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CCP a response to how you think the drone change has gone down?

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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#21 - 2012-12-12 18:31:12 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Arguably, there was no drone change. There hasn't been a drone change for a very long time. Which I feel is the root of the whole issue.

The AI change, which did affect drones, is fairly nasty. Manageable, which I readily admit, but nasty nonetheless. It did not improve my quality of life or the fun I normally would have (precious little) doing EVE's mind-numbing PvE. When you consider the fact that other weapon systems are arguably more effective and/or efficient, and the fact that other weapon systems are vastly more popular (see EVEKill top 20 ships -> no drone boats!) for a number of reasons, I don't know why this was done to drone users. Feels like kicking someone who is already down, and has been for quite a while.

Drones need an overhaul. A massive one. Starting with the UI, the stats of drones themselves, their combat mechanics - the works. Basically tear-down and rebuild from scratch. Hopefully some of the antiquated paradigms (like the 5-drone limit) can be addressed as well. There was a reason for this when it was introduced (in 2007?) but servers changed since then, and now we have TiDi, so mechanically it shouldn't be a problem any more. And even if it is, I'm sure there's solutions that can be tried.

And yes, like you I would very much like to see any Dev comment on the drone issue. So far, it's been over a week and not a peep from anyone. A simple "we won't be touching drones in near future" would be more than sufficient to let us know, so we can cross-train and stop wasting time. Honestly, if they just told us, openly "If you're a drone user, you're ****ed!" I would be totally fine with that. I just need information! Talk to us!


hey, look the rare person that actively posted constructively on EVE-O

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-12-12 18:32:57 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]







Wah? I tried a L4 the other day with my Navy Geddon, what's the big deal? If you handle things in proper progression, it's not really harder than before. Didn't lose a single sentry. The fact that you actually have to pay attention to them now is really the only change. CCP has already stated the whole room aggro issue was a bug, and they may actually fix it.

If you don't understand how to approach the AI changes, don't blame it on CCP, blame it on your parents.


I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
ashley Eoner
#23 - 2012-12-12 18:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Oh you think it's bad now? Just wait till they fix the defect in the AI that is keeping NPCs from re-targeting your drones after you pull them back in once.


Quote:
Wah? I tried a L4 the other day with my Navy Geddon, what's the big deal? If you handle things in proper progression, it's not really harder than before. Didn't lose a single sentry. The fact that you actually have to pay attention to them now is really the only change. CCP has already stated the whole room aggro issue was a bug, and they may actually fix it.

If you don't understand how to approach the AI changes, don't blame it on CCP, blame it on your parents.
When did the navy geddon turn into a drone boat?

On a serious note "a" level 4 is NOT the same as running "many" level fours or running "most" level fours. I have run over 20 level fours since the change (not sure on the exact amount but I can bang out several every hour. I can tell you that there are several level 4 missions that are outright broken. Room fulls of aggro are fairly common and in some missions that's enough to threaten even my highly tanked rattlesnake (near max skills purger IIs and heavy regen of around 1200 HPS I had to nerf it's tank some to mount ewar/threat stuff like TDs). Add in that some missions have way WAY too much damping and ECM going on and you will quickly find those missions to be either deadly or impossible without help. Just a FYI I have the sensor compensation skill at level 4 and I still get jammed and sometimes a LOT. Once they solve the room pulling, the unnerfed ewar spam and balance the drones better to handle the threat everything will be fine.
Merouk Baas
#24 - 2012-12-12 18:43:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Please stop making threads about the drones.

The situation is this: They put the AI changes on the test server. People immediately brought up the drones. CCP acknowledged it. People continued to be worried about drones if this went live. CCP pushed the AI change live in spite of not having any changes to mission scripts or drones.

What do you want them to say? Yes we know we ****** all you Gallente users, soz too bad. We needed the AI pushed to halt the influx of ISK. Drones will be done later, or never. Suck it up.

