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To CCP: If OGB is being removed Is there going to be a SP refund?
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Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#121 - 2012-12-12 22:00:29 UTC
Fit less links onto it and see and wonder: it works ongrid.


Or wait for CCPs rebalance that allows you to fit 3 links and be ongrid with them.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2012-12-12 22:03:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ur235 wrote:
I think the problem lies with the fact that if your a small fleet of lets say 20 pilots and you are taking on 150 or so goons in your small fleet you have a on grid booster but as soon as you land that boosting ship is going to be volleyed by the 150 or so goons first especially if there in Alpha ships. Yet there on grid booster is at far less risk because he has a meatshield of 149 guys around him compared to just your 19 plus they might have 20 or so logistic pilots while your small gang is just running a nano fleet. It will clearly favour the bigger fleets in the end and god knows there already enough in the blobs favour in EVE atm. At least at the moment if a gang does loose a Linky ship its there own fault for not watching over it properly, not just purely because they didnt bring enough people to fight them

OFC booster alts are ghey for solo play and its not really true solo pvp if you have to use a linky alt to solo people much like falcon alts where ghey yet they have been nerfed somewhat. CCP is going to need to come up with a compromise somewhere or alot of smalltime players who prefer to fly in small but well drilled gangs will have yet another reason to be frustrated with Eve

Speaking from the point of someone with little experience, for what it's worth if I were the larger gang I'd want to use my numbers to bring probers to keep your booster on the run and not providing boots should the situation allow. Meanwhile my own OGB's would have much lower chance of being interrupted as you can't spare the extra pilots from the main engagement. That chance drops to 0 if you have no pilots doing it. Even the off grid boosters seem to favor the larger entity.

Is there a reason it wouldn't/couldn't work out like that?
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#123 - 2012-12-12 22:07:37 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:


But in the case of OGB, it isn't being nerfed it is being removed completely. You cannot use the boosters off grid, and that means a 3+ link T3 is WORTHLESS.




Good.

That's the entire point.
Gangname Style
Doomheim
#124 - 2012-12-12 22:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gangname Style
Baron vonDoom wrote:
Gangname Style wrote:


But in the case of OGB, it isn't being nerfed it is being removed completely. You cannot use the boosters off grid, and that means a 3+ link T3 is WORTHLESS.




Good.

That's the entire point.


Ok then CCP give me my SP.


Sheynan wrote:
Fit less links onto it and see and wonder: it works ongrid.


Or wait for CCPs rebalance that allows you to fit 3 links and be ongrid with them.


What CCP rebalance? Where are you getting this info?


Having to worry about a booster being ongrid is just more work for the small gang pilot trying to dual box both accounts.

Like I said, I'm fine with OGBs being REMOVED (different than nerf durrr), but I want my SP refunded so I can train my alt to something USEFUL...

Having it sit in a command ship and follow my small gang around all the time on grid isn't gonna cut it. Thats tottaly different than what it does right now. That warrants refunded SP.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-12-12 22:09:24 UTC
Ur235 wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
No I don't, you're right.

I do know that sitting a ship at a PoS, inside a sheild, away from the fight, is stupid.

And that only a moron thinks that that's "harder" than actually keeping it safe in the middle of the fight.

You obviously side with the guy that made the rediculous comment, and frankly that says a crapton more about you than the corp I'm in says about me.


Whiny little brats who're just afraid of losing a ship.
That's what it boils down to, and I don't need to know a thing about "small gang" pvp to know that.


Ur235 wrote:
I think the problem lies with the fact that if your a small fleet of lets say 20 pilots and you are taking on 150 or so goons in your small fleet you have a on grid booster but as soon as you land that boosting ship is going to be volleyed by the 150 or so goons first especially if there in Alpha ships. Yet there on grid booster is at far less risk because he has a meatshield of 149 guys around him compared to just your 19 plus they might have 20 or so logistic pilots while your small gang is just running a nano fleet. It will clearly favour the bigger fleets in the end and god knows there already enough in the blobs favour in EVE atm. At least at the moment if a gang does loose a Linky ship its there own fault for not watching over it properly, not just purely because they didnt bring enough people to fight them

OFC booster alts are ghey for solo play and its not really true solo pvp if you have to use a linky alt to solo people much like falcon alts where ghey yet they have been nerfed somewhat. CCP is going to need to come up with a compromise somewhere or alot of smalltime players who prefer to fly in small but well drilled gangs will have yet another reason to be frustrated with Eve


Have a read of this and maybe your 1 track blob pvp mind will see how it effects smaller gangs.

