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Active Armor tanking sucks
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#41 - 2012-12-12 17:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Transmaritanus wrote:
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378

Check that EHP.

And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.

Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.


Next:
- 1x T2 Medium Armor Repairer on Harbinger
- 1x T2 X-Large Shield booster on Cyclone


That's the main problem.
Ever tryed to use a Large Armor Rep on a Harbinger?

It is FAR to easy to use oversized Shield Boosters!

If you compare a empty Harbinger with just a Med Rep and a empty Hurrican with jus a MED Booster they are similar in HP/S. Harbinger get 51(53) armor/s and Hurrican 54(59) shield/s.
BUT who uses MED Booster? Not even Cruiser fits use MED Booster as it should be! If you find a kill mail with a "only" a Large Booster on a Cyclon you get flaimed allready as it is a "must be" to fit X-Large. The sad part is: THEY FIT! Sure, you lose alot PG and CPU but it is not imposible to fit them. Just for fun try to fit a Large Repair on a Harbinger. It's not posible as you miss over 400 PG WITHOUT anything else fitted!

Fitting requierments for Shield Boosters are simply 100% broken.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#42 - 2012-12-12 18:16:27 UTC
i dont think it's broken, just a different mechanic. Are you going to say missile system are broken because they don't do insta damage? Because velocity and both signature affect the applied dps? Come on, differmt systems, different results. It was never meant to be the same
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-12-12 18:26:32 UTC
I have a dual plate dual rep prophecy that's pretty meaty.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-12-12 18:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Murk Paradox wrote:
I have a dual plate dual rep prophecy that's pretty meaty.

Say again? x2 plates and x2 reps? Not a very good idea, you should use armor resist hardners instead of plates or else your just wasting powergrid and making your ship slower with no bonus to your active tank. Plates should only be used when your going straight buffer. Two eanms give you similar EHP too two plates anyway at a bonus to your active tank.

Their are exceptions though to mixing reppers and plates don't get me wrong, but in any situation where your using a prophecy your probably not going to be mixing.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-12-12 18:35:59 UTC
Jackson Steely wrote:
Basically



Clearly you have never flown a double rep Navy Domi....

I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#46 - 2012-12-12 19:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
BearJews wrote:
i dont think it's broken, just a different mechanic. Are you going to say missile system are broken because they don't do insta damage? Because velocity and both signature affect the applied dps? Come on, differmt systems, different results. It was never meant to be the same

If it is posible to fit BS-sized systems without much problem on BC- or even Cruiser-sized hulls they YES, they ARE broken.

If you could fit Cruise Missile Launcher on a Drake then they would be broken too. Not only 1 but a full reg of them. And not only with all over fitting moduls but with just 1 fitting modul or even without any.

But if you don't belive they are broken tell me when you saw the last not-rookie fitting for a Frig with SMALL Booster which is realy flown and not just EFT-warrior. They use MED Booster as they fit so easily! Ever tryed to fit a MED Rep on a Frig-Sized hull?

XL-Booster are oversized BS moduls like Tachions are. But hey who cares, they are SO easy to fit, let's use them everywhere. EVEN on BC-sized hulls!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Ginger Barbarella
#47 - 2012-12-12 19:22:06 UTC
Active armor tanking ROX!!!

For the 3 seconds you have it running until your cap is gone. So you fit a Booster.

Like that?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-12-12 20:23:37 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
I have a dual plate dual rep prophecy that's pretty meaty.

Say again? x2 plates and x2 reps? Not a very good idea, you should use armor resist hardners instead of plates or else your just wasting powergrid and making your ship slower with no bonus to your active tank. Plates should only be used when your going straight buffer. Two eanms give you similar EHP too two plates anyway at a bonus to your active tank.

Their are exceptions though to mixing reppers and plates don't get me wrong, but in any situation where your using a prophecy your probably not going to be mixing.



There's more to it, just not the point of this thread.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-12-12 20:34:43 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Active armor tanking ROX!!!

For the 3 seconds you have it running until your cap is gone. So you fit a Booster.

Like that?


Triple rep Harbinger vs dual ASB Cyclone

Fight!
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-12 20:45:01 UTC
ASB's are broken. It was one of those "wouldn't it be cool if" things that CCP said they weren't doing anymore.

I mean, sure they're cool but obviously not very balanced.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Roosevelt Coltrane
Rupakaya
#51 - 2012-12-12 22:03:44 UTC
Truth.

The Myrm has active tank bonuses but unless you TRIPLE rep it, a passive shield will be a better tank. It might be a great ship, but its basically the fourth Minmatar BC. Projectiles and shield tank make it awesome.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#52 - 2012-12-12 22:06:28 UTC
No evildoer will break my active shield tanked GOLEM, nevar!

Armor? Is that an ancient knighly pantaloon and jacket set? Cool

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-12-12 22:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Roosevelt Coltrane wrote:
Truth.

The Myrm has active tank bonuses but unless you TRIPLE rep it, a passive shield will be a better tank. It might be a great ship, but its basically the fourth Minmatar BC. Projectiles and shield tank make it awesome.

