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Let the Venture use its 3rd Turret
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#21 - 2012-12-12 22:01:50 UTC
Miyuki Okanata wrote:
I never understand why people are so opposed to change and would rather just put up with an inferior product, and try and comfort themselves with the most ridiculous reasons as to why the status-quo is ok. It's not ok. At all.

Perfection is beauty. The Venture as is stands is mess. It could be perfected as I have described above and become something beautiful, like the original designers intended. So I say again, fix the Venture please, CCP. Now we have the solution (as outlined above in the form of Micro Strip Miners), the debate is over. I would like to thank all contributors for their thoughts. Even though most of them sucked b*lls and weren't helpful or constructive or in any way geared towards finding a solution. P


This is a trainwreck, but I'll try to just respond to this bit.

The status quo is ok. We have a great new mining ship that can do wonderful things to gas. It has just enough gtfo to make it viable in low sec, something partially granted by its utility high slot. If the Venture had three turret slots, it would not have a utility high slot now would it? As such, fitting a cloak would gimp its output.

We don't want that; forcing players to remove a miner (or gas harvester) in order to fit a cloak would mean it could no longer optimally ninja mine (or gas harvest). That would, in fact, reduce the overall appeal of the ship from a gameplay and balance perspective.

As for the aesthetics... meh. I don't care. I really don't. But changing the Venture to allow a third miner would paradoxically reduce its appeal for ninja work, and that would be bad. Capiche?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-12 22:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
You know what? I've changed my mind.
You are right, venture should have 3 turret slots.
While CCP are at it, they really need to give all marauders 7 turret/missile slots cos they have 7 highs. Nightmare should get 6 turret slots, legion should get 8 turret slots, naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots and lastly, i'd like my thrasher to be able to fit 7 capital guns and a siege mod thanks. yup, that would be awesome.

There is no Bob.

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Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-12-12 22:35:45 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Venture is a gas miner. And it does a phenomenal job at it.


^This. Move along.


Can it hold 4250 m3 of gas and tank level 4 mining mission rats? (A couple frigs and the occasional cruiser?)
Indecisive Cid
The Scope
#24 - 2012-12-13 04:57:10 UTC
actually if you look, they are coming from the port side of the ship, with the exception of the top middle one on the bridge, therefore ANY model designer would tell you that structure design as opposed to organic, means lots of symmetry SO.... that should mean, and if you look closely you will actually see, that there are infact even THREE MORE turrets on the starboard side of the ship hahaha, o well, programmers rarely see the designers side of things, as well as animators hahaa


BUT my fav thing about the video is at about 1:24, when the torpedo / missile "drops" from the ship and then continues forward, like a missile from a jet. well, in space it really wouldn't "drop" lol, the reason being... gravity lol

lets say the planet nearby, fine, but have you seen nasa videos, that far from a planet, the gravitational effects are quite diluted from the surface's effects lmao.


... so ya where is our 3rd turret, better yet 7th lol 
IXD
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#25 - 2012-12-13 06:25:28 UTC
Basing your argument on a video showing a Widow not only engaging in solo PvP (Fairly well, more's the issue Roll), but blapping frigates and destroyers with Torps or Cruises and then bridging itself into another system?

Yeah, I'm sure that's all in game, right?

Leave balancing to the experts, and just enjoy the fact that you got a new toy to pester the asteroids with.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-12-13 06:35:41 UTC
I must agree that 4 turrets does sound much better than the current two. Where did CCP bring the Venture up and talk about the details and their plans for it? Did they mention how it fit into the tierification and what kind of plans they had for a mining cruiser? Specifically whether mining frigate would be required to train mining cruiser? Since gas harvesting enables 5, it really makes sense that a gas harvesting ship can support 5 at once.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Lakora Cruor
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-12-13 16:27:49 UTC
Wait the Venture is a mining frig? I thought it was meant as a bait miner. :S Fit it with T2 lasers n scorsh, than go to town with 1mn MWD n Disruptor along with T2 drones...

