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Why does nullsec care so much about what highsec is doing?

First post
Author
Shylari Avada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2012-12-11 17:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Shylari Avada
I don't dislike people based on where they choose to play EVE or even enjoy their time spent in EVE.

I do however take grievous offense to those that point the 'elitist' finger at people who are trying to find out what they enjoy in EVE and can't because 'they are not good enough', 'don't have enough skill points', 'have bad K:D ratio:, etc.. Enjoy the game you play, enjoy the time you spend playing a game you enjoy.

However, just because you enjoy running missions, mining, exploration, worm holes, market manipulation, space trucking, hauling, reacting, hole patrolling, gate camping, station camping, or what have you- it doesn't diminish mine or someone else's joy in blowing up your internet space pixels, ganking your freighter, tearing down your POS, under-cutting your market-f***ery at a loss just to get under your skin, placing ridiculous bounties, engaging in year long holy wars over bad posting, and generally being the bane of someone else's existence (in game).

Just as you have your fun, others have theirs; neither party can rightfully criticize the other... You know, unless of course you don't have a SA account and/or are a bad poster; then your mere existence is intolerable Lol
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-12-11 17:34:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
And Yes, we will continue to point out to CCP and all that the risk/reward balances of the game are off, and that being able to sit in the most protected space and (as an individual shotin red Xs) still make as much isk as you could in the most dangerous space is wrong.



You Mad Bro?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2012-12-11 17:36:19 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Insults from the null side, as far as I'm concerned, tend to come about from trying to make a point and encountering the situation Jenn points out here, and extreme stupidity and ignorance. .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_attribution_error

please, tell us more about the randian supermen in null

Congrats guy,

If it wasn't clear enough, I was talking about a single person, MYSELF.
You're lovely little wikipedia link isn't quite applicable.

However you did reinforce my point about switching to the smart ass me as a means of moving beyond the wall of ignorance when I encouter it.



Imports Plus
Doomheim
#124 - 2012-12-11 17:36:58 UTC
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:
(TL;DR) In short: please explain to me how the actions of those in highsec negatively affects nullsec players, since the two are largely separate worlds, with the exception of markets and allocation of dev time? If the actions of highsec players don't in fact affect nullsec, then please explain why many nullsec players feels such strong emotions towards highsec players?


Probably because I have to buy all my goods there. See my name Sad
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#125 - 2012-12-11 17:37:32 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
And Yes, we will continue to point out to CCP and all that the risk/reward balances of the game are off, and that being able to sit in the most protected space and (as an individual shotin red Xs) still make as much isk as you could in the most dangerous space is wrong.



You Mad Bro?


Absolutely PISSED!
Shylari Avada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2012-12-11 17:38:51 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
You Mad Bro?


Unfunny meme, is rather unfunny.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2012-12-11 17:41:17 UTC
I personally prefer reward vs effort.

Risk is inherent in EVE, effort is not.

If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.

Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#128 - 2012-12-11 17:45:15 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
And Yes, we will continue to point out to CCP and all that the risk/reward balances of the game are off, and that being able to sit in the most protected space and (as an individual shotin red Xs) still make as much isk as you could in the most dangerous space is wrong.



You Mad Bro?


not mad enough to unsub
CCP is aptly named
Santiago Fahahrri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-12-11 17:47:42 UTC
I'd be careful associating the loudest forum voices for a representation of true public opinion.

I reside in null sec primarily and w-space intermittently and I have little to no interest or care what happens in Empire space. The place gives me the creeps, so I try to stay out of it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#130 - 2012-12-11 17:50:13 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
I personally prefer reward vs effort.

Risk is inherent in EVE, effort is not.

If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.



That's a big big problem.

In null with my Machariel I have to watch local and intel channels like a hawk, and intel channels don't help you when a wormhole pops up in your system lol. This in addition to managing the dps coming from the rats, shooting the right ships so as to not get a new spawn too quickly and all that. I have either haul in ammo or manufacture it myself.

In high sec doing incursions with the same mach I don't even have to have local up (i can't even be in the incursion fleet if I'm war-decced, so no need to watch local), I don't even really have to pay that much attention, just turn my alerts up so I know when I start taking damage so I can broadcast and shoot whatever the FC has tagged. All the effort is on the FC and logi pilots, not me. and I i need ammo it's usually already seeded in system by merchants who follow the incursions or a trade hub is close by.