I mean I know you CFC guys despise small gangs and beleive that if you cant bring enough people to a fight then you shouldnt have turned up for a fight in the first place but there are other pvpers in the game that can and will fight outnumbered believe it or not


Who said you can't bring in multiple command ships?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-12-12 22:11:48 UTC
Ur235 wrote:

Have a read of this and maybe your 1 track blob pvp mind will see how it effects smaller gangs.

I mean I know you CFC guys despise small gangs and beleive that if you cant bring enough people to a fight then you shouldnt have turned up for a fight in the first place but there are other pvpers in the game that can and will fight outnumbered believe it or not

Meaningless.

You'll be able to use warfare links when they fix off grid boosting. You'll just have to actually put the ******* ship in harms way, just like everyone else is doing.


Are you telling me that ONLY small gangs use warfare links?


You shouldn't be able to park a ship, off grid, at a PoS, under a shield, and support people who are pvping.


You guys are crying about the potential of losing a ship, that's all it is.
Even when CCP tells you it's not intended to work the way you guys are using it you still cry about it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#127 - 2012-12-12 22:13:19 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Seriously ^.

Guy trains an OGB. How to do counter? Train to probe.

Derps can't think of a solution to anything that they can't see and shoot infront of them.

But CCP made their decision. So I want an SP refund if they ever make this change.

Just pointing out that I can evade max skilled probers all day in a battleship. A cruiser flown right can never be pfobed down


Yeah warp around in your OGB, how are you gunna be running links when you are warping smart guy? What happens to your gang when you warp? They just die lol.


Lets try to explain this to you in another way.

Properly outfit a T3 can be extremely difficult to probe out, and if successful can have the speed to be far enough away from you when you do get there that they have plenty of time to warp if necessary.

Key words being "Properly fit"... which seems to be the part that is hanging you up.

You won't be able to fit with maximizing its boosting capability as your only consideration any more, and frankly it shouldn't be your only consideration now.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ur235
Appetite 4 Destruction
#128 - 2012-12-12 22:14:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ur235 wrote:
I think the problem lies with the fact that if your a small fleet of lets say 20 pilots and you are taking on 150 or so goons in your small fleet you have a on grid booster but as soon as you land that boosting ship is going to be volleyed by the 150 or so goons first especially if there in Alpha ships. Yet there on grid booster is at far less risk because he has a meatshield of 149 guys around him compared to just your 19 plus they might have 20 or so logistic pilots while your small gang is just running a nano fleet. It will clearly favour the bigger fleets in the end and god knows there already enough in the blobs favour in EVE atm. At least at the moment if a gang does loose a Linky ship its there own fault for not watching over it properly, not just purely because they didnt bring enough people to fight them

OFC booster alts are ghey for solo play and its not really true solo pvp if you have to use a linky alt to solo people much like falcon alts where ghey yet they have been nerfed somewhat. CCP is going to need to come up with a compromise somewhere or alot of smalltime players who prefer to fly in small but well drilled gangs will have yet another reason to be frustrated with Eve

Speaking from the point of someone with little experience, for what it's worth if I were the larger gang I'd want to use my numbers to bring probers to keep your booster on the run and not providing boots should the situation allow. Meanwhile my own OGB's would have much lower chance of being interrupted as you can't spare the extra pilots from the main engagement. That chance drops to 0 if you have no pilots doing it. Even the off grid boosters seem to favor the larger entity.

Is there a reason it wouldn't/couldn't work out like that?


Its a good point tbh either way it will benefit the larger fleet, at least now if you fly the linky ship smart and dont get it killed theres a chance it wont be probed down and killed as long as you watch over it like a hawk and fly it smart. But there is 0 chance of flying a ship smart that is specifically fitted for links and is paper thin whilst on grid, they will have to really come up with something special to solve this problem I think. But knowing CCP they will just use the nerf bat and care about the consequences later

hmm
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#129 - 2012-12-12 22:14:17 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
Baron vonDoom wrote:
Gangname Style wrote:


But in the case of OGB, it isn't being nerfed it is being removed completely. You cannot use the boosters off grid, and that means a 3+ link T3 is WORTHLESS.




