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Smartbomb rigs and implants
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Malecite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-07 13:42:54 UTC
Why are not any? Would be nice. Something like

T1 rig + 2km range T2 rig +5km range
R1 rig +50% damage T2 rig +100% damage
implants the same
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-12-07 19:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Malecite wrote:
Why are not any? Would be nice. Something like

T1 rig + 2km range T2 rig +5km range
R1 rig +50% damage T2 rig +100% damage
implants the same


Um, this would allow a typical tier 3 battlecruiser to do something like 30,000 alpha damage to everything in a 2 km radius... and to do so twice before CONCORD arrives in medium-sec systems. Without even having to target (so no warning or countermeasures whatsoever, either)

Which, for example would allow you to kill DOZENS of ships in the Jita undock within seconds out of nowhere by successively undocking 3 or 4 BCs in a row and setting them off, at a cost of only about a third of a billion isk...

Or warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with one or two range bonuses and the rest damage and just wiping out everything nearly instantly before anybody can even begin locking targets.

So yeah, those numbers seem way Way WAY off. But the basic concept of rigs/implants are good. I'm thinking more like... +750m t1, +1.5km t2, and +10% damage t1, +20% damage t2
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-07 20:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Malecite wrote:
Why are not any? Would be nice. Something like

T1 rig + 2km range T2 rig +5km range
R1 rig +50% damage T2 rig +100% damage
implants the same


Um, this would allow a typical tier 3 battlecruiser to do something like 30,000 alpha damage to everything in a 2 km radius... and to do so twice before CONCORD arrives in medium-sec systems. Without even having to target (so no warning or countermeasures whatsoever, either)

Which, for example would allow you to kill DOZENS of ships in the Jita undock within seconds out of nowhere by successively undocking 3 or 4 BCs in a row and setting them off, at a cost of only about a third of a billion isk...

Or warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with one or two range bonuses and the rest damage and just wiping out everything nearly instantly before anybody can even begin locking targets.

So yeah, those numbers seem way Way WAY off. But the basic concept of rigs/implants are good. I'm thinking more like... +750m t1, +1.5km t2, and +10% damage t1, +20% damage t2


tier 3 battlecruisers can't fit 8 large smartbombs. they can fit mediums but they will NOT get 30k alpha. Maybe 4k with rigs and everything.

8 large smartbombs have a maximum alpha of 2400. with 3 100% boost rigs they would still only get around 10k alpha

moreover, you can't smartbomb on undock of a station, you can't smartbomb within 0 of celestial objects like stations and gates (or certain containers...but i really think that should be changed)

warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with a smartbomber SHOULD get you kills if you place it perfectly and the ships are squishy enough. That's the point of using them.

anyways, 100% is a bit too much in any scenario as the DPS on a smartbomber would be around 1200 with 3 rigs, which is clearly too much for AoE damage. 600 or maybe 700 should be the maximum possible with rigs and everything.

However, I am more interested in having bigger range on smartbombs than considerably more damage. They are meant for killing drones and frigates anyhow. Also, a reduction in cap use would be great, they require a huge amount of cap to run for even a short amount of time.

...btw make smartbombing bonused ships >: )

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-07 21:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Malecite wrote:
Why are not any? Would be nice. Something like

T1 rig + 2km range T2 rig +5km range
R1 rig +50% damage T2 rig +100% damage
implants the same


Um, this would allow a typical tier 3 battlecruiser to do something like 30,000 alpha damage to everything in a 2 km radius... and to do so twice before CONCORD arrives in medium-sec systems. Without even having to target (so no warning or countermeasures whatsoever, either)

Which, for example would allow you to kill DOZENS of ships in the Jita undock within seconds out of nowhere by successively undocking 3 or 4 BCs in a row and setting them off, at a cost of only about a third of a billion isk...

Or warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with one or two range bonuses and the rest damage and just wiping out everything nearly instantly before anybody can even begin locking targets.

So yeah, those numbers seem way Way WAY off. But the basic concept of rigs/implants are good. I'm thinking more like... +750m t1, +1.5km t2, and +10% damage t1, +20% damage t2


tier 3 battlecruisers can't fit 8 large smartbombs. they can fit mediums but they will NOT get 30k alpha. Maybe 4k with rigs and everything.