And both activities for almost the exact same isk too only difference is the incursion give me LP too. Only downside to incursions right now is all the people doing them because their missions are less soloable now lol, so sometimes there is a wait.

Even though i love high sec incursions and benefit from it, I have to admit that's imbalanced as all hell.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-12-11 17:53:35 UTC
Null sec is jealous because high sec is where the majority of EVEs population lives. Its simple goto any small farm town and talk to the citizens there. Some will say they never want to leave this small town but a larger pct will tell you they cant wait to get out of this one horse town and actually mingle with a more diverse population after all that is where the income is at in the big city.

What it comes down to is Null sec has become a ghost town. Have you been to null sec lately I run mods out there on a conastant basis inorder to generate income but lately my margins are not what they use to be so I have had to lower my prices and risk running stuff without a scout.


If they truely want to fix null sec they need to insert some low and high sec systems into it. The same goes for high sec replace some of the high sec systems with null systems and mix the playing field up alittle and then and just then will eden thrive.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Borascus
#132 - 2012-12-11 17:54:04 UTC
a. Lick the window
b. Tap the fish tank
c. Look for recruits
d. Escape briefly for fresh air.

3 of them are negative.....
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#133 - 2012-12-11 18:01:00 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:


Also low end materials, its hard(ish) to get them in null sec so they're normally shipped in from hi-sec
Which is a bold faced lie. There are all the minerals you could ever need in null sec. You people out there are just too risk adverse to mine them. Then you come to highsec and blow up all the miners, therefore raising the the costs of doing business in highsec and then ***** about how it is more profitable to mine in highsec BECAUSE YOU MADE IT THAT WAY. People that live in null sec are just little children that want their cake and to eat it too.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac

Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#134 - 2012-12-11 18:07:53 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.


Because it takes so much effort to bounce from belt to belt killing rats for 15-20 mil a tick. I bet you can make so much more in highsec doing the same thing too right.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-12-11 18:09:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


That's a big big problem.

In null with my Machariel I have to watch local and intel channels like a hawk, and intel channels don't help you when a wormhole pops up in your system lol. This in addition to managing the dps coming from the rats, shooting the right ships so as to not get a new spawn too quickly and all that. I have either haul in ammo or manufacture it myself.

In high sec doing incursions with the same mach I don't even have to have local up (i can't even be in the incursion fleet if I'm war-decced, so no need to watch local), I don't even really have to pay that much attention, just turn my alerts up so I know when I start taking damage so I can broadcast and shoot whatever the FC has tagged. All the effort is on the FC and logi pilots, not me. and I i need ammo it's usually already seeded in system by merchants who follow the incursions or a trade hub is close by.

And both activities for almost the exact same isk too only difference is the incursion give me LP too. Only downside to incursions right now is all the people doing them because their missions are less soloable now lol, so sometimes there is a wait.

Even though i love high sec incursions and benefit from it, I have to admit that's imbalanced as all hell.

To me, that sounds like a whole lot of effort for no added gain.

And to me that says more than there being added "risk". The risk part is rather intangible, and not easily quantifiable. Mining in a fleet in null is safer than mining solo in high sec, or should be, but there sure is a lot more effort involved in mining in null than there is in high sec were you can do it AFK for weeks on end and not even be worried about your ship getting blown up.

Effort is very easy to quantify, and we all know that high sec takes considerably less of it.

Yup, it's imbalanced as all hell. People in high sec make considerably more ISK than the effort put forth warrants.

Which begs the question, why the **** wouldn't we care about it when we live in null.
it's like paying someone disproportionatly more money to run a cash register than to be a fligh controller, or a brain surgeon. That's just stupid.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-12-11 18:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Schalac wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:


Also low end materials, its hard(ish) to get them in null sec so they're normally shipped in from hi-sec
Which is a bold faced lie. There are all the minerals you could ever need in null sec. You people out there are just too risk adverse to mine them. Then you come to highsec and blow up all the miners, therefore raising the the costs of doing business in highsec and then ***** about how it is more profitable to mine in highsec BECAUSE YOU MADE IT THAT WAY. People that live in null sec are just little children that want their cake and to eat it too.

Which is a bold faced lie, because it's simply easier to import the low ends and focus mining on the high ends when you don't have the manpower to do both.

Dont' call someone else a liar when you can't tell the truth yourself. That just makes you a liar and a hypocrit.

