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Some New Mining Ideas
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Aravinth
Lithium Financial and Exploration
#21 - 2012-12-12 10:47:59 UTC
This needs to be read more! =D

-Ara
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#22 - 2012-12-12 13:10:30 UTC
While I kinda like the idea, I guess it would demand a level of flexibility for the game engine that just isn't there...

The game is great when it comes to generate static or semi static objects, but that's about it. You'd need a far more sophisticated physics model taking into account things like mass, inertia and centrifugal powers, the possibility of collisions and power transmission, etc. to make soemthing like that happen. The system that is in place right now only simulates that, at best...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Aravinth
Lithium Financial and Exploration
#23 - 2012-12-15 17:04:06 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
You'd need a far more sophisticated physics model taking into account things like mass, inertia and centrifugal powers, the possibility of collisions and power transmission, etc. to make soemthing like that happen. The system that is in place right now only simulates that, at best...


The hardware needed to implement real physicis on that many small items in that many systems would definitely crash Tranquility. This is something that could be looked at in the next 10 years, but thats pretty extreme realism.

Shalua Rui wrote:
The game is great when it comes to generate static or semi static objects, but that's about it.


To my understanding semistatic objects, like planets orbit the stars. If the asteroid belt was on the planetary scale, it would then be treated as 1 entity so it doesn't totally trash the servers.

This discussion is fun lets have more of it!

-Ara
Dreusyla Arashi
LitlCorp
#24 - 2012-12-15 18:17:55 UTC
god not another idiotic make mining better post...
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-12-15 19:00:07 UTC
If it's boring and you have no reason to do it .. why mine? Why change that? If it's so boring that fewer people mine the prices will go up. then that will attract people to mine. New mining event style activities are coming. I do not think ccp should remove the basic mining belts in favor of replacing it with some carpel tunnel producing meta game activity. Instead, make other more lucrative mining activity more fun and difficult.

Variety is the spice of life - the spice must flow.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Aravinth
Lithium Financial and Exploration
#26 - 2013-01-19 03:54:15 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
If it's boring and you have no reason to do it .. why mine? Why change that? If it's so boring that fewer people mine the prices will go up. then that will attract people to mine. New mining event style activities are coming. I do not think ccp should remove the basic mining belts in favor of replacing it with some carpel tunnel producing meta game activity. Instead, make other more lucrative mining activity more fun and difficult.

Variety is the spice of life - the spice must flow.


Mining isn't boring, and I'm not calling for a complete change of the game, I would actually like for them to keep the existing 'Belts' in the game, just add another variety of play. =D

And if you're getting carpel tunnel playing eve, you're doing it wrong.

-Ara
androch
LitlCorp
#27 - 2013-01-19 09:07:10 UTC
please.. stop reviving this god-aweful topic
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#28 - 2013-01-19 09:31:31 UTC
Asteroids that move? That sounds realistic. While CCP is at it, they can make planets, moons, and everything that anchors to them move as well. Starbases can orbit around moons, moons can orbit around planets, planets can orbit around the sun... It just gets better and better, doesn't it? And that is why realism is good for EVE Online.

This doesn't solve anything, it just makes you have to do more work. Just as boring, but more tedious.

We can say that ships are moving along with the celestials at the same speed and in the same direction, because that works just fine for realism. If something seems to orbit, yet other things don't (including us), it just makes it seem less realistic.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Juan Thang
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#29 - 2013-01-19 22:04:59 UTC
I like this but maybe make it so the belts are static or moving depending on if the planet or where it is in system, so all us boring miners can be boring :P
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-01-20 01:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
I'm certainly not concerned with changing current mining techniques or mechanics, but a visual change might be nice. Currently Asteroid belts are toruses of varied diameters, as everyone knows. Real Aseroid belts aren't uniform in with their content, theres certain clumping areas. for visuals sake, you have established "belts" but with certain warp in points equal to the number of belts in system, representing clumping points of that belt.
The belts do not need to have any kind of extra movement, while it may be realistic, I'm really caring only about some visuals here after all, real asteroids do not actaully have the same orbital path. They would wander in different eliptical orbits, resulting in translation relative to their neighbors in various forms due to basic orbital mechanics; eg. orbital incliniation, eccentricity, semi major axis, longitude of ascending node etc.. stupid amonts of number crunching, not needed in this game, beside which such obvious changes would take a deal more time to really be observed than is spent mining in one place.
Again focus on visuals, a string of big rocks stretching into the distance, only some of which are really useful. The clumping points of that belt, the warp in points would be where the useful asteroids are. Not where all of them are, just the ones that are actually worth something to the markets, and therefore your time. Asteroids should not even dissapear, but remain where they are at the size they are and merely be depleted.
How will i find out if its any good and worth mining? You have scanners for that.

Anomalys could be around gas giants, as the trojans and the greeks are with jupiter. again anoms just represent the clumping points of those particular masses of useful rock.