Here's the thread with dev responses. Read all 36 pages. Note how FoxFour just fades away when it's clear that the community is getting rather pissed off. That discussion happened when the changes were on the Test server. They pushed them live anyway, despite feedback.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-12-12 18:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Urgg Boolean
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Ooooh, another dronewhine thread. Ill sit this one out and let everyone else take a whack at it.


I just thought I'd point out to him that this thread was already in progress. Nothing more to say here, Falcon et al will be along soon enough to lock it.

Jeez Remiel, you seem to be participating in this thread an aweful lot if there is "nothing more to say". And I'm sure, now that you have declared a need for a thread lock, CCP will jump on it immediately!

Let's stay on topic: The OP was asking CCP's thinking with regard to the players' response to the AI changes. I wish they would give us sign too.
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#26 - 2012-12-12 18:55:43 UTC
They don't care, move on.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-12-12 18:56:39 UTC
There were drone changes in Retribution?

Can you allaborate on those changes please?


I thought there were AI changes that just made the horrible drone mechanics stand out even mroe then they already did.


In otherwords, there's nothing wrong with drones themselves. Drone management is another issue, and they've already said they intend to overahaul the mechanics so that it's not a royal pain in the ass to use drones.

The AI changes are probably the best bet to get drone mechanics done sooner than later.
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#28 - 2012-12-12 18:58:47 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
There were drone changes in Retribution?

Can you allaborate on those changes please?


I thought there were AI changes that just made the horrible drone mechanics stand out even mroe then they already did.


In otherwords, there's nothing wrong with drones themselves. Drone management is another issue, and they've already said they intend to overahaul the mechanics so that it's not a royal pain in the ass to use drones.

The AI changes are probably the best bet to get drone mechanics done sooner than later.



wat?
Merouk Baas
#29 - 2012-12-12 19:04:16 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
The AI changes are probably the best bet to get drone mechanics done sooner than later.


He probably means that now that they've pushed the AI changes and we're complaining with 5 threads per day, maybe CCP will schedule possible changes to drones higher on their to-do list.

I don't expect anything before New Year's. Next summer, really.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-12-12 19:04:51 UTC
CARB0N FIBER wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
There were drone changes in Retribution?

Can you allaborate on those changes please?


I thought there were AI changes that just made the horrible drone mechanics stand out even mroe then they already did.


In otherwords, there's nothing wrong with drones themselves. Drone management is another issue, and they've already said they intend to overahaul the mechanics so that it's not a royal pain in the ass to use drones.

The AI changes are probably the best bet to get drone mechanics done sooner than later.



wat?

What do you mean what?

You need to MANAGE your drones. Drone mechanics make MANAGING drones next to impossible.

Many, many people have repeatedly pointed out, in the other half dozen theads about this since the 4th that if you manage your drones you'll be fine. Managing them, however, is not fine.


The title of the thread is "drone changes".
To my recollectin they didn't actually do anything with drones, they improved the AI -granted, released with a bit of an agro bug-, and they intend to eventually overhaul the drone mechanics, but haven't specified when.

Considering the hassle they already were, the AI changes makes them an even bigger hassle, obviously.
With the amount of trouble people are having managing drones with the upgraded AI, they'll probably move the drone overhaul up on thier priority list as apposed to waiting around to get to it.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#31 - 2012-12-12 19:07:27 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Please stop making threads about the drones.

The situation is this: They put the AI changes on the test server. People immediately brought up the drones. CCP acknowledged it. People continued to be worried about drones if this went live. CCP pushed the AI change live in spite of not having any changes to mission scripts or drones.

What do you want them to say? Yes we know we ****** all you Gallente users, soz too bad. We needed the AI pushed to halt the influx of ISK. Drones will be done later, or never. Suck it up.

Here's the thread with dev responses. Read all 36 pages. Note how FoxFour just fades away when it's clear that the community is getting rather pissed off. That discussion happened when the changes were on the Test server. They pushed them live anyway, despite feedback.


Your summary is pretty accurate, as I have been living in that thread for some time.
But you are off on one point.