Good.

That's the entire point.


Ok then CCP give me my SP.





Actually, you should feel lucky you're not banned.

The ferrogel exploit existed for months after having been petitioned, still the players involved on a large scale were banned.

OGB alts are a far more detrimental exploit.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-12-12 22:15:38 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
Baron vonDoom wrote:
Gangname Style wrote:


But in the case of OGB, it isn't being nerfed it is being removed completely. You cannot use the boosters off grid, and that means a 3+ link T3 is WORTHLESS.




Good.

That's the entire point.


Ok then CCP give me my SP.


Sheynan wrote:
Fit less links onto it and see and wonder: it works ongrid.


Or wait for CCPs rebalance that allows you to fit 3 links and be ongrid with them.


What CCP rebalance? Where are you getting this info?


Having to worry about a booster being ongrid is just more work for the small gang pilot trying to dual box both accounts.

Like I said, I'm fine with OGBs being REMOVED (different than nerf durrr), but I want my SP refunded so I can train my alt to something USEFUL...

Having it sit in a command ship and follow my small gang around all the time on grid isn't gonna cut it. Thats tottaly different than what it does right now. That warrants refunded SP.

It would appear, considering various nerfs over time, that the use you intended your training to have is not a factor in reimbursement. Rather the only thing considered is that there is a use for it at all, regardless of if changes in that use may or may not fit your current or future plans.

Therefore this does not warrant a refund.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2012-12-12 22:15:41 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Offgrid boosters is what is keeping solo and small gang alive. Removing them is completely, 100% ********. Keep them CCP, or lose most of ur old-school PvP players that have been playing for almost over 6+ years.

OGB are the only thing actually enabling us to fight the small gangs you see around now. Unless u want to give us some sort of skills that increase the tank to that of having an offgrid booster, buti dont work when u got ongrid one......


If you absolutely need your off-grid-boosting alt to have fun/success soloing, you aren't truly trying. Or you aren't very good.

Actually, I suspect you would be fine. But once we are used to some sort of advantage, it's hard to let go... Try. Yes, you'll lose your ships more often. And you might have to change what kind of targets/gangs you engage solo. But you'll still have your successes.

But OGB being "the only thing enabling us to fight small gangs"... is simply not true.

Also, most old-school pvp players DONT fly alone. (nor do you, most of the time, as evidenced by your killboard).

Removing OGB makes fights a bit more fair all around. (as if only soloists used booster alts, there are after all MORE common for gangs...) Mind you, some of your targets also were off-grid-boosted at times. In these cases, it was a wash anyway, with no side benefiting for all the hassle.

It's a stupid mechanic. Get your command-ships or strategic cruisers on grid.
Ur235
Appetite 4 Destruction
#132 - 2012-12-12 22:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ur235
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Ur235 wrote:

Have a read of this and maybe your 1 track blob pvp mind will see how it effects smaller gangs.

I mean I know you CFC guys despise small gangs and beleive that if you cant bring enough people to a fight then you shouldnt have turned up for a fight in the first place but there are other pvpers in the game that can and will fight outnumbered believe it or not

Meaningless.

You'll be able to use warfare links when they fix off grid boosting. You'll just have to actually put the ******* ship in harms way, just like everyone else is doing.


Are you telling me that ONLY small gangs use warfare links?


You shouldn't be able to park a ship, off grid, at a PoS, under a shield, and support people who are pvping.


You guys are crying about the potential of losing a ship, that's all it is.
Even when CCP tells you it's not intended to work the way you guys are using it you still cry about it.


Yeh and if you put the ship in harms way with 100+ alpha maels turning there guns on your paper thin linky ship its going to easily get alphad and therefore there would be no point in bringing the linky ship in your small gang in the first place, whilst you guys (the blobbers) will still have yours but with a meatshiled of 100+ guys around it and god knows how many logistics ships repping it and therefore will still reap the benefits of the links

you could say "well dont make it paper thin in the first place" its a good point, but being as you have the numbers and therefore a much higher chance of keeping your paper thin ship alive you will prob make it paperthin anyway and just ask your logi pilots to add it to the watch list or something

hmm
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2012-12-12 22:18:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
You see CCP, just like Jump Bridges, Titan AOE weapons, easy lvl 4s, T3 ships that do everything so nothing else has to be flown, the old high sec LVL 5s, crazy incursions rewards, crazy FW rewards and Sanctums in EVERY upgraded null sec system among other such things you giveth and then take away, once people get used to them there is a great outcry when you change it.

