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Extremely discouraged from EVE, please lend a hand?

First post First post
Author
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-12-11 04:15:23 UTC
Lady Hestia wrote:
raskonalkov wrote:


I meant lvl 5 skills in the drone category and guns category. Like drone interfacing 5 and then the racial skills to 4 at least.

Then large hybrid turret to 5 as well as rapid firing 5.

But at least get those to lvl 4 and perhaps get faction guns if you can before really trying to hurt lvl 4s.


Oh I see, hahah.

The way I say it is that my skills are not perfect, but they are not really sub par either.

Also, what's this about not being legit? Why would someone lie about sucking and being annoyed? Lol, I am quite confused.


its the forums, you are assumed to be stupid by all posters here until proven otherwise. after all, you posted here... TwistedTwisted

In any case for solo level 4 one should be able to reasonably fit all modules on their ship Tech 2 before attempting. If you do not have tech 2 guns, it'll be a slow and painful grind. Also I heard somewhere that a good level for solo level 4 is a combination of 1000 DPS or damage absorbed per second combined.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-12-11 04:20:10 UTC
I think the problem you have right now is you are still under the "new bro" classification and trying to reach too far too fast, all the while not being hooked up with any of the outfits that specialize in 'new bro's'.

There are a ton of ways that you can improve the things you do, you just have to figure out where to look. My best suggestion would be TEST or one of its friends, they seem to be the best place for starting out and wanting to understand the huge game you're trying to play (I would say EVE Uni but all they're really good for is learning about blackbirds).

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Lady Hestia
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#23 - 2012-12-11 04:46:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
I think the problem you have right now is you are still under the "new bro" classification and trying to reach too far too fast, all the while not being hooked up with any of the outfits that specialize in 'new bro's'.

There are a ton of ways that you can improve the things you do, you just have to figure out where to look. My best suggestion would be TEST or one of its friends, they seem to be the best place for starting out and wanting to understand the huge game you're trying to play (I would say EVE Uni but all they're really good for is learning about blackbirds).


What I am wondering is if I have a BS and sub-par skills for L4's , then what should I be doing with what I have?

Also, I laugh out loud at the idea that I am lying for sake of politics. Consult the amount of posts I have.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#24 - 2012-12-11 05:48:12 UTC
Lady Hestia wrote:

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L

Longer range ammo does not benefit falloff range; it only benefits optimal range, multiplicatively. Since you don't have much of it to start with (that's how autocannons work), longer range basic ammo is pretty much useless, because all it does is reduce your damage.

In other words, if you have 1 km optimal but 10 km falloff, getting +50% optimal puts you at 1.5 km optimal and still 10 km falloff -- while also reducing your damage drastically.

Stick to EMP, Phased Plasma, or Fusion. Train T2 guns so you can use Barrage (which bonuses falloff) if you want longer range.

Lady Hestia wrote:
Hammerhead I x5

Yeah... Those should be Hammerhead IIs. The gulf in performance between T1 and T2 drones is quite huge.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Lady Hestia
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#25 - 2012-12-11 06:15:06 UTC
Lol the accusations are funny to me. I'm really surprised to hear them, but I guess it makes sense. This is the first character I ever made, but for a long time I did not play with her. I played on other characters and even other accounts. I don't claim that I am a veteran since 2007, I only claim that I've been interested in EVE since then. Other characters on the account have a fair share of training in themselves, and I only come back to this character because of her prime mining skills.

Trust me, I am no "3 year vet", If I had some class-act I would not be here asking for help.

Thanks, though to those who have helped, I do feel a lot better.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#26 - 2012-12-11 06:49:36 UTC
It would also help to know what mission you were running that you were having problems with. If it's something like Smash The Supplier, of course you're going to have trouble. I have over 100m sp and still have trouble with that one because there is a crapload of damage coming in that just about any ship would have problems with.

Otherwise, I think you might just be having problems with the tactics involved in running lvl4's. It's changed somewhat with the new AI as some rooms that wouldn't all agro at once now do. With autocannon ships, it mainly comes down to fighting at about 50% falloff (so if falloff is 50km, fight at about 25km or less), keeping your transversal up, and killing the enemies you're weak to first. Don't just go "CHARGE!" and run right into the middle of them unless you're sure you can handle the incoming damage.