8 large smartbombs have a maximum alpha of 2400. with 3 100% boost rigs they would still only get around 10k alpha

moreover, you can't smartbomb on undock of a station, you can't smartbomb within 0 of celestial objects like stations and gates (or certain containers...but i really think that should be changed)

warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with a smartbomber SHOULD get you kills if you place it perfectly and the ships are squishy enough. That's the point of using them.

anyways, 100% is a bit too much in any scenario as the DPS on a smartbomber would be around 1200 with 3 rigs, which is clearly too much for AoE damage. 600 or maybe 700 should be the maximum possible with rigs and everything.

However, I am more interested in having bigger range on smartbombs than considerably more damage. They are meant for killing drones and frigates anyhow. Also, a reduction in cap use would be great, they require a huge amount of cap to run for even a short amount of time.

...btw make smartbombing bonused ships >: )


I know. I was using mediums.

150(medium bomb dam age) * 8 = 1200

Now, if we were to actually have 100% upgrade rigs, then you could stack them to get insane AOE damage..
*2 *2 *2 for 3 rigs = 9600
*2 for implant = 19200

Okay so 20k, I guess, total. Whatever, still crazy OP gank. 8 larges would be nearly 40,000 alpha, and if you could get 2 off before concord got there, you could almost gank a freighter with just two BSs...
Malecite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-09 16:42:44 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Malecite wrote:
Why are not any? Would be nice. Something like

T1 rig + 2km range T2 rig +5km range
R1 rig +50% damage T2 rig +100% damage
implants the same


Um, this would allow a typical tier 3 battlecruiser to do something like 30,000 alpha damage to everything in a 2 km radius... and to do so twice before CONCORD arrives in medium-sec systems. Without even having to target (so no warning or countermeasures whatsoever, either)

Which, for example would allow you to kill DOZENS of ships in the Jita undock within seconds out of nowhere by successively undocking 3 or 4 BCs in a row and setting them off, at a cost of only about a third of a billion isk...

Or warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with one or two range bonuses and the rest damage and just wiping out everything nearly instantly before anybody can even begin locking targets.

So yeah, those numbers seem way Way WAY off. But the basic concept of rigs/implants are good. I'm thinking more like... +750m t1, +1.5km t2, and +10% damage t1, +20% damage t2


tier 3 battlecruisers can't fit 8 large smartbombs. they can fit mediums but they will NOT get 30k alpha. Maybe 4k with rigs and everything.

8 large smartbombs have a maximum alpha of 2400. with 3 100% boost rigs they would still only get around 10k alpha

moreover, you can't smartbomb on undock of a station, you can't smartbomb within 0 of celestial objects like stations and gates (or certain containers...but i really think that should be changed)

warping into the middle of an enemy fleet with a smartbomber SHOULD get you kills if you place it perfectly and the ships are squishy enough. That's the point of using them.

anyways, 100% is a bit too much in any scenario as the DPS on a smartbomber would be around 1200 with 3 rigs, which is clearly too much for AoE damage. 600 or maybe 700 should be the maximum possible with rigs and everything.

However, I am more interested in having bigger range on smartbombs than considerably more damage. They are meant for killing drones and frigates anyhow. Also, a reduction in cap use would be great, they require a huge amount of cap to run for even a short amount of time.

...btw make smartbombing bonused ships >: )


I know. I was using mediums.

150(medium bomb dam age) * 8 = 1200

Now, if we were to actually have 100% upgrade rigs, then you could stack them to get insane AOE damage..
*2 *2 *2 for 3 rigs = 9600
*2 for implant = 19200

Okay so 20k, I guess, total. Whatever, still crazy OP gank. 8 larges would be nearly 40,000 alpha, and if you could get 2 off before concord got there, you could almost gank a freighter with just two BSs...


doesnt normal rigs have stacking penalty too?
Mund Richard
#6 - 2012-12-09 18:47:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Malecite wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
I know. I was using mediums.

150(medium bomb dam age) * 8 = 1200

Now, if we were to actually have 100% upgrade rigs, then you could stack them to get insane AOE damage..
*2 *2 *2 for 3 rigs = 9600
*2 for implant = 19200

Okay so 20k, I guess, total. Whatever, still crazy OP gank. 8 larges would be nearly 40,000 alpha, and if you could get 2 off before concord got there, you could almost gank a freighter with just two BSs...


doesnt normal rigs have stacking penalty too?

Yes, they do.
Plus who knows how much T2 rigs would cost.

On another note, I'd think Jita undock you can already SmartBomb fairly well if you go close enough (taking the invuln time you get on undock... hmm dunno, never really considered it).

