opens up the higher tier ships and controls the bonuses per level the ships grant. Training the racial cruiser skill past 3 grants no bonuses to the battlecruisers so it would make no sense to use the level of that skill as a baseline.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2012-12-13 20:26:03 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
from the dev blog reply thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=908403#post908403

-> Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4.

the main question was towards which skill got preference to battlecruiser 5, or if i will recieve amarr bc 5 having only amarr c4


Huh, I must have missed that. Thanks!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-13 20:30:29 UTC
That was my thought, i just wanted to run it by the forums before i started buying amarr cs.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2012-12-13 20:46:06 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
another hypothetical, what if i have amarr cruiser 4 and battlecruisers 5? will i be able to fly the amarr cs? or will i get the amarr bc at 4?
You will get Amarr BC V. The cruiser skill only matters in so far as you need it at III to get the corresponding BC skill at all, but it makes absolutely no difference in terms of what level you'll be given in that skill.

Thus, if you have the CS skill trained, you'll be able to fly Amarr command ships.

Command ships in general will be massively simplified when all is said and done. I'll quote my old break-down in one of the earlier threads on the topic. Right now, to fly both types of command ships (types that will most likely be removed or at least completely revamped in the tiercide when it gets around to T2 ships), you need…

[racial] Cruiser V
     [racial] Frigate IV
Command Ships I
     Battlecruisers V
     Warfare Link Specialist IV
          Leadership V
     Spaceship Command V
Heavy Assault Ships IV
     Assault Ships IV
          Engineering V
          Mechanic V
     Weapon Upgrades V
          Gunnery II
Logistics IV
     Signature Analysis V
     Long Range Targeting V
          Electronics II

…and with all the skill changes in place, that list will be reduced to…

[racial] Battlecruiser V
     [racial] Cruiser IV
          [racial] Destroyer IV
               [racial] Frigate IV
Command Ships I
     Warfare Link Specialist IV
          Leadership V
     Spaceship Command V
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-12-13 20:50:28 UTC
I feel like I'm being cheated as an older player that already trained all the cruisers to 5, BCs to 5, HAC to 5, Logi to 5, Recon to 5, CS to 5, etc... why should the new guys get it so much easier? Oh, yeah... "game approachability". Psch, I want to maintain my unnatural lead on everyone else!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Byzan Zwyth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-13 21:09:41 UTC
I must say I'm a bit worried, I'm a big fan of battle cruisers and command ships. I can fly all BC's and all but the Caldari Command ships.

so I understand that if I have say Amarr cruiser V and Battlecruisers V

that I will get Amarr battlecruiser V ?

but what if I have
Galente Cruiser V, Amarr Cruiser V, Min Cruiser V and Caldari Cruiser IV and Battlecruisers V !!

Will I get level V for each racial battlecruiser skill?????1!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#16 - 2012-12-13 21:18:25 UTC
Byzan Zwyth wrote:
I must say I'm a bit worried, I'm a big fan of battle cruisers and command ships. I can fly all BC's and all but the Caldari Command ships.

so I understand that if I have say Amarr cruiser V and Battlecruisers V

that I will get Amarr battlecruiser V ?

but what if I have
Galente Cruiser V, Amarr Cruiser V, Min Cruiser V and Caldari Cruiser IV and Battlecruisers V !!

Will I get level V for each racial battlecruiser skill?????1!


Yeah, you get Gal BC 5, Amarr BC 5, blah blah blah blah. That means I'm getting 4 BC5s when they push this patch out.

As if my clones didn't cost enough already.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2012-12-13 21:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Byzan Zwyth wrote:
but what if I have
Galente Cruiser V, Amarr Cruiser V, Min Cruiser V and Caldari Cruiser IV and Battlecruisers V !!

Will I get level V for each racial battlecruiser skill?????1!

Yes.

In fact, let's add a fifth race to the list just to make the example a bit more clear. Let's say that you had bribed a dev to get the Jove Cruiser skillbook, and you have:

Jove Cruisers I, Amarr Cruisers II, Caldari Cruisers III, Gallente Cruisers IV, Minmatar Cruisers V, and finally Battlecruiser V.

After the change, you would be given:

Caldari Battlecruiser V, Gallente Battlecruiser V, Minmatar Battlecruiser V.

With the skills in this example, you'd miss out on Jove Battlecruisers V and Amarr Battlecruiser V because you don't have those racial cruiser skills trained to III or more. Again, the racial cruiser skill only determines whether or not you get those new BC skills (between 0 and II → no skill for you; III+ → cha-ching). The level of those new BC skills will be exactly the same as your current BC skill level.