Jita Park Speakers Corner

Never said you did :)

Just pointed out that I didn't understand your "minimum wage" stuff, and stated that I agreed with cores two. Minimum Wagemhere in Australia is a legal requirement for wages to be above X, not an economic observation of what people earn. Perhaps that can inform my confusion about the words that you wrote.

Now I have read it a few time, I see you are proposing "wage" as a metric: a means of comparing those activities that players can engage in which will result in their wallet balance getting bigger (sources and drains for the personal wallet as opposed to faucets and sinks for the entire game's economy). Perhaps you feel that being able to compare income streams in terms of "keyboard hours per PLEX" will help balance the economy better?

So I guess the "minimum wage" indicator would have to be the price of a PLEX divided by the average hours per month pursued doing exclusively ISK-for-PLEX activities, for those accounts funded by PLEX.

How do you adjust things so that station traders have to spend as much time making their ISK as everyone else does? Do we introduce per diems?

How do you model moon goo income to work in this scenario? Does it count as personal, corporate or alliance income?

What impact would a limit of hours per month have on PLEX? What if a 30 day PLEX came with 100 hours of free logged-in time which would roll-over, and a PLEX could be redeemed for another 100 hours of cumulative hours? Would players react by trending towards the highest ISK/hr activities? Would AFK mining stop? Would bottling dry up? Is 6M ISK/hr average too high for people to sustain their subscriptions? Would the restrictions on hours cause PLEX prices to fall, are AFK miners actually the main pressure on PLEX prices?

Inferno and the crazy isk from fw came out in may. The price of plex in jita shows that it was steady through may june july august and started to go up in september. But it hasn't gone down despite the october 22 change that ended the big money in faction war.

You would think it would since people will supposedly no longer be creating new accounts to farm fw. Who is now using the plex that people were running alt accounts on?

I tend to agree with Cyprus. The out of game economy likely has more to do with plex prices than ingame changes. As the out of game economy goes down people will find it harder to justify paying monthly fees - let alone be out of work and have lots of time to play eve. Moreover fewer people will have extra money to justify buying plex that they can trade in for virtual space ship items. Result = more demand for plex and less supply! This drives up prices.

What you are doing is trying to set a permanant value on isk. You are trying to say somethign like 50 million isk is worth 1 hour of grinding. But that is like saying 15 dollars should be worth 1 hour of real work. You can't force that on real and complex economies.

That said I do think there is something to be said for the idea that if isk is really easy to get by doing incursions or fw then there will be more people getting accounts and getting more money. They will want to fund those accounts with plex (increase demand) and they will use those accounts to more than break allowing the prices to increase. But the thing is this should balance out. I mean if people are making billions of isk per hour and they are willing to pay large amounts then more people will put up the $17 to get the plex and supply it.

CCP purposefully makes the new features pay allot of money so that the player base will try new things in eve. They did this with incursions and the new faction war. This will mean the players will have experience doing more things in eve and will stay longer. Its not a bad idea from a business perspective. The diehards of eve will always learn to milk the new system and keep their farm alts going. Those who are more casual will sell the plex to them for the convenience of not having to learn a new part of the game they are not interested in.

I would argue that a "current minimum wage" metric would have to include all flows of ISK into and out of player wallets, not the economy as a whole. If a person makes enough ISK each month through station trading to fund their PLEX habit and still have PvP ships to fly, shouldn't that contribute to the "minimum wage" metric in some way?



I humbly suggest that a PLEX with a quota of hours equal to the average+1σ would only impact AFK miners and AFK cloakers.



AFK mining is not just injecting high volumes of ore into the game, it is also devaluing the profession of mining. It would be interesting to see some numbers of how much of the extra ore being recovered these days is coming from Mackinaws specifically.



The devblog on Macks indicates that CCP was focussed on streams of ore flowing into the game, not income streams of individual pilots. Someone is studying the economy through a microscope, and thinks that this elephant is entirely composed of rough grey patches of skin.

By the same token, you and corestwo are studying the economy from the perspective of a nullsec resident who wants to improve life for nullsec (or even just yourselves), without regard to the rest of the economy. The preoccupation you have with L4 missions being the "obvious" baseline for income belies your motivations.

Adjustments to the economy should be focussed on ways of moving ISK between pilots, not just injecting more ISK into the game or sinking more ISK out of it. I agree with the two of you that a measure of "ISK income per hour invested" would be nice to have. The hard part will be defining what goes into that measure. I feel that the measure should include all sources of personal ISK income, regardless of whether those means are game-economy faucets.

One way of improving the ISK-shuffling ability of nullsec residents is to make mining more viable in nullsec, make manufacturing more viable in nullsec, and gradually impose dampers on NPC-assisted activities of all forms. Nullsec should stand on its own feet, rather than getting higher than hisec or lowsec by simply cutting the legs out from under everyone else.

Oh boy, gonna have to double post to reply to this one.

Datacores can be picked up once a year and sent to Jita in couriers. For the purposes of training our newbies/wiki I had timed this all once. The 6 waypoint route autopilot in a shuttle took 90 minutes (mostly afk and pre autopilot to station) so I sat in space at waypoint a lot until I tabbed over. The couriers took me 3 minutes.

So lets call that 2 hours of work a year, to farm billions. It was, (and is) the most passive wealth generation in EVE to this day. PI can get somewhat close, but not that good due to how often you touch it. So if you don't consider that passive, then nothing in EVE would ever fit your definition of passive. Botting takes more time investment than that.

As far as moongoo, you seem to keep trying to make this some sorta null vs highsec argument. When in reality I am far more of a "highseccer" than probably anyone posting in these threads. My Jita alt is the only char logged in 99% of the time. I primarily only exist in highsec as that is where the ISK is. Moon depletion is ******** and has been brought up time and time again and only makes EVE and even more soul sucking grind than null already is. Yay, lets scan moons monthly cause that is totally fun guys.

Ignore the fact it took years to get full scans of about all regions, even with generous bounties.

But totally guys! Goons want tech nerfed cause we are SOOO tired of being rich. Such a burden it is.

Just wow.