The +% damage rigs/implants would probably be better if they were more in line with other damage rigs/implants, the +range should probably be also % based (so it would scale for smaller sized ones better), and quite weaker even at large size than OP suggests.

But I do see merit in the idea itself, even though I would more probably be on the receiving end, than on the giving.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Sigras
Conglomo
#7 - 2012-12-09 20:56:31 UTC
The game definitely needs more AOE to break up blobs, and even though I think 100% damage would be a bit much, but the people posting 19,000 alpha with a battlecruiser are just insane . . .ever hear of a stacking penalty? it would actually go:

8 * 150 (medium bomb damage = 1200
1200 * 2 * 1.87 * 1.57 for three rigs
* 1.28 for the implant = 9,019.08

Also to prevent even that from happening, you could make the rigs require 200 calibration like the damage rigs do for the other weapon systems, so you can fit a max of 2

This would be an interesting idea and you could do all types of things with it

Reduce Incoming SB damage
CPU usage
Cap usage
PG usage
damage
range
ROF

I think the penalty for these rigs would be agility
Malecite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-09 23:05:50 UTC
its another creative way to do damage. Adding to the sandboxy ness of eve!!!
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-12-09 23:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:
The game definitely needs more AOE to break up blobs, and even though I think 100% damage would be a bit much, but the people posting 19,000 alpha with a battlecruiser are just insane . . .ever hear of a stacking penalty? it would actually go:

8 * 150 (medium bomb damage = 1200
1200 * 2 * 1.87 * 1.57 for three rigs
* 1.28 for the implant = 9,019.08

1) Implants do not have stacking penalties from affecting the same attribute as a fitted module. Thus, the final number would still be * 2.0, not * 1.28, and the overall damage would be 14,092 even with stacking penalties.

2) 14,092 is still an absolutely insanely ridiculous AOE alpha damage for a battlecruiser. That is a good solid order of magnitude higher than the alpha of any normal BC fit, AND it affects every single ship in a 2km radius. It is even a higher alpha than the most ganky, alpha-specialized artillery + short range ammo fits you can make on a BC, and doubly or triply so if you have 2 or 3 targets in range, since bombs are AOE. Completely imbalanced.

Quote:
Also to prevent even that from happening, you could make the rigs require 200 calibration like the damage rigs do for the other weapon systems, so you can fit a max of 2

If you did that, you could still achieve 8,975 alpha, which is still several times more effective than any existing normal weapons systems when more than one ship is in range (e.g. any fleet or mission scenario, basically), and comparable to arty fits even when only one ship is in range.

Which means it would still be so imbalanced that this would be the ONLY reasonable brawling/short range fit anybody would use.
Sigras
Conglomo
#10 - 2012-12-10 04:38:15 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Quote:
The game definitely needs more AOE to break up blobs, and even though I think 100% damage would be a bit much, but the people posting 19,000 alpha with a battlecruiser are just insane . . .ever hear of a stacking penalty? it would actually go:

8 * 150 (medium bomb damage = 1200
1200 * 2 * 1.87 * 1.57 for three rigs
* 1.28 for the implant = 9,019.08

1) Implants do not have stacking penalties from affecting the same attribute as a fitted module. Thus, the final number would still be * 2.0, not * 1.28, and the overall damage would be 14,092 even with stacking penalties.

I guess implants dont get a stack nerf, however, now that I look at the the actual numbers of the modules, i find that smartbombs only do 140 damage not 150

so those numbers again:

8 * 140 (medium bomb damage = 1,120
1,120* 2 * 1.87 * 1.57 for three rigs
* 2 for the implant = 13,152.83

even so, i said that the 100% was probably a bit much, so say something like 50%

8 * 140 (medium bomb damage = 1,120
1,120*1.5 * 1.435 * 1.285 for three rigs
* 1.5 for the implant = 4,646.817 / 7.5 seconds = 619.57 DPS
Malecite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-10 13:48:43 UTC
What about battleship damage with these changes? form experiance i know you have like 1 chance to do damage as the 8 second cycle time makes ppl go fly out your range and than your basicly dead.
Mund Richard
#12 - 2012-12-10 16:06:45 UTC
Malecite wrote:
What about battleship damage with these changes? form experiance i know you have like 1 chance to do damage as the 8 second cycle time makes ppl go fly out your range and than your basicly dead.

Or not.