So what I'm getting is that I'm using teh Venture wrong?

Anyway ontopic while having a utility high is great I don't think anyone would mind having the option of a third "miner"
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#28 - 2012-12-13 16:38:01 UTC
Lakora Cruor wrote:
Anyway ontopic while having a utility high is great I don't think anyone would mind having the option of a third "miner"


Game balance be damned right? Yeah, who wants that?
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#29 - 2012-12-13 16:40:22 UTC
Miyuki Okanata wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Venture is a gas miner. And it does a phenomenal job at it.


^This. Move along.


Nope. Shan't.

As others have said, with the racial frigs being reassigned, the noobs needed this as a ninja miner. I understand it makes a great gas miner too, but we can't neglect the noobs.

Too many people get pulled in by awesome CCP trailers, only to be disappointed when they actually get in-game and find out that 50% of that trailer was bs. That's why they don't subscribe. All I'm saying is fix the Venture - make it like it was originally supposed to be. The noobs need this, and although you vets might not agree, trust me, Eve needs this too.

MO

I totally understand your point, but please show me the person who rage quit and never subscribed because they didn't get the four miners they were 'promised' in the need video.

I was promised a widow that jumps while tackled.

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Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#30 - 2012-12-13 17:32:09 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
Can it hold 4250 m3 of gas...

Yes
Mavnas wrote:
...and tank level 4 mining mission rats? (A couple frigs and the occasional cruiser?)

Probably not (at least if it is actually fit to harvest gas), but running L4 gas harvesting mining missions is hardly the best use of your time with a gas harvesting ship. What it can do, in most situations with an appropriate leve of situational awareness, is skiddadle when a hostile ship shows up to blow it up while harvesting WH or Cyto gas.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Giai Paradox
Phoenix GSOL
#31 - 2012-12-13 17:44:55 UTC
Ugh :( okay, I'm a n00b and I was looking for a pure mining fit for the Venture. Ended up reading all this drama ... I like that ships have high slots which are not turret hard points . . . cloak, salvager, probe ... I don't care, it is what it is and those who come to play Eve will learn how to cope :P

Thanx for no help and a waste of a read . . .not looking forward to anymore whining threads
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#32 - 2012-12-13 18:01:55 UTC
Giai Paradox wrote:
Ugh :( okay, I'm a n00b and I was looking for a pure mining fit for the Venture. Ended up reading all this drama ... I like that ships have high slots which are not turret hard points . . . cloak, salvager, probe ... I don't care, it is what it is and those who come to play Eve will learn how to cope :P

Thanx for no help and a waste of a read . . .not looking forward to anymore whining threads

In all fairness, there's nothing about the title of this post that would indicate it contained fits.

Not that hard really. For a fairly low skill, hi-sec fit:

Highs
- 2x Miner IIs
- Whatever

Mids
-Survey Scanner
-Shield stuff, maybe a prop mod

Lows
-Fitting module if necessary, otherwise MLU

Drones
- Shooty drones for rats

Rigs
Tank or Fitting as necessary

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-12-13 19:24:02 UTC
Paikis wrote:
This ship already has a 100% bonus to mining yield. This means it effectively *HAS* 4 turrets. So this is a visual thing? You want it to look 'cooler' by having 4 lasers? Well, y'see here's the problem...

Miner II
CPU: 80
Power Grid: 4
Uses turret point.

200mm Autocannon II (the largest of the small autocannons)
CPU: 9
Power Grid: 4
Uses a turret point.

You want to allow people to put 4 full-sized small auto cannons onto this thing, and STILL have a pile of CPU and power grid left over. The reason why it has 2 hardpoints and a 100% bonus is to give it the 4 effective mining turrets without allowing it to be one of the best combat frigates in the game.

