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[Comparison] Dominix Navy Issue - Shield Tank or Armor Tank
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I544CJON35 Aldent
Incursion Omega
Cosmos Origins
#1 - 2012-12-12 23:57:06 UTC
So I was playing around with some armor builds, trying to maximize dmg to tank ratio and thought I would try shields for a new look. This is what I found:

[Dominix Navy Issue, PVE ARMOR]
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Energized Thermic Membrane
Dark Blood Energized Kinetic Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Warden I x5
Garde I x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hammerhead II x5



[Dominix Navy Issue, PVE SHIELD]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay

Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith B-Type Explosive Deflection Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Garde I x5
Warden I x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hammerhead II x5



I had a one question. Should I switch to a shield tank? It has more DPS and tank. The only thing I could think of where it would lack was in close range engagements and the cap doesn't last as long as my armor build.

TLDR - Should I switch to a shield tank?
I544CJON35 Aldent
Incursion Omega
Cosmos Origins
#2 - 2012-12-13 00:01:16 UTC
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-13 03:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Masamune Dekoro
I544CJON35 Aldent wrote:


Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith B-Type Explosive Deflection Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster



Take your hand, apply it very firmly to your face, then run into a wall.

edit: I.e. don't ever tank a shield tank like this.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#4 - 2012-12-13 04:38:52 UTC
Don't omnitank, use gardes + omnidirectional tracking links, and get t2 drones/guns. Your support skills are terrible, and a well flown/fit domi should look more like THIS

In the long run you will get more out of a shield tank than an armor tank, simply because shield tanks need fewer slots and extra damage trumps extra ewar in missions every time.
I544CJON35 Aldent
Incursion Omega
Cosmos Origins
#5 - 2012-12-13 05:02:17 UTC
Masamune Dekoro, that was pretty brutal. Be helpful next time. I found this shield fit as the highest rated tank on battleclinic. It's apparently good for something.

I haven't used the fit. I put on the omni tank to compare with the tank of the armor. I will most definitely fly with mission specific hardeners, every time.
Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-12-13 05:25:28 UTC
How do you plan to hit anything with that shield fit?

Work on your skills, fly a ship appropriate for your sp level and gather more experience about game mechanics and ship fitting in the meantime.
Smark Shardani
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-13 05:50:22 UTC
I544CJON35 Aldent wrote:
I found this shield fit as the highest rated tank on battleclinic. It's apparently good for something


First mistake was taking anything from battleclinic fittings.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#8 - 2012-12-13 06:42:46 UTC
I544CJON35 Aldent wrote:
Masamune Dekoro, that was pretty brutal. Be helpful next time. I found this shield fit as the highest rated tank on battleclinic. It's apparently good for something.

I haven't used the fit. I put on the omni tank to compare with the tank of the armor. I will most definitely fly with mission specific hardeners, every time.


Sometimes when people do this, it's to show that those slots are for hardeners in general, but that you should swap to tank against the missions you'll be running. Similar concept to ECM boats, no sense flying around rainbow fit if you know you'll be fighting a drake blob.
Mund Richard
#9 - 2012-12-13 11:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
I544CJON35 Aldent wrote:
Masamune Dekoro, that was pretty brutal. Be helpful next time. I found this shield fit as the highest rated tank on battleclinic. It's apparently good for something.
Brutal? Yes
Wrong? Not quite.

The armor fit is fairly good, though the rigs might need a looking at:
Sentry rigs are rarely worth it (since DDAs), but that's my private opinion, would rather use a +rep% armor rig, and use +1 DDA.
Rigging a resist is rarely a good idea (unless you explicitly live in angel space, but then just tank shield or use a rattlesnake... and tank shield).
Semiconductor memory cell is rarely better than a cap control circuit (you might get a better time on EFT by a few seconds MAYBE, but the cap regen is better with the CCC, so as soon as you pulse your tank it takes over).