If you go with a few tacklers that tank the specific damage you will do, it can work wonders.
Or if the opponents are sluggish battleships like yourself.
Hell, you can do it on a Mael, nano it a bit, and dual/tripple XLASB it?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-12-11 02:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Sigras wrote:
however, now that I look at the the actual numbers of the modules, i find that smartbombs only do 140 damage not 150

No, look up faction EMP bombs. 150.


Quote:
even so, i said that the 100% was probably a bit much, so say something like 50%

8 * 140 (medium bomb damage = 1,120
1,120*1.5 * 1.435 * 1.285 for three rigs
* 1.5 for the implant = 4,646.817 / 7.5 seconds = 619.57 DPS

(with 150) = 4,978 alpha. Still seems way too high. Even just 2 ships in range of you means that your fit would still be stronger than a dedicated, pimped out artillery alpha specialty fit (since it deals about the same alpha overall, and doesn't require ANY targeting time).

i'd say like 25% tops

Quote:
What about battleship damage with these changes? form experiance i know you have like 1 chance to do damage as the 8 second cycle time makes ppl go fly out your range and than your basicly dead.

525 is the max damage of a large smartbomb.

So, approximately:
with 100% bonusing rigs, etc. = 49,323 alpha
with 50% bonusing rigs etc = 17,423 alpha
Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2012-12-12 06:09:39 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sigras wrote:
however, now that I look at the the actual numbers of the modules, i find that smartbombs only do 140 damage not 150

No, look up faction EMP bombs. 150.

yeah because faction smartbombs would be such a common tactic at 160 million per rack and more as they get bought up. Its not like smartbombing is a high risk strategy or anything . . .


Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sigras wrote:
even so, i said that the 100% was probably a bit much, so say something like 50%

8 * 140 (medium bomb damage = 1,120
1,120*1.5 * 1.435 * 1.285 for three rigs
* 1.5 for the implant = 4,646.817 / 7.5 seconds = 619.57 DPS

(with 150) = 4,978 alpha. Still seems way too high. Even just 2 ships in range of you means that your fit would still be stronger than a dedicated, pimped out artillery alpha specialty fit (since it deals about the same alpha overall, and doesn't require ANY targeting time).

i'd say like 25% tops

Yes because I too fear a weapon platform with less range than a blaster, more cap use than a laser and less damage and versatility than an autocannon . . .

Seriously, even blaster ships could kite these ships, they have 4 km optimal!

you would need like 9 of them to alpha strike a guardian, and if you thought getting into range with blasters was hard, try getting 9 ships into 4 km

The alpha muninns and alpha tornadoes are popular because they can switch ammo types and engage at basically any range, the same cannot be said of the smartbombs.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-12-12 18:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Sigras wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sigras wrote:
however, now that I look at the the actual numbers of the modules, i find that smartbombs only do 140 damage not 150

No, look up faction EMP bombs. 150.

yeah because faction smartbombs would be such a common tactic at 160 million per rack and more as they get bought up. Its not like smartbombing is a high risk strategy or anything . . .


Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sigras wrote:
even so, i said that the 100% was probably a bit much, so say something like 50%

8 * 140 (medium bomb damage = 1,120
1,120*1.5 * 1.435 * 1.285 for three rigs
* 1.5 for the implant = 4,646.817 / 7.5 seconds = 619.57 DPS

(with 150) = 4,978 alpha. Still seems way too high. Even just 2 ships in range of you means that your fit would still be stronger than a dedicated, pimped out artillery alpha specialty fit (since it deals about the same alpha overall, and doesn't require ANY targeting time).

i'd say like 25% tops

Yes because I too fear a weapon platform with less range than a blaster, more cap use than a laser and less damage and versatility than an autocannon . . .

Seriously, even blaster ships could kite these ships, they have 4 km optimal!

you would need like 9 of them to alpha strike a guardian, and if you thought getting into range with blasters was hard, try getting 9 ships into 4 km

The alpha muninns and alpha tornadoes are popular because they can switch ammo types and engage at basically any range, the same cannot be said of the smartbombs.


Did you read the OP?

A battleship with 500+ damage large bombs could spend half of their rigs/implants on range and half on damage:

500*8 = 4000
*1.5(rig) 1.3 (penalized rig) *1.5(nonpenalized implant) = 11,700 alpha
+5km range (rig) = 10km range

At 10 seconds reload, the DPS is about 1,200, which even with only one ship in range is still at or above the typical battleship DPS, and it works at 10km, AND it gets applied to all ships in that range at once.