I don't want a new mining system, a new visual experience is good enough. this wouldn't change a thing, apart from requiring miners to actually have mining composition scanners. okay, minus one mid slot for tanking, not quite an unacceptable loss.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Aravinth
Lithium Financial and Exploration
#31 - 2013-01-25 06:21:57 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
I'm certainly not concerned with changing current mining techniques or mechanics, but a visual change might be nice. Currently Asteroid belts are toruses of varied diameters, as everyone knows. Real Aseroid belts aren't uniform in with their content, theres certain clumping areas. for visuals sake, you have established "belts" but with certain warp in points equal to the number of belts in system, representing clumping points of that belt.
The belts do not need to have any kind of extra movement, while it may be realistic, I'm really caring only about some visuals here after all, real asteroids do not actaully have the same orbital path. They would wander in different eliptical orbits, resulting in translation relative to their neighbors in various forms due to basic orbital mechanics; eg. orbital incliniation, eccentricity, semi major axis, longitude of ascending node etc.. stupid amonts of number crunching, not needed in this game, beside which such obvious changes would take a deal more time to really be observed than is spent mining in one place.
Again focus on visuals, a string of big rocks stretching into the distance, only some of which are really useful. The clumping points of that belt, the warp in points would be where the useful asteroids are. Not where all of them are, just the ones that are actually worth something to the markets, and therefore your time. Asteroids should not even dissapear, but remain where they are at the size they are and merely be depleted.
How will i find out if its any good and worth mining? You have scanners for that.

Anomalys could be around gas giants, as the trojans and the greeks are with jupiter. again anoms just represent the clumping points of those particular masses of useful rock.

I don't want a new mining system, a new visual experience is good enough. this wouldn't change a thing, apart from requiring miners to actually have mining composition scanners. okay, minus one mid slot for tanking, not quite an unacceptable loss.



Oh ya see thats a great way to look at it as well, there are lots of ideas that can be included in here this for one I like! It would remind me of the already large icefields they have in the game. =) A great constructive comment! Keep up the ideas everyone!

-Ara
Serina Tsukaya
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#32 - 2013-01-25 10:12:44 UTC
Replace astroid belts with planet belts, make it so that you need to scout out and find good patches of minerals. instead of rats randomly jumping into the fields, have them do partrols in the planet belts instead.
chopper14
Emo Rage Quit
#33 - 2013-01-26 03:03:09 UTC
I love it. I have been tinkering with a similar idea.

My idea had more to do with killing Bot mining but other than that almost the same thing.

I called it roid plotting because the idea behind it was that governments would actually Have plots where the public was allowed to mine.
Corps with better standings would have access to better "industrial permitted" plots etc.

You could have the roids flow through like a river and then disappear out the other side unless someone was in visual range. As long as there is someone present you could follow the asteroids indefinitely.
I got this idea from the double slit experiment shown on the movie "down the rabbit hole, what the bleep do we know"

My idea is based on the roids moving fast enough that you would have to follow them to successfully achieve a mining cycle. Basically you don't move you don't mine.

This would force people to start at the beginning where the roids come in. They could then choose to continue mining that roid as it flows down stream, and they could follow that patch of roids even after it left the legal mining zone.

the idea was that anyone leaving the plot would be breaking the law and would Recieve a warning and if the warning was ignored 1 of 2 consequences would happen.

As long as they turned off their mining lasers they would just get a sec hit. But if they continued mining out side of the plot, they would Recieve a flag making them a legal target.

This system would cause miners to operate in a typewriter fashion. Slowly mining to one end of the belt and then warping back to the start.

Someone who was botting would have a better chance of getting flushed out of the plot as they followed roids out of the plot, Where cloaked pirates would be likely waiting for them.

Even if they found a way to overcome the series of obstacles that comes with mining a moving target In a confined space their efficiency would be less than someone who was actively mining.

The part I really liked about this system though, is how it would encourage miners to go to low sec.

Besides low sec minerals being better, In high sec there is almost always someone in local so you would never know if someone was cloaked waiting for you to slip up.

In low sec however there are lots of empty systems where you could wander out of the plot at will and warp to safety as soon as someone came in to local or if your brave you could track them on d-scan and watch for probes or cloak, as you would not be on any warpable beacon after leaving the plot.

The other thing I like about it is how it encourages lawbreaking. Which also helps push people towards lower sec ;)
Luc Chastot
#34 - 2013-01-26 05:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Luc Chastot
Interesting; maybe all asteroids in a belt could move in one direction, so miners with strips could pick asteroids and move beside them as they run their cycles, or join with another barge and do some ring mining inside the belt (moving in the oposite direction?) with the net thing CCP suggested during the last fanfest? Orcas could serve 2 purposes then, as booster platforms and asteroid grabbers (using tractor beams to take asteroids out of their orbits).

Such belts could have the more common ores on the outside, where it is safer, and the rarer ones inside (maybe including moon goo), where there is more risk. Doing this would mean that, if you wanna mine the rarest ores, you should either use a Venture to safely navigate the chaos inside the belt, use an Orca to pull the rare roids outside the belt (maybe losing some ore in the process) or team with another barge/exhumer and ring mine.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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