And you obviously don't, and never have, lived in null and had to actually deal with playing there.
You're wrong.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#137 - 2012-12-11 18:11:24 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


If you live in high sec you have to put forth very little effort to make more isk than someone living in null.


Because it takes so much effort to bounce from belt to belt killing rats for 15-20 mil a tick. I bet you can make so much more in highsec doing the same thing too right.



I LOVE replies like this, because you can tell the person posting hasn't been to null since at least 2008.
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-12-11 18:13:15 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:

This is a prime example of a player who is butt hurt because the game is not getting played the way they want. Players like this want to be able to take their billion skill point pilot and come to hi-sec and impose their will on you and your 10 million skill point pilot and they want you to not be able to do nothing but cry about it. They resent the fact that they can’t do this in hi-sec free of penalty.

They have ruined their own space null/low with their own crappy tactics of gate camping and blobbing and fear of engaging in pvp because of the hot/cold drop of the incoming fleet. They can no longer impose their will on other players in low/null so now they have sought the last bastion of refuge in Eve….Hi-sec.

The safer Hi-sec becomes the less ability they have to impose their dominance of hi-sec players so they continue to loath and demonize what they refer to as carebares. The more control you have the less they have over you.

So they come to the forums and fight their fight not caring if they ruin the game for others because they have already ran the full course of the game. They are on their last chance to impose their schoolyard bully tactics on the only one they can, the only ones that don’t have the ability to fight back or have the skill points or ships to fight back….the carebare the scourge of Eve the ruination of the game the ones that must be destroyed.

This is them, this is their Eve


So much fail. Why people need to hide behind such easily disporvable BS is amazing to me still.

Ther eis nothing wrong with null, I play there (and in high) every night. But people like you need to believe that the only reason we screw around with high sec is because "we ruin our null sec".

it's not true, people screw with high sec because you cry so much, and the people griefing you like tears. End of story.

No one is trying to control what you do, this is just paranoia. most people don't care what you do, but you cling to that idea because it gives you some kind of sense of self importance. It's simply not true.

The mangle the firelfy quote, we ar enot the bad guys, you are not the plucky Hi-Sec hero fighting for freedom against bullies, and nothing is what it seems.

And that is not incense....*EXPLOSION*


I live in null as well, in the sea of blue. There is nothing to disprove. It is what it is. People that grief in hi-sec dont do it for profit, they try to make it less of a cost when they can. Some gank freighters that can yield profit. The truth is most null players that have been in null for a while have more money than they can spend. Some people are still in null trying to make a living not everyone is rich but to many have hundreds of trillions of isk. For these people it’s not about profit it about CONTROL. Control of the market or control of other players that’s what they seek and that’s why they come here and argue and fight and complain. Every time they make hi-sec safer they lose the ability to CONTROL.

They pretend to call it pvp or sandbox or various other things. In reality it’s the ability to impose control over the carebare they don’t want to lose. Just like the poster above and other like him/her.
Bump Truck
Doomheim
#139 - 2012-12-11 18:41:41 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Am I the only one that sees null sec guys trying to give rational and thoughfull answers, only to met with mostly insult?




Agreed. Looks that way to me.

I think all of OP's questions were answered 10x over.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#140 - 2012-12-11 18:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote:


I live in null as well, in the sea of blue. There is nothing to disprove. It is what it is. People that grief in hi-sec dont do it for profit, they try to make it less of a cost when they can. Some gank freighters that can yield profit. The truth is most null players that have been in null for a while have more money than they can spend. Some people are still in null trying to make a living not everyone is rich but to many have hundreds of trillions of isk. For these people it’s not about profit it about CONTROL. Control of the market or control of other players that’s what they seek and that’s why they come here and argue and fight and complain. Every time they make hi-sec safer they lose the ability to CONTROL.

They pretend to call it pvp or sandbox or various other things. In reality it’s the ability to impose control over the carebare they don’t want to lose. Just like the poster above and other like him/her.

Know what the biggest piece of bullshit here is?

You continually implying that hi sec gankers are Null sec players. As if getting ganked in high sec means you didn't get ganked by someone else who lives in high sec, or that they didn't come from low, or WH space.

PS: notice the guy used the word "greif" to say gank?
Says a lot about the guys mentality.

There's only one way to grief in EVE, shoot a rookie.