This ship is intended to be a stepping stone into the mining barges, and the best (just) gas miner. What it is NOT intended to be is an over the top combat frigate just so that it looks a bit better to a few people.

I'm not even going to go through your 'response' to my post, but I mean projection, and I typed projection. You will note that it is quite clearly spelled differently to conjecture. I'm not accusing you of making things up, I'm accusing you of projecting YOUR wants onto the newbies in an attempt to lend your complaint some credibility.

Fly a barge, you're not a newbie.


The point is that gas harvesters want to see the 5 gas harvester skill used on a specialized ship like the Venture. Since the Venture limits the turrets to two but bonuses 100%, the expectation is then that there would be a mining cruiser with 5 turrets bonusing gas havesting 100%. Where is CCP talking about the Venture and any potential tierification work related to gas harvesting specialization ships?

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#34 - 2012-12-13 20:15:20 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
The point is that gas harvesters want to see the 5 gas harvester skill used on a specialized ship like the Venture. Since the Venture limits the turrets to two but bonuses 100%, the expectation is then that there would be a mining cruiser with 5 turrets bonusing gas havesting 100%. Where is CCP talking about the Venture and any potential tierification work related to gas harvesting specialization ships?

I don't see this happening anytime soon. Gas harvesting is pretty niche (drugs and wormholes, the former not well thought out, the latter attractive to a relatively small playerbase). If they changed it so you could run the full synth manufacturing process in hisec and they boosted the effects by 2% or so, the drugs part might change.

While I'm a little annoyed that most of my skill training beyond Gas Harvesting II is now wasted, I'm very pleased that we don't have to put together a frankenship to effectively use gas harvesters and have a decent sized hold.

Ih they ever do this, I imagine they would make one more trip to the Primae/Noctis well.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#35 - 2012-12-14 02:35:31 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
The point is that gas harvesters want to see the 5 gas harvester skill used on a specialized ship like the Venture. Since the Venture limits the turrets to two but bonuses 100%, the expectation is then that there would be a mining cruiser with 5 turrets bonusing gas havesting 100%. Where is CCP talking about the Venture and any potential tierification work related to gas harvesting specialization ships?


Do you have any idea just how good Gas Cloud Harvester IIs are, compared to tech 1? There's your reason to train Gas Cloud Harvesting to V. Not having 5 turrets on it simply means that when you explode it costs you 10mil instead of 25.

Anyone expecting 5x 100% bonused gas miners on a cruiser is delusional, I'm sorry but that's crazy (I'd use it, but still crazy). What you might see is a 10-20% bonus on a cruiser hull.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-12-14 05:20:16 UTC
Yes, please, give it 3rd turret slot. We don't have enough Venture gang kills.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Dave stark
#37 - 2012-12-14 07:14:21 UTC
the ret takes about 7 days to train for, the venture is practically useless as a mining ship if your interest is only in minerals. 0 reason to train mining frig past I.

hence, the venture really is a gas mining ship and practically nothing else.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-12-14 07:46:55 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
You know what? I've changed my mind.
You are right, venture should have 3 turret slots.
While CCP are at it, they really need to give all marauders 7 turret/missile slots cos they have 7 highs. Nightmare should get 6 turret slots, legion should get 8 turret slots, naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots and lastly, i'd like my thrasher to be able to fit 7 capital guns and a siege mod thanks. yup, that would be awesome.

Is it wrong this made my pants tight even if it isn't going to happen?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Matthew97
#39 - 2012-12-14 09:41:05 UTC
If you look at the destroyers, they have space for 8 turrets. Same with the Mach.

CCP Stated during testing that this was deliberate to accomodate any future changes if they deicde "Hey lets give the Mach and extra turret slot" so they don't have to re-design the model

^Same case with the venture
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#40 - 2012-12-14 10:27:59 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots
4 turrets, 4 missile slots, no room for a siege mod, and minmatar... Hmm... LIKE A GOOD OL' NANO PHOON !

I want one.

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