Which would seem to be GREAT incentive to not put such overpowered stuff in the game in the 1st place maybe????


This. Althought it is hard to avoid putting in OP stuff by accident. ;)
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-12-12 22:18:49 UTC
"Bu... It's paper thin."

Well, don't try to fit billion links and you can fit tank.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#135 - 2012-12-12 22:19:50 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
Baron vonDoom wrote:
Gangname Style wrote:


But in the case of OGB, it isn't being nerfed it is being removed completely. You cannot use the boosters off grid, and that means a 3+ link T3 is WORTHLESS.




Good.

That's the entire point.


Ok then CCP give me my SP.


Sheynan wrote:
Fit less links onto it and see and wonder: it works ongrid.


Or wait for CCPs rebalance that allows you to fit 3 links and be ongrid with them.


What CCP rebalance? Where are you getting this info?


Having to worry about a booster being ongrid is just more work for the small gang pilot trying to dual box both accounts.

Like I said, I'm fine with OGBs being REMOVED (different than nerf durrr), but I want my SP refunded so I can train my alt to something USEFUL...

Having it sit in a command ship and follow my small gang around all the time on grid isn't gonna cut it. Thats tottaly different than what it does right now. That warrants refunded SP.


If you are going to attempt to stir up support for your cause, you really should have some idea as to the pertinent details before you do.

And no, you are still nowhere close to making a case for SP reimbursement.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-12-12 22:22:03 UTC
OGB I thought was Olive Oil, Garlic, and butter. Used to get it all the time for lunch in grade school, its those 3 ingredients on spaghetti noodles, pretty good.

Also Being a on grid booster will still be extremely useful so stop your bitching for exploiting an overpowered and broken mechanic.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Gangname Style
Doomheim
#137 - 2012-12-12 22:22:08 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Gangname Style wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Seriously ^.

Guy trains an OGB. How to do counter? Train to probe.

Derps can't think of a solution to anything that they can't see and shoot infront of them.

But CCP made their decision. So I want an SP refund if they ever make this change.

Just pointing out that I can evade max skilled probers all day in a battleship. A cruiser flown right can never be pfobed down


Yeah warp around in your OGB, how are you gunna be running links when you are warping smart guy? What happens to your gang when you warp? They just die lol.


Lets try to explain this to you in another way.

Properly outfit a T3 can be extremely difficult to probe out, and if successful can have the speed to be far enough away from you when you do get there that they have plenty of time to warp if necessary.

Key words being "Properly fit"... which seems to be the part that is hanging you up.

You won't be able to fit with maximizing its boosting capability as your only consideration any more, and frankly it shouldn't be your only consideration now.


Did you read the post? What happens when the OGB warps? Gang links drop and that active tank that was tanking an entire gang all of a sudden becomes bad and the PVPers die.

How 2 probe for dummies:

1. Drop 8 probes and scan the OGB.

2. You warp in cloaked when you catch them.

3. You get people to warp in, OGB dead = good job.


Seriously do you guys not know how to problem solve? Rofl.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#138 - 2012-12-12 22:27:52 UTC
Ur235 wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Ur235 wrote:

Have a read of this and maybe your 1 track blob pvp mind will see how it effects smaller gangs.

I mean I know you CFC guys despise small gangs and beleive that if you cant bring enough people to a fight then you shouldnt have turned up for a fight in the first place but there are other pvpers in the game that can and will fight outnumbered believe it or not

Meaningless.

You'll be able to use warfare links when they fix off grid boosting. You'll just have to actually put the ******* ship in harms way, just like everyone else is doing.


Are you telling me that ONLY small gangs use warfare links?


You shouldn't be able to park a ship, off grid, at a PoS, under a shield, and support people who are pvping.


You guys are crying about the potential of losing a ship, that's all it is.
Even when CCP tells you it's not intended to work the way you guys are using it you still cry about it.