Some IMHO advice about your Maelstrom fit:

1. Get T2 guns asap.
2. Get T2 tanking mods asap. I actually did this first when I started out. Also get your capacitor skills maxed out if they aren't already.
3. Drop the cap booster and add a third hardener. You already have 3 CCC rigs so that should extend your cap time a fair amount. Or, if you want to keep it, drop the CCC rigs and add rigs to up your DPS/falloff/tracking so you can kill faster.
4. Make sure you're tailoring your hardeners to the rats your fighting. Just keep in mind that some rats can do damage that doesn't always go with the theme and that can HURT if you're not prepared for it. (Some Angel rats do EM damage, some Amarr rats fire Kinetic missile etc...know thy enemy...possibly outdated but helpful link)
5. This one is subjective but you could drop one of the gyros and add a Damage Control to up your resists a little bit more. If you're already light on damage you may want to ignore this one.

I tend to prefer very mobile autocannon ships with a falloff bonus. IIRC the newly rebalanced Stabber now has a falloff bonus, so that might be a good choice for your lvl2's.
ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-12-11 07:03:54 UTC
Quote:


At 16Mil SP I don't feel like my difficulty is justified. I use PYFA, EVEMON, even Battleclinic to find fits, and yet somehow my game is so difficult.

What advice can you guys lend to me? Naturally, I am happy to answer any questions you guys might have.


first, stop focusing solely on Skiloints as being the measure of what you can and cant do in this game -whats much more important is your OWN understanding of what you can and cant do. Skill points only limit what ships you can fly and what modules you can use. Understanding what ships and modules you need to complete a mission, go mining, gank a freighter or tackle a supercarrier is they key point here. I know that the difference may not be immediately apparent but Im suggesting the emphasis needs to be on you learning the game, not solely on accumulating skillpoints.

Your friend is right, you wont want to mine in null with a hulk. The problem you have is that youve put skillpoints into hulk and mining modules, which means you have way less than 16m SP in ships and modules that are usefull for non mining activities. That, combined with the fact that you come and go in the game means you dont have the experience of a 3 year player.

seriously, I'd take Grath Telkins advice and look at joining a noob friendly corp like TEST ( actually Goonswarm is very noob friendly, but will scam everything you own unless you are a member of Something Awfull, so unless you know what SA is, dont) However, also be aware that TEST also have a similar requirement and if they ask you for a "Security Deposit" or offer to move all your stuff to Null before you join the corp, youre being scammed and you should learn how to join corps in this allaince properly. If you have any sort of PvP experience and a security rating of somewhere negative, Sniggwaffe is alse a good pirate corp
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#28 - 2012-12-11 07:42:16 UTC
Perhaps pay a visit to http://eveboard.com/ and upload yourself for us

From there we can give you something more specific to work on.

Initially it appears your fit is fine but there is one problem, you don't give enough slots tot he resistances. The resistances are the key to being able to survive for prolonged amounts of time. The more damage that is resisted against the less you have to rep back in the first place and can thus be more sustainable.

Since you're using meta 4 guns range will likely be an issue too. What I recommend is working more on your cap skills so that you don't need to rely on the cap booster so much. Try taking off some gyros for a damage control or a cap flux coil. Take off the cap booster and fit a third hardener or even take off the shield boost amp for a 4th.

You'll likely be over tanked at this point but things should at least be doable now. Use this post from battleclinc and load those into your EFT to get an idea how well you tank: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php?topic=16740.msg141639;Re-EFT-Damage-profiles#msg141639

You'll want something like 600 DPS tank to start out with to make sure you stay alive and then you can progressively deal back on the tank and fit more gank as you are better trained. And like others mentioned in here it wouldn't be a bad idea to go back to L3s for a while.

For that I suggest a cyclone as it works very similar to a maelstrom (in terms of ship bonuses.

The Drake is a Lie

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#29 - 2012-12-11 08:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Myriad Blaze
Lady Hestia wrote:
Latest Maelstrom fit:

Hi Lady Hestia, although I'm neither an expert on Maelstroms or Minmatar setups, I noticed some issues you might want to take into consideration.