What is wrong with triple repping if I get sick tank and can still scram, web, and have prop with a cap booster? Not to mention on a passively tanked drake your true tank doesnt kick in until your at 40% ish hp. Can your ASB cyclone spare a web? Shields get their efficient boosters because they can't be a viable pvp boat without prop and scramblers making them have to squeeze more into less.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-12-12 22:16:12 UTC
what.
Perihelion Olenard
#55 - 2012-12-12 23:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Jojo Jackson wrote:


That's the main problem.
Ever tryed to use a Large Armor Rep on a Harbinger?

It is FAR to easy to use oversized Shield Boosters!

If you compare a empty Harbinger with just a Med Rep and a empty Hurrican with jus a MED Booster they are similar in HP/S. Harbinger get 51(53) armor/s and Hurrican 54(59) shield/s.
BUT who uses MED Booster? Not even Cruiser fits use MED Booster as it should be! If you find a kill mail with a "only" a Large Booster on a Cyclon you get flaimed allready as it is a "must be" to fit X-Large. The sad part is: THEY FIT! Sure, you lose alot PG and CPU but it is not imposible to fit them. Just for fun try to fit a Large Repair on a Harbinger. It's not posible as you miss over 400 PG WITHOUT anything else fitted!

Fitting requierments for Shield Boosters are simply 100% broken.

Also, What's funny is that you'd need five, yes FIVE medium armor repairers to nearly match the boosting per second an x-large ASB can do on a BC. To match and pass a large ASB on a cruiser you'd need three medium armor repairers and far more PG. I don't even want to look at the amount of capacitor required for the armor repairers to compete.

One classic argument is that shields favor boosting more at once, using more resources at once, and don't last as long while armor tanking has the longevity, but repairs less. The thing is you can stop the shield booster from cycling again. Now ASBs have the longevity as well as using no cap to do it. Sure, you have less mid-slots to use for tank as you need a couple for tackle, but you have an active omni-resistance module and the damage control doesn't take up one of your potential tanking slots. So, why do ASBs get to be so absurdly effective for their fitting with no capacitor use?

Another argument, "the ASB lasts only so long since you have to wait a minute to reload. It's balanced that way." So, fit two of them. One will boost while the other reloads. Either that or put an oversized ASB and a fitting rig on to get twice the boost for the single slot, doubling your longevity. The armor rigs don't do nearly as much as fitting an oversized ASB and fitting rigs. Oh, using the armor rigs also makes the ship slower.

Anyone who says armor tanking is fine is out of their damn mind.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#56 - 2012-12-12 23:20:39 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:

Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp.

Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


How the idiots he was shooting could easily have won that fight:

Give him something supertanked to chew on and warp in at 20+ km, preferably with some heavy alpha.

Like all those maelstroms? Also you aint gonna alpha a vindicator without an entire gang, AND even if he couldn't break you he could just jump through the gate.


Maelstroms at point blank scream either incompetence or an AC fit.

He was tanking in low armor - a high alpha ship like an arty mael could continuously knock him into structure, meaning the damage would keep piling up as he tanked the armor portion. Wouldn't take long to finish the job bleeding through like that.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#57 - 2012-12-12 23:25:02 UTC
like everything related to gallente playstyle

Active armor tanking
Hybrid turrets
Drones

All sucks badly

nothing new under the sun of JIta !!!

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-12-12 23:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
On a 6 midslot shield tanking boat with 4 lows I can fit a damage control, scram prop and 4 tanking modules in my shields. So boost amp invuln and 2 asbs (and maybe a cpu unit in the lows). That is only a scram and prop on your epic tanked ship.

Meanwhile a 5 mid 6 low slot myrmidon has 6 lows for tanking and 5 for cap/ewar. The heavy use of the armor reppers is compensated by the fact I can fit a webifier, have cap boosters in case of heavy cap warfare, and I have no 60 second reload, a fair trade off in my opinion.

If armor reppers took up the same room as a shield booster then the armor tankers have a clear advantage, you have multiple TE's and damage mods along with extra webs.

If a shield tank used all of their midslots then you would only be a bait brick with no point or prop.

Although ASB is just plain OP to.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Perihelion Olenard
#59 - 2012-12-12 23:38:30 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
like everything related to gallente playstyle

Active armor tanking
Hybrid turrets
Drones

All sucks badly

nothing new under the sun of JIta !!!

The thing that makes blasters suck is armor. It's too damn slow and active tanking no longer tanks enough. The myrmidon is an exception since fitting three repairers, two cap boosters, and a MWD causes you to gimp the guns. The damage on that ship is based around the drones, not guns.

Shields are good on gallente ships since you can put plenty of damage and tracking/range modules in the lows. Speed is much better, too.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-13 00:01:39 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
like everything related to gallente playstyle

Active armor tanking
Hybrid turrets
Drones

All sucks badly

nothing new under the sun of JIta !!!

The thing that makes blasters suck is armor. It's too damn slow and active tanking no longer tanks enough. The myrmidon is an exception since fitting three repairers, two cap boosters, and a MWD causes you to gimp the guns. The damage on that ship is based around the drones, not guns.

Shields are good on gallente ships since you can put plenty of damage and tracking/range modules in the lows. Speed is much better, too.

Fit projectiles on your myrms dood

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.