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Not sure if this is the correct place for this question

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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-12-10 22:23:08 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
As for why I don't post here? It's mainly :angryinternetmen: and content-free ranting. See the OP for reference.


Your failure to understand the content of the OP does not mean it wasn't there. He didn't present it in the nicest way, of course, but people who are angry about things tend not to be terribly polite. It's also swell of you to let us know that things like "reading and answering questions" is beneath you.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#22 - 2012-12-10 22:55:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Sorry Snow Axe, I did not see mission running in there, and saying PvE because she ran for hi-sec mining is about as relevant as a null candidate who wants to fix ratting in Null or sleepers in a wormhole.


If you're seriously going to say that High Sec PvE doesn't cover mission running at all...wait, you're Frying Doom and I posted something that proved one of your "repeat until people accept it as true" lies wrong. Of course you're going to say they're different. Oh well, thankfully people who can read can see that Issler pretty clearly reps herself as someone who will represent mission running. You don't get to deny that just because she's bad at it.


My favourite one of those is how all the last 6 expansions have been focused on 0.0 and nefing hi-sec.

Frying Doom will be POTUS one day, you mark my words.

Well you got 2 things wrong out of 2 on that one.

I stated that Null has had resources spent on it in 5 out of the last 6 expansions, this statement was prior to the release of Retribution. Resources spent on is not the same as focused on...So First one Wrong.

Oh and the second one to be President of The United States, you must be a US citizen, that will never happen..So second one wrong.

2 out of 2 wrong, giving you a grand total of 0% almost sounds like the rest of the stuff you dribble.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#23 - 2012-12-10 23:03:27 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:


Frying Doom wrote:
How do you feel about the direction CCP is planning for the future of EvE?

I haven't yet seen anything posted publicly about the future of EVE I can comment on, barring the recent interviews with Jon Lander, which are fairly content-free for the typical EVE player, beyond "This is just the first step in making it so you don't need a degree in playing Eve Online to be able to play Eve Online", which I'm all for, as long as it doesn't actually change any of the established mechanics and add any kind of "easy mode" to EVE.

As for why I don't post here? It's mainly :angryinternetmen: and content-free ranting. See the OP for reference.

Bit of a cop out "I haven't yet seen anything posted publicly about the future of EVE I can comment on"

Claiming NDA when I did not even ask for specifics, I asked how do you feel about the direction CCP is taking EvE in the future.

As to :angryinternetmen: and content-free ranting, welcome to EvE online, it is hardly transparency if you refuse to interact with the populous. Also it does little to remove the CSMs biggest hurdle and that is the fact that it has the outward appearance of a Null Sec Lobby Group. It may not be one but it sure as hell looks like one, with almost everything publicly available is how Null is stagnant and how it needs to be a priority fix.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#24 - 2012-12-10 23:07:16 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:


Now...

The post you linked was "Posted: 2012.11.09 13:39", so over a month ago now, well before Retribution launch. Lots of things can change then.


Yep. posted a month ago.
And no, CCP did not change anything in that subsequent month.
And you have stated quite clearly you had no clue that there was a "defect" and loophole.
My point stands, you are not doing your job if something this important slides right by, since you clearly could not be bothered to check a 36 page thread in the features feedback thread about something this crucial to your supposed constituents.

Quote:

"While we consider the fact that the AI will only shoot your first flight of drones (this is based on specific criteria such as sig radius) and not a second wave to be a defect, we are not publishing the fix with Retribution."

So, its not supposed to happen like that. They will be fixing it at some point in the future. But not immediately, and based on CCPs record when it comes to fixes, it may be a while until this happens. (Unless you're posting from the future, in which case can you send me the minutes from the CSM Summit, which would save me typing them up next week. Also lottery numbers.)


Congrats, you can interpret what CCP has said, just like myself and countless others did, A MONTH AGO.
According to CCP's new vision of "all drone love, all the time" It is not supposed to happen like this, and CCP will be altering it so ALL drone flights will be subjected to the new AI when CCP gets around to removing the only loophole drone users have.

Quote:

Just how is this "CCP plans on closing the loophole in the AI that currently allows for the use of drones"? Unless you don't realise you can recall your drones any more? You can still use them, they will still do damage, and once they put the fix in which works as they want it to, rats will re-evaluate damage dealers, including drones, but not in a way that obliterates them instantly. That said, its good that you know exactly what CCP are planning to do and how it will affect things before they probably even started working on it.

