EVE General Discussion

If nullbears want to make null more lucrative/fun/interesting then I'm all for it. I just don't see any logical reason why every last one of their plans to do this seems to revolve around nerfing hisec. Illogical reasons, sure - no shortage of those, as we've all seen. Most are downright frothy.

It's simple: More carrot, less stick. Positive reinforcement, not negative. CCP, please make nullsec into the paradise that nullbears have always dreamed of. Maybe then we can stop hearing them whine about nerfing hisec all the time.

Oh who are we kidding - they'll still whine, but at least they'll be easier to ignore when they have no legs left to stand on.

Even I agree with this one. As it stands now, refining efficiency in a NPC station has a lot to do with your standings with that station's owner, and getting those standings takes time. But compared to that, getting your actual refining skill to 0% loss is actually kind of easy.

Now the advantage of refining in a POS is that your standings are no longer an issue (unless you schitzoid or something) but you need a lot more refining skill to get the same kind of output - and refining takes time, as opposed to instant like with a NPC station. Did I get that part right?

So to me the solution (in this case) would be: Make POS have an inherent refining skill boost, to make it actually more efficient than a NPC station at the same skill level. Note that this does not require nerfing the NPC station - it's simply buffing the POS to be better - hopefully better enough to make it worth the cost. POS should have better waste reduction, not less.

Or a hisec nerf that I could live with would be putting NPC stations on refining cycles, same as POS suffers from. That would create a time-centered bottleneck on just how much output any one miner can have in a day. Or you could just get rid of the POS timers all together - not like anyone would miss them, after all.

You can do that same kind of bonus with building things in a POS, too. You could give POS a bonus in ME to it's users, thus allowing them to build more stuff with fewer minerals. Or bonuses in research speed and the like. Bonus to construction times for ships & equipment made there (free PE points).

In other words, make null/low POS operation more appealing because they'd be more efficient than Empire NPC stations. POS would be more than just something that sucks out moon goo and might have a refinery on the side. A POS with enough upgrades (aha - new game mechanics possibilities here) that puts the NPC station to shame would be a good reason to have a POS just for mining & industry alone.

Again, none of this is about nerfing hisec - it's just buffing the POS mechanics to make living in low/null to use them very, very appealing. If a top-tier POS shipyard could cram in enough upgrades to get 0% loss on refining even to newbie pilots and build anything you want for 20% less minerals than the BPO says... heck, you'd get a flood of people signing up to your low/null corp.

Hop to it, CCP!

i spent some time in null sec a couple of years ago, don't miss that time, and am never even going to consider going back until the logistics problems are fixed

specifically null sec industry and logistics needed a lot of attention, and was INCREDIBLY boring, on top of that it's ALSO less efficient?
i'm opting out of this one CCP, instantly and permanently
null may be much more money, but it's NOT REMOTELY worth the logistics pain

a lot of suggestions involve nerfing high sec, but that wont fix things, breaking high sec will just result in both high and low sec being broken, it wont move people to low sec, it will JUST make people quit, and result in not much else

much better would be to start with making refining instant, and equal to high sec, the wait is frustrating, the inefficiency annoying, the hauling to MAKE it efficient, a complete pain

manufacturing i also dont get, what precicely is wrong with making null manufacturing capacity of simple things like ammo, and T1 ships and items, equal to that of high sec?

does ANYONE actually enjoy hauling basic supplies?

edit:
but again, making high sec share the problems of null sec, will NOT fix null sec, it will just result in BOTH areas being broken, and MORE people being frustrated, not less

Personally I think NPC refineries should go to 30% base maximum and POS and outposts should go to a 50% base.

But I do like the refinary being on a que basis as well that kind of makes sense compared to the magical, oh its done now one.

At base 30% you need
Refining V
Refining Efficiency V
and ore processing V

You get 91.9% refine. You can also get an implant for an extra 4%

so 95.9% max for NPC which is actually not bad at all if you want a cheaper alternative than your own POS or outpost.