EVE General Discussion

I like the moon mining raid idea from the OP edit. If done properly it'll give small gang pvp a place in sov warfare.

For all the 0.0 haters out in this thread, just keep in mind some people did choose to live in null for fleet fights, blobs, ctas, whatever else you dislike. Gate camps are fun and exciting and are essential to make null what it is (remember, JB nerf was meant to exploit this weakness while traveling). If you don't like the complete lack of safety, stay in low sec, there are gate guns to 'protect' you there.

Anyway for general ideas on how to bring people to null sec despite its lawlessness:

- null pilots are used to get podded and that affects training time (while +4/+5 are the norm in High, most people living in null either won't use learning implants, or at max will use +3). Get away with that, Outposts should give you a +5 learning bonus while docked.
- Skills books: they should 'spawn' on Outposts or simply be a service on the station.
- Mining: should be WAY more profitable than high sec for all minerals, including lower end ones. That include ice mining. Doesn't make sense that most isotopes will come from high sec while the majority of its use takes place in low/null.
- Industry: give bonus to producing ships/modules in null. Either highly reduced material needs, or faster build times, preferably both.
- Small gang pvp: jesus, there are plenty of opportunities. Dozens of corps devoted for that purpose. Just keep in mind, in a game where losses are permanent, the bigger the pack, the bigger the odds that you will come back home in your ship. If you really like 'fair fights', join RvB or one of the countless pirate/anti-pirate lowsec corps.
- spawning 150km of gates: jesus effing christ, what is this blasphemy?
- kids in null sec? Seriously, you don't have a clue if you think null sec is filled with 17 years old. If anything is the exact opposite.

Really, 0.0 for some of us is the 'end-game' of EVE, epic fleet fights (albeit lag and other issues), CTAs and everything else that comes with sov. If you don't like it, again, there are still 3 options: high, low and npc nul. But please, don't advocate screwing with that aspect of the game because you don't have what it takes to enjoy it.

Best idea/concept I have heard in a long time. Support this 100%/.

I'd like to see npc stations in all regions not just a few, it's currently extremely difficult for solo or small group players to survive in nulsec.

Two things:

Null sec

Gate creation
Gate destruction
Covert gates.
No Local

Would that break up the big alliances? Have a distance limitation on a new gate but make them able to re-shape space routes, cut off their space or have their space, divided and conquered?
No Local and covert POS, etc in quiet systems could be sneaked in.

Worm Holes

People live in them permanently. They aren't going to move to null sec. Why can't they build outposts? They can't effectively control a region, just a system here and there.

You best be using shorter posts, we're not but humble PvPers

Is a tl;dr explanation at the bottom too much to ask?

All I've seen so far is input from pubbies who have never lived in null or have some idea that null is a magical fairly land where everyone is blue and isk flows everywhere and no one ever worries about anything, instead of being the a hell hole where you're constantly watching your back for gangs of 50 jackasses who want to blow up your ratting ship you spent 600 mil on because you're trying to bump your isk making from 30 mil an hour to 45 and you've been doing damn sanctums for 6 hours because you need to make a bil before the next strat op/hd fleet/roam because you lose 5-10 ships a week moving crap around, trying to get to staging systems, whatever. Yeah null is a happy place. You go to null for fleet fights. You know big ones, 500 vs 500. That costs isk. But in between those you get to deal with trying to drive 30-50 man gangs out of your space, clearing gate camps, trying to drive of jackasses that spend WEEKS cloaked in systems picking people off. Null sec is not for the faint of heart, its for those with more stubborness than sense.

Want to know why there's no mining in null anymore?

A: You can't actually mine enough to do a goddamn thing, industrialists will look at what you mine in a week, laugh and import 200x that from high sec.

B: You WILL die, over and over and over and over and over. No one wants to go through 2-3 hulks (600 mil just for the hulls) while only making 10 mil an hour.

C: The second anyone sees that the industry index in a system is 1 or higher you'll have 2-3 jackasses in bombers or cloaky t3s camping the system. They will never leave. And you can't risk mining with them in system because they'll just drop a 30 man blops gang on you and its over. And forget trying to get 30-40 people to sit in a belt with you for 4-6 hours doing nothing. You'll probably get caps dropped on you anyway.