If you have even so much as 2 ships within 10km of you, the DPS becomes higher than what you can get even with a full rack of t2 blasters, t2 ammo, and damage enchancing low mods... (keep in mind that THIS ship, by the way, would still have all of its low and mid slots free, allowing it to have a ton of speed or EWAR who knows what else, making it that much more imbalanced)



You're looking at this in terms of how many of these boats you would need to alpha ONE target. That's completely the wrong way to look at it, because that is NOT the situation that anybody would use AOE weapons in. You don't use splash weapons against a single target, you use them against grouped targets. So you have to evaluate it by "how much damage would it do overall to a typical group of targets within range?" And the answer is, even with 50% bonuses, "way way more than any other ship fit out there"
Mund Richard
#16 - 2012-12-12 19:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
You're looking at this in terms of how many of these boats you would need to alpha ONE target. That's completely the wrong way to look at it, because that is NOT the situation that anybody would use AOE weapons in. You don't use splash weapons against a single target, you use them against grouped targets. So you have to evaluate it by "how much damage would it do overall to a typical group of targets within range?" And the answer is, even with 50% bonuses, "way way more than any other ship fit out there"

Not to mention if you consider them like a SB's bombing run.
Bring a few Rokh extra-hardened against the same damage type the whole fleet deals. They don't really need hardening against any other damage type, as assuming they don't jump a fleet several times their size, the damage they deal to each other summed up will heavily outweight the damage dealt to them by the opponent. Can go from 87.9% EM resist with 3 hardeners to 94% with explosive.
They will die under sustained fire horribly, but they can tank quite well against their own damage.
If there is 10 of them, how much damage do they do in a 11 second window, using T2 mods and T1 rigs given the OP's number?
Shamelessly stealing the previous poster's numbers: 11,700 alpha times 20 (one reload and 10 ships): 234k or so?

How much of the enemy will be left on field afterwards?

Edit:
Heck, XLASB can go to hell, no help from there, with a DC II and 3*T2 hardeners, even with exp (highest resist) they only get like 235k EHP (barely surviving each other on the second "volley", dead on the third), if they go EM, the second volley will be incomplete as they shred each other, unless they mount only EM resists and Large shield extenders in the highs, or armor/hull tank a bit.
Tough for the EM flavour, Abaddons will be the thing I imagine.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#17 - 2012-12-12 20:51:23 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
You're looking at this in terms of how many of these boats you would need to alpha ONE target. That's completely the wrong way to look at it, because that is NOT the situation that anybody would use AOE weapons in. You don't use splash weapons against a single target, you use them against grouped targets. So you have to evaluate it by "how much damage would it do overall to a typical group of targets within range?" And the answer is, even with 50% bonuses, "way way more than any other ship fit out there"

Not to mention if you consider them like a SB's bombing run.
Bring a few Rokh extra-hardened against the same damage type the whole fleet deals. They don't really need hardening against any other damage type, as assuming they don't jump a fleet several times their size, the damage they deal to each other summed up will heavily outweight the damage dealt to them by the opponent. Can go from 87.9% EM resist with 3 hardeners to 94% with explosive.
They will die under sustained fire horribly, but they can tank quite well against their own damage.
If there is 10 of them, how much damage do they do in a 11 second window, using T2 mods and T1 rigs given the OP's number?
Shamelessly stealing the previous poster's numbers: 11,700 alpha times 20 (one reload and 10 ships): 234k or so?

How much of the enemy will be left on field afterwards?

Edit:
Heck, XLASB can go to hell, no help from there, with a DC II and 3*T2 hardeners, even with exp (highest resist) they only get like 235k EHP (barely surviving each other on the second "volley", dead on the third), if they go EM, the second volley will be incomplete as they shred each other, unless they mount only EM resists and Large shield extenders in the highs, or armor/hull tank a bit.
Tough for the EM flavour, Abaddons will be the thing I imagine.


Sound like fun. Needs some tweeking but besides alpha theres noting rly that keeps targets on field, simply warp off. Could be a nice new tactic to free up fleet blobs hughing eatchother :p like bombers but than 200 mil suicide ships :p

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Sigras
Conglomo
#18 - 2012-12-12 22:03:45 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Yes because I too fear a weapon platform with less range than a blaster, more cap use than a laser and less damage and versatility than an autocannon . . .

Seriously, even blaster ships could kite these ships, they have 4 km optimal!

you would need like 9 of them to alpha strike a guardian, and if you thought getting into range with blasters was hard, try getting 9 ships into 4 km

The alpha muninns and alpha tornadoes are popular because they can switch ammo types and engage at basically any range, the same cannot be said of the smartbombs.


