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Running missions post patch is deadly.
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Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-12-11 13:11:30 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
Has anyone tried doing missions with multiple BS?

How does the aggro mechanic with multiple BSs on the grid?


I used a BC and BS last night, both targets locked by the same NPCs across the field. Only one being shot at...I *think*.....possible rang issue clouding that as the BC was boring in for the small fish.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-12-11 15:49:46 UTC
BigSticky Nuggets wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Kill scram frigs, then warp in and out as needed.


Thanks for the completely off-topic and invalid post.


You obviously don't understand what I mean. The issue is not scramming frigates the issue is when you warp into any mission every single ship on the screen automatically aggros you without you doing anything to draw that aggro.

Buy a better tank and do the missions slower.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Mund Richard
#63 - 2012-12-11 15:58:29 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
BigSticky Nuggets wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Kill scram frigs, then warp in and out as needed.


Thanks for the completely off-topic and invalid post.

You obviously don't understand what I mean. The issue is not scramming frigates the issue is when you warp into any mission every single ship on the screen automatically aggros you without you doing anything to draw that aggro.

Buy a better tank and do the missions slower.
And possibly use EWAR/RR as you can fit for great success.

Still, some rooms weren't designed with that damage in mind, and it makes a lot of missions quite hard to complete with ships that could it before.
Also more expensive? Why would a player have to spend hard-earned isk into pimping his ride, when he does L4s possibly for getting ISK, and not spending it. Roll
(Although, a well-but-not-over-pimped ride may be a good investment.)

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#64 - 2012-12-11 20:02:00 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
BigSticky Nuggets wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Kill scram frigs, then warp in and out as needed.


Thanks for the completely off-topic and invalid post.

You obviously don't understand what I mean. The issue is not scramming frigates the issue is when you warp into any mission every single ship on the screen automatically aggros you without you doing anything to draw that aggro.

Buy a better tank and do the missions slower.
And possibly use EWAR/RR as you can fit for great success.

Still, some rooms weren't designed with that damage in mind, and it makes a lot of missions quite hard to complete with ships that could it before.
Also more expensive? Why would a player have to spend hard-earned isk into pimping his ride, when he does L4s possibly for getting ISK, and not spending it. Roll
(Although, a well-but-not-over-pimped ride may be a good investment.)


So a few things...

You can only tank certain ships to do every mission with full room agro. 2k+ tank is required, most ships cant attain that even with officer mods. The ones that can do it have **** DPS.

The catch 22 is that you need money to buy the ship/tank to do the mission, but cant make the money because of the bug.

If they wanted to make missions "realistic", I would be all for it. 1v1 a bad guy in a BS for a big bounty and a chance at decent salvage. Group missions for bigger rewards, etc.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Mund Richard
#65 - 2012-12-11 20:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Cipher Jones wrote:
You can only tank certain ships to do every mission with full room agro. 2k+ tank is required, most ships cant attain that even with officer mods. The ones that can do it have **** DPS.

The catch 22 is that you need money to buy the ship/tank to do the mission, but cant make the money because of the bug.

If they wanted to make missions "realistic", I would be all for it. 1v1 a bad guy in a BS for a big bounty and a chance at decent salvage. Group missions for bigger rewards, etc.

2k+ tank is over the top.
In serpentis space, I did missions with a tank between 1-1.5k, the 1.5k tank only got close to being breached once, in assault full room agro hitting the triggers on purpose.

On the other hand, one of the mission fits I used to be in awe of tanks some 600.
Mach moving too fast to be caught.
Ofc if it's caught, it's dead, and with the full room bug, it's not as unlikely as many would probably prefer.
However, with the AI as it is now, releasing a flight of light drones on the scrambling frigs, they should die, you can pull range, and still have as many drones available as bandwidth allows, if I remember correctly.

If someone wants a tanky setup while still on low SP, Abaddon/NApoc against amarr rats, SNI/Rokh for caldari, Domi/Hyper for Gallente, and Mael for minnie should be doable.
Also, sniping with MJD for added flexibility?