There's a reason TEST tells its members "The dumbest thing you can do is mine". There's no profit (removing drone goo wont fix that), you can't mine enough to actually do a damn thing with it, and the ships are made of paper and cost more than most ratting ships.

Are you going to:
A. Mine for 10 mil an hour per hulk
B. Rat at 45 mil an hour (Sanctums with a tengu)
C. Do incursions and make 70-100 mil an hour + LP

You do C. And then you just compress and import a bunch of minerals. And I don't want to hear a word about nerfing compression or JFs, all you'll do is destroy the ability of anyone to make ANYTHING. You people don't realize the sheer volume of crap it takes to replace the ships from one fleet fight, let alone to build a regular cap, super, or titan. You'd need 50 people mining 6 hours a day for YEARS, not weeks, not months, YEARS to build any of that crap solely mining in nullsec. So forget it.

You want to make people mine in null? Give us a new tier of ore. That only spawns in gravs and gives 3 times the current amount of ore thats dropped. And give us some goddamn veldspar. Then give us some way to counter cloaky bastards who sit in system 23/7 for weeks at a time. Then make mining barges into ships that won't explode just because someone looked at it funny.

Try and read the OP, you will see many complains there not related to nullsec being machomenland for realmachomen. Actually the trending complains ares how it's boring, impersonal and unrewarding.

This suggestion bring some serious problems with them imho. You should understand that null players are there for the fights and those happen around the gates. So people participating in the camp obviously hope to get the kills and on the other hand there are quite a few roams that get together to break camps and kill the campers. Also there is a slight issue that if you jump a 100 man fleet into system and they are spread out over an area of 300km :)

With some patch CCP introduced region gates which do exactly what you propose. They have a way bigger spawn area and as a result cannot be camp. As a result there already are a lot less camp then there where before. So this change would destroy a lot of gameplay.

Moving around in null is not that difficult, although there is of course some risk involved. That is what makes it fun.
* use appropriate ships (covops, bombers, cloaky haulers)
* use scouts
* fly with a group of people
* be ready to get killed :)

Get into a null corp / alliance or move with your corp to one of the NPC null areas and be ready for some PVP



Does not help by its own. Right now there are alliances of alliances even tho there is no structure above alliance directly supported by the game.

Repiopulating nullsec isn't the resposibillity of CCP alone , the large alliances have alot to blame aswell
Maunly their pvp only mentallity has alot to blame
On the other hand i can not really blame them since they have no reason to expand their industrial base beyond the current model
Extrating moon goo ,mining abc ores and selling what they don't need in exchange for all the low end minerals and ice in high sec and still make a huge profit
I can't blame them because with a good logistical system it works fine

You can add thousand and one new goodies to null sec and nerf high sec to death you will not repopulate nullsec, worse ,in worse case scenario the game will just bleed to death within a year

There been many suggestions over the last 6 months of how and why
Some of them i like are these

small buf to manufacturing , reserach slots , making them equal to high sec slots , small buff to reprocessing plants , linking the military upgrades with the industrial upgrade( you need a minimum of industrial upgrade t of 3 to have a military upgrade of 5 and vice versa by example
a contract system where you can actually rent or lease systems without the renters getting extorted out of huge sums of money
and maybe a reward system where combat pilots get rewarded for babysitting over miners ( probably to hard to implement )
those just a few examples of ideas people been putting forward


my conclussion you need the large alliances a reason of why they should expand their industrial base and even become selfsufficient, not nerfing high sec to death and hating the little people ( little people i mean the thousands of small and medium size corporation who are making a living in high sec and enjoying the game their way)

by the way people do not hate nullsec they hate the current politics and drama

edit as a previous poster mentioned the added problem of AFK cloakers, indeed a counter to them will help aswell but i can already see the whine threads against a possible counter mechanism , a bit hypocrite if you ask me , hating afk cloakers when it happens in your system but 100% against any counter because it means they can't use it against their enemies anymore