Yeh and if you put the ship in harms way with 100+ alpha maels turning there guns on your paper thin linky ship its going to easily get alphad and therefore there would be no point in bringing the linky ship in your small gang in the first place, whilst you guys (the blobbers) will still have yours but with a meatshiled of 100+ guys around it and god knows how many logistics ships repping it and therefore will still reap the benefits of the links

you could say "well dont make it paper thin in the first place" its a good point but being as you have the numbers and therefore a much higher chance of keeping your papaer thin ship alive you will prob make it paperthin anyway and just ask you logi pilots to add it to the watch list or something


By that same token, if you are foolish enough to put your small gang (with or without a booster present) where they CAN be alpha'd by 100 Maelstroms your little raid is over anyway.

Now if you can fit your small gang to be able to survive in a fight with those Maels, you can also fit your boosting ship to do the same (albiet it will not be able to be as specialized for boosting as it currently can)... especially since that boosting ship can be anywhere on the entire grid and does not have to stick with the gang or be within weapons range of the enemy fleet.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Gangname Style
Doomheim
#139 - 2012-12-12 22:28:52 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ur235 wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Ur235 wrote:

Have a read of this and maybe your 1 track blob pvp mind will see how it effects smaller gangs.

I mean I know you CFC guys despise small gangs and beleive that if you cant bring enough people to a fight then you shouldnt have turned up for a fight in the first place but there are other pvpers in the game that can and will fight outnumbered believe it or not

Meaningless.

You'll be able to use warfare links when they fix off grid boosting. You'll just have to actually put the ******* ship in harms way, just like everyone else is doing.


Are you telling me that ONLY small gangs use warfare links?


You shouldn't be able to park a ship, off grid, at a PoS, under a shield, and support people who are pvping.


You guys are crying about the potential of losing a ship, that's all it is.
Even when CCP tells you it's not intended to work the way you guys are using it you still cry about it.


Yeh and if you put the ship in harms way with 100+ alpha maels turning there guns on your paper thin linky ship its going to easily get alphad and therefore there would be no point in bringing the linky ship in your small gang in the first place, whilst you guys (the blobbers) will still have yours but with a meatshiled of 100+ guys around it and god knows how many logistics ships repping it and therefore will still reap the benefits of the links

you could say "well dont make it paper thin in the first place" its a good point but being as you have the numbers and therefore a much higher chance of keeping your papaer thin ship alive you will prob make it paperthin anyway and just ask you logi pilots to add it to the watch list or something


By that same token, if you are foolish enough to put your small gang (with or without a booster present) where they CAN be alpha'd by 100 Maelstroms your little raid is over anyway.

Now if you can fit your small gang to be able to survive in a fight with those Maels, you can also fit your boosting ship to do the same (albiet it will not be able to be as specialized for boosting as it currently can)... especially since that boosting ship can be anywhere on the entire grid and does not have to stick with the gang or be within weapons range of the enemy fleet.


Show me this magical T3 fit that gives me 3 links and can survive being on grid at the same time.

Otherwise delete your post because its nonsense.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#140 - 2012-12-12 22:29:34 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Gangname Style wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


Seriously ^.

Guy trains an OGB. How to do counter? Train to probe.

Derps can't think of a solution to anything that they can't see and shoot infront of them.

But CCP made their decision. So I want an SP refund if they ever make this change.

Just pointing out that I can evade max skilled probers all day in a battleship. A cruiser flown right can never be pfobed down


Yeah warp around in your OGB, how are you gunna be running links when you are warping smart guy? What happens to your gang when you warp? They just die lol.


Lets try to explain this to you in another way.

Properly outfit a T3 can be extremely difficult to probe out, and if successful can have the speed to be far enough away from you when you do get there that they have plenty of time to warp if necessary.

Key words being "Properly fit"... which seems to be the part that is hanging you up.

You won't be able to fit with maximizing its boosting capability as your only consideration any more, and frankly it shouldn't be your only consideration now.


Did you read the post? What happens when the OGB warps? Gang links drop and that active tank that was tanking an entire gang all of a sudden becomes bad and the PVPers die.

How 2 probe for dummies:

1. Drop 8 probes and scan the OGB.

2. You warp in cloaked when you catch them.

3. You get people to warp in, OGB dead = good job.


Seriously do you guys not know how to problem solve? Rofl.


Apparently you don't know how to probe out a ship, let alone the numerous ways to easily defeat your example.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.