Low slots: I would switch a Gyro for a Damage Control II to get better resists and thus more EHP.

Mid slots: You should switch to t2 shield hardeners asap and I would recommend to use 3 of them. For example for Guristas you would fit 2 kin, 1 therm (always check your enemy before entering a mission and fit hardeners accordingly). Consider dropping your AB; you rarely need it in L4s (except for convenience).

High Slots: You fitted Autocannons which are used for close range (probably that's why you have the AB). When I run L4s I usually fight at ranges between 40 and 80km (except for Mercenaries and Frigates, of course). Maybe fitting Artillery Cannons is worth a try (maybe someone with more experience using a Mael in L4s could comment on this).

Rigs: Considering that projectile weapons don't really need much cap to operate I assume that you fitted the cap rigs to sustain your shield booster. I think I would try a mix of rigs that enhance tracking (to increase damage done by artillery vs. smaller targets) and perhaps shield extenders to give you more buffer and rely on the cap booster to sustain the shield booster.

Drones: Personally I use Hobgoblins to help me fight off frigates as I can hit anything else just fine. They have the advantage of being smaller, so you could bring replacements.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2012-12-11 08:35:53 UTC
Lady Hestia wrote:


What I am wondering is if I have a BS and sub-par skills for L4's , then what should I be doing with what I have?
.


Well to start with until you get a better grasp of ship fitting and things like that you might want to gear down to L3's. At the rate it sounds like you're running them you may pull more income from the L3's than you would from the L4's (5 lvl 3's an hour will make more than 1 L4).

Once you get that done I'd probably start by avoiding battleclinic fits, they tend to be relatively bad for multiple reasons that I wont go into here, what you need is a newbie friendly group.

If i push you towards one or another it'll look politically motivated so i wont do that, but know that there are tons, and that at NO TIME should you ever pay anybody to get into their group, all of the legit ones will take you for free and teach you what you need to know.

The last thing you'll need is patience. You're about to turn a corner around 21-24 million sp if you've been training right. At that point you'll be good with most ships of one race if you've been specific, or ok with a couple races. You just need to wait it out
a little longer.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-12-11 08:52:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Lady Hestia wrote:


Latest Maelstrom fit: (disregard the AB and specific hardeners, those change.)

[Maelstrom, Maelstrom Current]

Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field I
Kinetic Deflection Field I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
100MN Afterburner II

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Titanium Sabot L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead I x5


So I suppose you are fighting Guristas?
Guristas deal Kin and Therm damage, you should use both a kinetic and a thermal hardener. Use an additional invulnerability field (t2 if possible) and you will already have a pretty decent tank.

Let go of the AB. You do not have the skills yet to fit and run one without gimping your whole ship /capacitor.
Instead of the CCC rigs try some Projectile metastasis thingies that increase your falloff. Now you won't even really need your AB any more, since your guns will reach out to about 50 km.

And as stated by Mr. Blackshell, always use short range ammo with ACs (Fusion, EMP or Phased Plasma). Against Guristas, Phased Plasma would be best.

Instead of the Hammerheads, have some flights of light drones (Hobgoblins or Warriors).. you only need the drones to take care of fast tackling frigs, light drones are more efficient against frigs.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

valerydarcy
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-12-11 09:36:52 UTC
Please dont leave Eve.

Post with your main™

Lady Hestia
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#33 - 2012-12-11 10:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Hestia
I've taken all of this into consideration and learned a lot already. Thanks a lot for the advice and tips. I feel much better about my situation with the game. I've met lots of awesome people so far too, who have helped me a lot in-game. Thanks again!

I am a little confused at some of the odd comments here which are typed as if I claimed to be a hot shot 3 year veteran. Again, what sense would that make if I am here asking for help? I am not complaining about EVE, I am admitting my own misunderstanding. Strange you are! =P

If you want, you are welcome to give more advice, but just know that my fit has been updated:

[Maelstrom, Maelstrom Current]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-12-11 10:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Ditch all of the faction and deadspace stuff. All that's doing for you right now is increasing your potential loss. You shouldn't even be looking in that direction if you can't even finish a L4 yourself yet.