But as the AI is now, not much fun in the harder ones. Or quite a lot, depending on from where you look at it. Roll


"Realistic" missions...
Closest to realistic is Sleepers I think, as they have a totally different technology, and as such, you can explain anything working differently with that excuse.
In empire space, unless using deadspace stuff, there is none such. And facing off against a battleship with a support cruiser and two tackling frigs as a HARD mission would be too much of a change for many to stomach I'd think.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#66 - 2012-12-11 20:54:05 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
2k+ tank is required


No it's not. You can always take the option of warping out, repairing and returning.

Also their DPS output relaxes significantly as you work your way through the mission, also known as Gun Tanking.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Lugalzagezi666
#67 - 2012-12-11 21:02:49 UTC
Yeah, good luck getting out when pointed and webbed by 8 arch gistii frigs. And gl with your isk/h when you base your tank on warping around system.Roll
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#68 - 2012-12-11 22:19:28 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Yeah, good luck getting out when pointed and webbed by 8 arch gistii frigs. And gl with your isk/h when you base your tank on warping around system.Roll



If you can't kill tackle frigates then you shouldn't be doing these missions.

And you don't need to warp out vs Cartel, they're guntanked. You warp out when you can't actually shoot anything for long periods.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Mund Richard
#69 - 2012-12-11 22:21:17 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You warp out when you can't actually shoot anything for long periods.

I never warped out because I couldn't shoot anything, only because there was too much to choose from.

And ofc they in return all chose me.
I just couldn't handle the popularity.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#70 - 2012-12-11 22:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Mund Richard wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You warp out when you can't actually shoot anything for long periods.

I never warped out because I couldn't shoot anything, only because there was too much to choose from.

And ofc they in return all chose me.
I just couldn't handle the popularity.


I've not had that problem since I was capable of 1-2 shotting anything smaller than a Battleship. You can pick light tank high damage targets that will die quickly and drastically reduce their outcoming dps.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Sammybear
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#71 - 2012-12-11 22:29:52 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You warp out when you can't actually shoot anything for long periods.

I never warped out because I couldn't shoot anything, only because there was too much to choose from.

And ofc they in return all chose me.
I just couldn't handle the popularity.


I've not had that problem since I was capable of 1-2 shotting anything smaller than a Battleship. You can pick light tank high damage targets that will die quickly and drastically reduce their outcoming dps.


It is not really the fact of not being able to 1 shot them, it is in certain missions where they all basically start out in their prime orbit (WC is a good example mission, where all 8 frigs are on you and less than 10k orbit before you can target them). Just relying on gun skills and drones can get hairy in these situations. Possible solutions being using a smartbomb or using the MJD.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#72 - 2012-12-11 22:37:19 UTC
Sammybear wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You warp out when you can't actually shoot anything for long periods.

I never warped out because I couldn't shoot anything, only because there was too much to choose from.

And ofc they in return all chose me.
I just couldn't handle the popularity.


I've not had that problem since I was capable of 1-2 shotting anything smaller than a Battleship. You can pick light tank high damage targets that will die quickly and drastically reduce their outcoming dps.


It is not really the fact of not being able to 1 shot them, it is in certain missions where they all basically start out in their prime orbit (WC is a good example mission, where all 8 frigs are on you and less than 10k orbit before you can target them). Just relying on gun skills and drones can get hairy in these situations. Possible solutions being using a smartbomb or using the MJD.


WC has been weird for me post patch, the groups are warping in with a delayed effect rather than being there on spawn, so I haven't had a realistic test of it.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Mund Richard
#73 - 2012-12-11 22:39:30 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
WC has been weird for me post patch, the groups are warping in with a delayed effect rather than being there on spawn, so I haven't had a realistic test of it.
It did that to me pre-patch as well.
Maybe not always, but I do remember going "huh?'" over it.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Sammybear
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#74 - 2012-12-11 22:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sammybear
Caellach Marellus wrote:


WC has been weird for me post patch, the groups are warping in with a delayed effect rather than being there on spawn, so I haven't had a realistic test of it.



I get pointed and webbed by 6 frigs and webbed by the other 2 as soon as i warp into the 2nd room (the first single faction room). I can deal with them easily, but definitely not by shooting or with drones (elite frigs eat my drones as soon as my drones take the first shot, i might just be really unlucky lol)
Lugalzagezi666
#75 - 2012-12-11 22:46:13 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
so I haven't had a realistic test of it.