At no time did CCP acknowledge this was to be an attack on ISK generation.
They have wanted that all along, and are giggling like school girls about the devastation they have wrought on ISK generation, but they have NEVER publicly acknowledged or stated that was the main thrust of this change.

Further, it is complete lie that there is a need to wipe out ISK generation.
Their own dev's just released a blog stating that outside of plex prices, the Eve economy is experiencing a DEFLATIONARY period.

What is far more telling is how the damage to null sec income was mitigated for this release.
1.CCP Fox Four stated back in November that plex structures (eg. Neut towers, Citadel Torps, web Towers) would not have the new AI applied to them. The vast, vast. vast majority of plexes this impacts are found in deep low sec and null sec.
2. CCP also changed (was announced in the blogs) that all Citadel Torps would now do the same type of damage associated with the rats in a plex. (ie. Sanshas to EM, Guristas do Kin, etc).
There was a thread created supposedly by a null sec plexer immediately after this was tested on Duality.
In that thread he complained that the Plexes he was running in null sec were now TOO EASY, not too hard.

So let's recap:
Mission running, primarily a high sec function, is hammered into the ground.
Plex running, primarily a null sec function, has changes made to them to mitigate the damage done to ISK generation in them.
And CCP does not say a word about any of this.
Ayx Shewma
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-12-12 19:16:58 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.


Thats just it, I dont fail at drones :) I cant be arsed to pull sentries every 5 seconds. The game begins to get boring fast.

In fact its fair to assume that tracking and speed need to be looked at because how a cruiser tracks anything going 5000 MS is beyond me :P





Generally, when considering human behavior, people get 'bored' when there is a lack of activity.

Congratulations on your unprecedented achievement as the first human to get 'bored' by an increase in stuff to do. You truly are a marvel.
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#33 - 2012-12-12 19:22:25 UTC
Ayx Shewma wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.


Thats just it, I dont fail at drones :) I cant be arsed to pull sentries every 5 seconds. The game begins to get boring fast.

In fact its fair to assume that tracking and speed need to be looked at because how a cruiser tracks anything going 5000 MS is beyond me :P





Generally, when considering human behavior, people get 'bored' when there is a lack of activity.

Congratulations on your unprecedented achievement as the first human to get 'bored' by an increase in stuff to do. You truly are a marvel.

repetitive behavior is boring, even if there is more of it. Big smile
Ginger Barbarella
#34 - 2012-12-12 19:25:19 UTC
What would be fun to see (oh, the tears!) would be if drone boat NPCs were given the ability to "hack" player drones, setting them against the pilot, requiring recall.

That would be seriously sweet. Twisted

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Blind Phew
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-12-12 20:07:28 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Honestly, this making a new thread just to get their attention is no different from a child throwing a tantrum for the same thing.

AWWWW MOM!!!!!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#36 - 2012-12-12 20:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Merouk Baas wrote:
Please stop making threads about the drones.

The situation is this: They put the AI changes on the test server. People immediately brought up the drones. CCP acknowledged it. People continued to be worried about drones if this went live. CCP pushed the AI change live in spite of not having any changes to mission scripts or drones.

What do you want them to say? Yes we know we ****** all you Gallente users, soz too bad. We needed the AI pushed to halt the influx of ISK. Drones will be done later, or never. Suck it up.

Here's the thread with dev responses. Read all 36 pages. Note how FoxFour just fades away when it's clear that the community is getting rather pissed off. That discussion happened when the changes were on the Test server. They pushed them live anyway, despite feedback.


Your summary is pretty accurate, as I have been living in that thread for some time.
But you are off on one point.

At no time did CCP acknowledge this was to be an attack on ISK generation.
They have wanted that all along, and are giggling like school girls about the devastation they have wrought on ISK generation, but they have NEVER publicly acknowledged or stated that was the main thrust of this change.

Further, it is complete lie that there is a need to wipe out ISK generation.
Their own dev's just released a blog stating that outside of plex prices, the Eve economy is experiencing a DEFLATIONARY period.