Get yourself some far better cap skills. 3 cap rigs + 2 flux coils + 2 cap rechargers screams "my cap skills are hot garbage". That's not just your core skills (Energy Management/Energy Systems Operation), that's shield (Shield Compensation) and propulsion (Afterburner and Fuel Conservation for AB, High Speed Maneuvering for MWD). The core skills should be V's and the latter skills at least IV. Don't focus on being cap stable, you usually have to sacrifice too much to achieve it. Worry about having enough cap to run everything for the amount of time it'll take you to clear a mission instead (whatever that may be).

If you know you want to stick with projectiles, get yourself up to T2 larges sooner rather than later. Also, how are your Gunnery support skills? If they've been neglected, rectify that ASAP. You need to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of those T1 guns as possible.

Normally I'd also say look at replacing the autocannons with 1400mm artillery, but that'd rely pretty heavily on drones to clean up the small stuff and I have no idea how viable that'll be with the new AI. Same goes for making sure your drone skills are up to snuff (Drone Interfacing would be Priority #1 there).

You also might want to seriously consider dropping down a notch and doing Level 3 missions in a Battlecruiser until your skills are up to snuff.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-12-11 10:31:27 UTC
I already see a lot of problems...
Lady Hestia wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been playing EVE on and off for a long time. Quite a few years. I started out mining, then continued to mine, had other accounts to do missions, etc, then I maxed out all of my mining, refining, etc.

Then, at some point I decided that two of my accounts would have battleships, and I'd run L4's with them. When I tried to do that, I found that neither ship could survive long enough in L4's to complete the mission before it expired. I spent some time training skills, a few months, and when I returned the results were not much different.
It takes quite a lot longer than "a few months" to be proficient with a battleship.
Lady Hestia wrote:
I even spent some time in Red vs Blue only to find the disorganized outfit to be a complete waste of time.
What were you expecting? RvB is all about newbies getting their feet wet in PvP. Of course it's going to be disorganized.
Lady Hestia wrote:
I stopped playing for a while, and now that I have come back, a friend who is not that bright is trying to get me to join a big corp he is in. We're going to null sec to do operations there, but so much has already ****ed me up already.
Bolded and underlined the parts that are relevant. Nullsec is garbage, plain and simple. I know those kids out there think they're super tough PvP'ers when they blob up and all, but it really sucks out there.
Lady Hestia wrote:
My friend insisted I sell my hulk because I wouldn't need it, as I was going to fight rats in null sec. I protested, but eventually caved and agreed. Then him and I tried to do L4's and I constantly had to leave just like I always did, and even after playing with my fits, it still seems impossible. Now, other people are telling me I should have not sold my hulk so I can mine stuff in null sec.
Pro tip: There will always be someone telling you what you should or should not have done. Always. Captain Hindsight has many sidekicks.

One of the first things you need to learn about this game is that nobody knows everything about this game, that includes the Devs. You're going to have to dust off your bullsh*t-o-meter and use it often.
Lady Hestia wrote:
I don't know what to do, really. When I started playing years ago I was always worried that you needed years worth of skills to do anything in this game, and people always reassured me. And yet, I am not so sure.

At 16Mil SP I don't feel like my difficulty is justified. I use PYFA, EVEMON, even Battleclinic to find fits, and yet somehow my game is so difficult.

What advice can you guys lend to me? Naturally, I am happy to answer any questions you guys might have.
You don't need years worth of skillpoints to do what you want in this game. You need to specialize. It sounds like you've been spreading your skillpoints across a wide variety of skills, essentially becoming a "Jack of all Trades, Master of None", except you're kinda terrible at all trades, so to speak.

Flying a battleship properly requires a LOT of specialized skill training. Flying a frigate properly requires only a few specialized skills trained. Judging by what you've told us so far, you're very far away from flying a battleship properly and you have no business being in one. Harsh, but someone should've told you by now.

The real question is what do YOU want to do? Not what everyone else recommends you do or don't do. You pay your monthly fee to play this game, so the decision is up to you. Do you really want to live in nullsec? Do you really want to give up mining? Do you really want to run L4 missions? What ingame goal(s) do you have?