If you havernt had a realistic test, then you shouldnt spam bullshit about these missions here.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#76 - 2012-12-11 22:49:30 UTC
Sammybear wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


WC has been weird for me post patch, the groups are warping in with a delayed effect rather than being there on spawn, so I haven't had a realistic test of it.



I get pointed and webbed by 6 frigs and webbed by the other 2 as soon as i warp into the 2nd room (the first single faction room). I can deal with them easily, but definitely not by shooting or with drones (elite frigs eat my drones as soon as my drones take the first shot, i might just be really unlucky lol)


I've found in other missions the best thing I can do with short range frigates is primary one of the tackles for the Drones, web it before hand. Put ship guns on one of the larger targets, each NPC seems to develop an assessment of "Most threatening" as to which ship they choose 9/10 with the odd time being random switches to other people. Deploy drones and go for target, recall after target's down, reweb/launch and repeat.

I'm blessed with a pretty strong tanked ship (Marauder V and repair rigs are awesome for boosting a tank) so I can overheat if needed to get past the initial burst. That said, once the full room aggro bug is fixed, many issues will be resolved.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Mund Richard
#77 - 2012-12-11 22:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Marauder V and repair rigs

I see...
So not quite in the same position as those who post for the "don't make low SP players unable to do L4 missions" agenda.

edit to below:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Serpentis Assault is pretty damn realistic, considering the scenario of 8+ sensordamps instantly on you in the first room.

Yes indeed!

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#78 - 2012-12-11 22:53:57 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
so I haven't had a realistic test of it.

If you havernt had a realistic test, then you shouldnt spam bullshit about these missions here.


Serpentis Assault is pretty damn realistic, considering the scenario of 8+ sensordamps instantly on you in the first room.

Perhaps you should quit with the overdramatic qq that's gone beyond a bug related to NPC aggression and just becomes pointless QQ from someone who needs to learn to adapt.

I've been making plenty of isk post patch, this expansion has hampered it somewhat due to the full room aggro bug in certain scenarios with high lock out e-war scenarios. But it's not suddenly made missions "impossible" nor has my ship suddenly been at a giant risk of loss. So sorry I can't nod and agree with your QQ, mainly because it's as you put it so delicately "bullshit."

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Sammybear
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#79 - 2012-12-11 22:54:10 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Sammybear wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:


WC has been weird for me post patch, the groups are warping in with a delayed effect rather than being there on spawn, so I haven't had a realistic test of it.



I get pointed and webbed by 6 frigs and webbed by the other 2 as soon as i warp into the 2nd room (the first single faction room). I can deal with them easily, but definitely not by shooting or with drones (elite frigs eat my drones as soon as my drones take the first shot, i might just be really unlucky lol)


I've found in other missions the best thing I can do with short range frigates is primary one of the tackles for the Drones, web it before hand. Put ship guns on one of the larger targets, each NPC seems to develop an assessment of "Most threatening" as to which ship they choose 9/10 with the odd time being random switches to other people. Deploy drones and go for target, recall after target's down, reweb/launch and repeat.

I'm blessed with a pretty strong tanked ship (Marauder V and repair rigs are awesome for boosting a tank) so I can overheat if needed to get past the initial burst. That said, once the full room aggro bug is fixed, many issues will be resolved.


So far my fav tactic is to use a faction smartbomb on the close orbit frigs and just shoot everything else. If any frigs are past my smartbomb range ill send drones out for them as soon as the close orbit frigs are dead. After that it is a cakewalk.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#80 - 2012-12-11 22:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Mund Richard wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Marauder V and repair rigs

I see...
So not quite in the same position as those who post for the "don't make low SP players unable to do L4 missions" agenda.


That's not this thread. But yes I can sympathise with those people really struggling with the fullroom aggro bug, but grouping up for missions is not exactly a non viable prospect.

What I can't sympathise with is people who have been playing 2+ years and QQing because they can't lazyarse their way through missions anymore.

Edit:

Sammybear wrote:

So far my fav tactic is to use a faction smartbomb on the close orbit frigs and just shoot everything else. If any frigs are past my smartbomb range ill send drones out for them as soon as the close orbit frigs are dead. After that it is a cakewalk.



Viable, but risky, personally after watching a friend get CONCORDOKKEN by some ninja salvager warping in on her mission and losing her shiny Vargur.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.