What is far more telling is how the damage to null sec income was mitigated for this release.
1.CCP Fox Four stated back in November that plex structures (eg. Neut towers, Citadel Torps, web Towers) would not have the new AI applied to them. The vast, vast. vast majority of plexes this impacts are found in deep low sec and null sec.
2. CCP also changed (was announced in the blogs) that all Citadel Torps would now do the same type of damage associated with the rats in a plex. (ie. Sanshas to EM, Guristas do Kin, etc).
There was a thread created supposedly by a null sec plexer immediately after this was tested on Duality.
In that thread he complained that the Plexes he was running in null sec were now TOO EASY, not too hard.

So let's recap:
Mission running, primarily a high sec function, is hammered into the ground.
Plex running, primarily a null sec function, has changes made to them to mitigate the damage done to ISK generation in them.
And CCP does not say a word about any of this.


Doesn't that tinfoil hat ever start to itch?

Not applying the AI to overseer structures and towers (that god the neut towers in fleet staging points don't switch) was a concession, but it took a LONG time of point out the problem before they did that.

and that's all the fixed, plexes like Blood Raider Naval Shipyard (with it's 20 battleships in the last room) are insane even for well organized Incursion like fleets, even though you can hold aggro from the torp chucking station.

And the change to the damage done from the Citadel torps didn't come from FoxFour's team, it was just something thrown in by someone else.

If you could get over you irrational paranoia against null sec for one second (or hell, just take your medication, I know you have some) you'd see that the way CCP went about this had a negative (if not game breaking) affect on many of us all over the place, not just high sec.

Hellfire, losing DRONES in high sec lvl 4s doesn't hold a candle to losing FIGHTERs in low sec lvl 5s or Faction battleships in a null plex (yes I lost a rattlesnake in an attempt to figure out a plex, funny thing is the plex dropped a Bhaalgorn BPC, didn't want that snake noways).
starbelt stacy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-12-12 20:18:36 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]







CCP want PvE to be nerfed partly due to the null-sec whiners stamping their feet and throwing a hissy fit, and also to nerf your hi-sec income, so you either buy plex or move to null-sec to become blob fodder for the ego stroking elite in EvE, which you will end up being forced to buy plex anyhoo due to not being left alone in peace to make isk due to above mentioned ego strokers blobbing / griefing you.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#38 - 2012-12-12 20:19:59 UTC
starbelt stacy wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]




CCP want PvE to be nerfed partly due to the null-sec whiners stamping their feet and throwing a hissy fit, and also to nerf your hi-sec income, so you either buy plex or move to null-sec to become blob fodder for the ego stroking elite in EvE, which you will end up being forced to buy plex anyhoo due to not being left alone in peace to make isk due to above mentioned ego strokers blobbing / griefing you.



Screw trying to fight it, ima go get me a tinfoil hat now too.
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#39 - 2012-12-12 20:31:07 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
This isnt a rant though so it should be allowed to continue.

I have an issue with threads getting locked constantly because in my eyes that's a sure sign of knowing they've done wrong and don't want to comment or have their game look bad.

What do server hosters in FPS game do to better players? they get kickbanned...because the bad player hates looking bad.

Same here in truth. I think the community should have a place to say what they think, more so we have a right to voice our opinion as its us directly funding CCP as a company.

Without us CCP liquidates.

Its that simple.


It's a redundant thread. Already in progress. You don't start a new one, you add your "not a rant" to an existing one.

They will lock it because it's not necessary, this discussion is already taking place. They're not trying to silence anyone, they lock redundant threads to keep the front page of the forums clear for as many topics open for discussion as possible. Why don't you check a few out, you might find the one you are looking for.



Most of them are locked because of trolls like you. The OP has an issue and he has started a discussion. Let him do it - also try to find a more constructive way of living your life instead of trying to be a **** to others.
starbelt stacy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-12-12 20:31:34 UTC
no tin foil hat needed... what i said is based on fact.

just wait til the next patch comes out and hi-sec incomes will be nerfed further until the game becomes so niche it will die out due to not having enough subscribers and we will all see the announcements of eve online servers finally being shut down.