I'll share mine with you. I decided early on that I want to be able to fly all ships of all races and use all weapons. That was four years ago. Now I can fly all T1/2/3 ships and their respective T2 weapons effectively. My industry skills are sorely lacking, but I reached my goal. My other goal was to give EVERYTHING in EvE an honest try. I'm almost done with that goal as I've tried just about everything except faction warfare and incursions.

Right now I'm tooling around with the new mining frigates, the Venture. I'm loving it as it's the perfect little ship to go mining in lowsec. Is it profitable to do so? A little, but it's the danger aspect which I enjoy. Mining Jaspet in the backyard of a large pirate alliance makes me chuckle a little.

The point being find something you enjoy doing. It doesn't have to be profitable or efficient, just enjoyable.


Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2012-12-11 10:40:10 UTC
I have removed some unhelpful and rude comments from this thread. Don't troll, people.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-12-11 10:49:19 UTC
may be handy if you link ur char sheet from eve board so people can look at ur skills and give yasome better hints to see what ya need to learn/skil higher
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#38 - 2012-12-11 10:50:00 UTC
I would recommend you spec to int/mem and start training those core skills.

Electronics, Electronic upgrades, mechanic, hull upgrades, shield skills, armour skills, capacitor skills, the works.

Without those, a battleship even with T2 guns is very very fragile.
I can solo level 4s in a drake ( battlecruiser ) easily. I've done this for ages, and even with only T1 heavy missiles on it.
( yes, this was before the heavy missile nerf, but even now, it works )
Reason I can is, I have maxed out shield/armour/capacitor skills. These make my sturdy drake even sturdier.. it just takes forever to clear a place out.

As for looking for fits.. try and do the math on them, and do your own math. Try working out why something fails, or why something could work. Think about why you want to use a certain module, or what it does, and how it affects other things.
Understand why some things are usefull and in what situations.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?

Amarra Mandalin
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2012-12-11 10:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have removed some unhelpful and rude comments from this thread. Don't troll, people.


I don't remember being rude or off topic. I can't say I'm fond of trying to help people only to see my post/time erased. I don't troll people asking for help and only occasionally joke around. It might have not been my most helpful but was sincere as far as I recall.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2012-12-11 10:51:36 UTC
Lady Hestia wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been playing EVE on and off for a long time. Quite a few years. I started out mining, then continued to mine, had other accounts to do missions, etc, then I maxed out all of my mining, refining, etc.

Then, at some point I decided that two of my accounts would have battleships, and I'd run L4's with them. When I tried to do that, I found that neither ship could survive long enough in L4's to complete the mission before it expired. I spent some time training skills, a few months, and when I returned the results were not much different.

I even spent some time in Red vs Blue only to find the disorganized outfit to be a complete waste of time.



I stopped playing for a while, and now that I have come back, a friend who is not that bright is trying to get me to join a big corp he is in. We're going to null sec to do operations there, but so much has already ****ed me up already.

My friend insisted I sell my hulk because I wouldn't need it, as I was going to fight rats in null sec. I protested, but eventually caved and agreed. Then him and I tried to do L4's and I constantly had to leave just like I always did, and even after playing with my fits, it still seems impossible. Now, other people are telling me I should have not sold my hulk so I can mine stuff in null sec.

I feel like a jack ass because everything I like to do has been so difficult. Now with the new PVE AI, I have such a hard time getting anything done.

I am now aware that the Algos (new Gallentean destroyer) is better at PVP than PVE, but when I bought one and fitted it and went into a L2 mission (working on standings with a specific corp), I nearly died on the first salvo of weapons.

I was so angry at my massive failure, while I was previously so excited about buying the Algos, a ship I really like.


I don't know what to do, really. When I started playing years ago I was always worried that you needed years worth of skills to do anything in this game, and people always reassured me. And yet, I am not so sure.

At 16Mil SP I don't feel like my difficulty is justified. I use PYFA, EVEMON, even Battleclinic to find fits, and yet somehow my game is so difficult.

What advice can you guys lend to me? Naturally, I am happy to answer any questions you guys might have.


Assuming you still have some ISK left, a Retriever will make a fine, cheap mining platform. The loss iof yield compared to a hulk is not that much now.

What ships can you fly with T2 weapons?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

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