Now as for the shields...
Is a rattlesnake not an option?
Price is barely more, the result with the +2 mids and +5%/BS resistance makes it awesome, at the cost of loosing guns though.
If you stick to the Navy Domi, the 6 slots 2 for omnidirectionals, 1 for a target painter, two hardeners and a gist booster maybe.. oh wait, cap power relays?
You do realize they ruin the active shield tank you have by 10% each?
So go with cap flux coils instead.
Now the tank is a bit light... but the dps gets applied properly (garde IIs hit everything orbiting properly, don't need to swap over to wardens, they also track and hit stuff much-much better).
And same advice on semoconductor vs CCC.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#10 - 2012-12-13 16:06:36 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:

If you stick to the Navy Domi, the 6 slots 2 for omnidirectionals, 1 for a target painter, two hardeners and a gist booster maybe.. oh wait, cap power relays?
You do realize they ruin the active shield tank you have by 10% each?
So go with cap flux coils instead.

1)No TPs on a domi. If it's well fit the cycle time on a single target painter will be longer than the lifespan of anything that isn't a battleship in missions (and if you use drones to blap frigates as they come in you'll never have tracking issues anyway).

2)Cap charging lows are a waste for anything other than the lowest SP characters, but if you're going to spend more than one slot on them then use CPRs instead of CFCs. The penalty is stacking penalized, while the bonuses are not.

3)Tank really isn't an issue in lvl 4s once you get your damage up high enough. I've been messing around with my navy domi a bit and found that in most missions I don't even need to turn the tank on (did serp extravaganza last night and didn't even drop below half shields, without running the booster)
Mund Richard
#11 - 2012-12-14 07:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Cambarus wrote:
1)No TPs on a domi. If it's well fit the cycle time on a single target painter will be longer than the lifespan of anything that isn't a battleship in missions (and if you use drones to blap frigates as they come in you'll never have tracking issues anyway).

1) Oh, it's not to help out with tracking or anything, after the patch I was killing rats with a tracking disruptor, since I had no other EWAR at hand out in null, nor any station nearby...

At least the TP does something, besides working as a Taunt button...

2) I assumed he *is* a low SP toon, if needing advices, and not using T2 sentries.

3) Needs also practice, and need to survive to get that.

Not saying you are wrong, but neither saying my advice was.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
I544CJON35 Aldent
Incursion Omega
Cosmos Origins
#12 - 2012-12-15 06:24:37 UTC
You're right. I have barely reached 11 million sp. Not very much. I'll focus on getting certificates and go from there. Thank you very much for the needed direction.
Mund Richard
#13 - 2012-12-15 10:03:38 UTC
I544CJON35 Aldent wrote:
You're right. I have barely reached 11 million sp. Not very much. I'll focus on getting certificates and go from there. Thank you very much for the needed direction.

Ok, here's a much needed (?) direction:
DON'T !

Some certificates are just silly, compared to the training time they have, and the impact they have on your game.
Take a look at each certificate, consider if you really need that warp drive operation for instance at level V or not in a mission-running battleship, use your head, and decide accordingly.

They are a relatively fair crutch, but the ultimate goal is to fly.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
I544CJON35 Aldent
Incursion Omega
Cosmos Origins
#14 - 2012-12-15 10:25:55 UTC
Haha, well put! The idea was that I would have a path of "stream-lined" progression. The certificate system seemed like it provided this. Also, I apologize for my ignorance on this, but I don't know what skills to focus on really. So, since I feel my current needs are in a bit more tank I'll get Elite Armor tanking since I am only 5 days away. Next I can work through drones / gunnery / core, all as I fly and learn how to play this game most effectively.
Mund Richard
#15 - 2012-12-15 11:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
I544CJON35 Aldent wrote:
Haha, well put! The idea was that I would have a path of "stream-lined" progression. The certificate system seemed like it provided this. Also, I apologize for my ignorance on this, but I don't know what skills to focus on really. So, since I feel my current needs are in a bit more tank I'll get Elite Armor tanking since I am only 5 days away. Next I can work through drones / gunnery / core, all as I fly and learn how to play this game most effectively.
Confusion is not ignorance.

If you fly a domi, look at the skills in a certificate, and consider "Will this help me AT ALL???".
Consider if it helps your fit.
If it helps more, than another skill you could train in the same time.
For instance, Domi has a max locking of 7 targets. Core targeting elite has Multitasking III resulting in 10 targets lockable, which sounds fairly nice: 5 enemy for shooting and 5 sentry for repping. But your ship has a cap of 7, so it won't do you any good.