Did you read the OP?

A battleship with 500+ damage large bombs could spend half of their rigs/implants on range and half on damage:

500*8 = 4000
*1.5(rig) 1.3 (penalized rig) *1.5(nonpenalized implant) = 11,700 alpha
+5km range (rig) = 10km range

At 10 seconds reload, the DPS is about 1,200, which even with only one ship in range is still at or above the typical battleship DPS, and it works at 10km, AND it gets applied to all ships in that range at once.

and all for the low low price of 48 billion isk!

Seriously before looking at the biggest number in EFT/evemon, perhaps you should look at the price of the modules or . . . you know, the fact that there arent even 8 smartbombs in jita that are able to hit with > 500 damage

a more realistic number would be 375 * 8 = 3000
*1.5(rig) 1.3 (penalized rig) *1.5(nonpenalized implant) = 8,775 alpha

and even then thats still like 600 million in just smartbombs!

300 * 8 = 2400 (T2)
*1.5(rig) 1.3 (penalized rig) *1.5(nonpenalized implant) = 7,020 alpha

and remember, these things drain your cap like its going out of style

Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
If you have even so much as 2 ships within 10km of you, the DPS becomes higher than what you can get even with a full rack of t2 blasters, t2 ammo, and damage enchancing low mods... (keep in mind that THIS ship, by the way, would still have all of its low and mid slots free, allowing it to have a ton of speed or EWAR who knows what else, making it that much more imbalanced)

if youre gonna compare DPS you may as well compare on an even cost per cost basis, and even then its not ok because 9 times out of 10 the smartbombing ships are going to be suiciding

Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
You're looking at this in terms of how many of these boats you would need to alpha ONE target. That's completely the wrong way to look at it, because that is NOT the situation that anybody would use AOE weapons in. You don't use splash weapons against a single target, you use them against grouped targets. So you have to evaluate it by "how much damage would it do overall to a typical group of targets within range?" And the answer is, even with 50% bonuses, "way way more than any other ship fit out there"

I understand that principle, but the number of varibles in calculating that number in the tens of thousands . . . It basically all depends on how moronic your opponent is and how much they group up.

You realize that even now your smartbombs only have to hit 6 targets to do more damage than a super ganked out vindicator right? even before the rigs? So why doesnt anyone use them? because its freaking impossible to ever get in range of anyone with a smartbomb!

seriously, its not like bringing a knife to a gun fight, in eve its more like bringing a knife to an ICBM fight.
Mund Richard
#19 - 2012-12-12 22:21:20 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Sound like fun. Needs some tweeking but besides alpha theres noting rly that keeps targets on field, simply warp off. Could be a nice new tactic to free up fleet blobs hughing eatchother :p like bombers but than 200 mil suicide ships :p

True, so let's keep it 1 full run, the ships can tank each other just fine, and still if they have good intel of what's heading their way, use hardeners and bombs accordingly, over 100k damage on a gate as they want to warp to the next system or something.

Glorious trap is glorious, and might not be all that inefficient in the ISK department as well.

But mainly for the lolz. Man now I want to get on a killmail like that.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-12-12 23:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:
because its freaking impossible to ever get in range of anyone with a smartbomb!


The numbers I used above included one range upgrade, which gives you 10km. It's kinda sad if you can't get within 10km of somebody, even with ALL of your low and mid slots available for speed mods.

Note that the one single range upgrade increases the total volume of the sphere of influence by a factor of 8, by the way...

With all range upgrades instead of damage, you could get up to 22+km and 87x the volume of the original smartbomb...


As for cost, for 7000 alpha you can pay:
tech1 large smartbombs = about 500k isk and do 300 damage.
Armageddon battleship for example is about 100 million.
let's say the rigs and implant are 10million each
a few heavy armor plates and t1 high meta level resists = like 5 million more
a bunch of cheap shield buffer = another few million
-71 million back in insurance
Full cost of suiciding is 95ish million

Compare to typical ganky battleship blaster fits that have about the same range and the same DPS and the same alpha (on one target), yet cost billions of isk and can only shoot one ship at a time... Most of the vindicator fits I've seen spend more on a single magnetic field stabilizer than this entire smartbomb ship would cost.

Cost effectiveness of damage dealing is thus about 10x higher here than a "normal" fit, PER SHIP within 10km (e.g. with 4 ships in range, 40x more cost effective than blasters)
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