As a mission runner, what you should focus on are (once blowing up is not a likely scenario):
#1: More gank: The faster you kill, the faster you reap benefits.
#2: More tank: The more tank skills you have, the less tank modules you need, the more gank. See #1
#3: Better "core" skills: The better your skills like targeting and capacitor control, the less time/modules you waste, the more gank. See #1
#4: Some social skills: They let you swap agents more efficient, get standings faster, get LP faster. The more ISK.
Also, running missions exclusively for one faction gets your rep down with the hostiles up to the point where you can no longer enter their market hubs (imagine being barred from Jita, not that it's the end of the world), here you have a skill that lessens that effect.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-12-15 11:56:14 UTC
That omni tank shield fit.... if you are going to omni tank, don't use 4 hardeners, 1 for each damage type... instead, use 2x invuln fields.

As noted, the certificates aren't a really good guide to which skills to get... for example, look at the drone certificates, I think one of the drone certificates wants you to get combat drone operation to lvl 5, but says nothing about drone interfacing....Combat drone operation 5% damage boost per level... drone interfacing, 20% boost per level... needless to say, training the 5% one to lvl 5 is a waste when you don't have interfactng to at least lvl 4

For cap, alternate between cap operation, and cap management, starting with operation
Do the same for shield if you intend to passive tank.

The shield comp skills aren't much use if you use active hardeners (though with proper training, deadspace passive resist amps can be better than T1 active hardeners, and use no cap)

Also, if you are going for PvE, you're probably going to be working for just 1-2 factions at first, you don't need elite levels of armor comp - focus on getting the comp skills to lvl 5 for the damage types you actually go up again (or if going for omni tanks, focus on the weakest resists, ie therm and EM for shield comps, and Exp and kinetic for armor)

The navy Domi is an excellent boat - but make sure to include at least 1 omni tracking link, especially with sentries.
You'll probably also one a drone link augmentor... which sadly does reduce your DPS (although its not so crucial after you have electronic warfare drone interfacing trained up, which can get your drone control range up to 60km)
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#17 - 2012-12-16 01:16:06 UTC
TBH the best way to decide what to train is to fit up a ship in eft, import your skills to it, and fiddle with the skills to see what sort of benefit you gain from training them. Right clicking each mod and changing the skills that affect it and seeing how the tank/dps improves.

That said, as a domi pilot, you will probably want:

Sentry Drones V
T2 large railguns
Energy management/energy systems operation to at least IV
Drone interfacing IV (5 once you have some slightly better allround skills)
Rapid firing V
All the other skills affecting large rails to IV
Gal BS IV

And beyond that it's mostly preference. TBH the tanking skills are few in number and in SP requirements, so you've probably already got most of them, and ignore certs completely; they're useless. All the skills I mentioned earlier should be taken to 5 if you want to stick with the domi longterm (and most of them even if you don't, gal BS and large rails are pretty much the only skills there that won't benefit literally every combat ship you fly)
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-12-16 17:50:47 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Don't omnitank, .


Unless you're fighting sleepers, or mercenaries, or drones, or Worlds Collide, or AE bonus room....

Passive tanks are generally best for gallente drone boats. As others have pointed out, unless you're fighting stuff that deals all 4 damage types, tank to specific resistances. Eve survival will tell you what you need.
Mund Richard
#19 - 2012-12-16 23:06:46 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Passive tanks are generally best for gallente drone boats.
What?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#20 - 2012-12-17 03:15:17 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Don't omnitank, .


Unless you're fighting sleepers, or mercenaries, or drones, or Worlds Collide, or AE bonus room....

Passive tanks are generally best for gallente drone boats. As others have pointed out, unless you're fighting stuff that deals all 4 damage types, tank to specific resistances. Eve survival will tell you what you need.

1)Even missions with omni damage tend to favour one or 2 types above the others, and the ones that don't are few and far between. Don't omnitank.

2)Passive tanks are TERRIBLE. Unless you're doing lvl 5s full of neuts, you should avoid them. This is especially true for gallente ships that tend to get most of their damage from cap-hungry guns. Even the domi gets nearly half its damage from guns, and in using a passive tank you end up using way more slots that result in the ship having **** poor DPS.
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