Minus one Internetz for you....
I know you are not that obtuse.

Let me lay it out for you, even though I know you have already figured this out.
How it is today:

Mission runner releases drones.
1.Mission runner enters room, and gets auto-aggro from entire room.
2. Mission runner releases drones which get immediate auto-aggro of entire room, including all scramming, webbing, and DPS.
2. Drones die to a combination above. I have lost Hob II's on Duality and on TQ that were 4 km from my ship that could not get back in time. That is ONE SECOND TRAVEL TIME, if they are not scrammed and webbed.
2a.OR: Mission runner gets smart, releases 1 T1 sacrificial drone, or T2 sentries, and immediately brings them in as soon as NPC aggro has been established on the drones.
3. Drones now can be used as before, until a new spawn arrives.
4. Mission runner does OK.

How it will be when this loophole is closed:
1. Mission runner enters room, and gets all or some of the aggro, depending on CCP rollbacks.
2. Mission runner releases drones. Maybe they don't get insta aggro, and heavy drones get 10 km from mission runners ship. Then the AI decides to hit them, and they get scrammed and webbed. Drones die before mission runner can move to them, because the drones sure are not moving to him.
3. Mission runner releases a new flight of drones, and step 2 is repeated, as EVERY flight of drones will be attacked by the AI. It is not a matter of if, but when, even if the AI aggressiveness is dialed way back, which at least for high sec, I strongly doubt will happen.

Quote:

And I still have no idea where you get: "...the CSM is encouraging the removal of high sec as an income generation tool" from.


Perhaps I did not make myself clear there.
I don't expect high sec to be removed, at least not quite yet.
But high sec mission running as an ISK generation tool just got hammered, and will be even more crippled when the loophole is closed. Go back to Soundwave's Ten Ton Hammer interviews at last Fanfest. He stated he wanted to hammer high sec income by 10%. Well, this goes way way past 10%, but there will never be facts to prove it, since CCP has conveniently stopped providing 6 months ago.


Quote:

As for why I don't post here? It's mainly :angryinternetmen: and content-free ranting. See the OP for reference.


You know, that is what I would expect from one of the null sec propagandists.
You make it clear you don't know the game mechanics, and you don't care to know them, and when we get angry, it is somehow our fault.
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#25 - 2012-12-11 02:43:47 UTC
^
I think Kelduum just has more faith in CCP to fix the drone problem really.

I know where you are coming from, and wasn't so sure if CCP would do anything about it. Still not sure if they will or something, suppose they did say they would reduce the drone hate, but I never saw that just heard about it. So perhaps CCP will do something or are doing something, so there is no real reason to be so angry.

I suppose I am not too worried, once Kelduum has to start telling the noobs in uni the lame mechanics they have to perform for no real reason just to get through a mission, he will probably get more angry at CCP for a change.

But it is sad my Domi is retired for a bit. Even though I suppose this change would be easy for me with the Alt I have, no real danger anymore, if I warp my alt in and clear all the aggro or something, or use his dps to save myself. Of course just having an alt before make it pretty much dangerless unless I was tired. Perhaps CCP should remove alts to make missions harder, as well as marketing and PI harder as well.
Frying Doom
#26 - 2012-12-11 03:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
raskonalkov wrote:
^
I think Kelduum just has more faith in CCP to fix the drone problem really.

I know where you are coming from, and wasn't so sure if CCP would do anything about it. Still not sure if they will or something, suppose they did say they would reduce the drone hate, but I never saw that just heard about it. So perhaps CCP will do something or are doing something, so there is no real reason to be so angry.

I suppose I am not too worried, once Kelduum has to start telling the noobs in uni the lame mechanics they have to perform for no real reason just to get through a mission, he will probably get more angry at CCP for a change.

But it is sad my Domi is retired for a bit. Even though I suppose this change would be easy for me with the Alt I have, no real danger anymore, if I warp my alt in and clear all the aggro or something, or use his dps to save myself. Of course just having an alt before make it pretty much dangerless unless I was tired. Perhaps CCP should remove alts to make missions harder, as well as marketing and PI harder as well.

Ok quick one, if CCP removed the ability to multibox, they would go broke over night as a lot of people have multiple accounts and some people 20+

As to faith I am more scared by the fact Kelduum hid behind the NDA on a simple question like "How do you feel about the direction CCP is planning for the future of EvE?"

He could have said "yeah there future plans are great, sorry I cannot say more but I am locked by the NDA" or "There plans are so crap you will end up rioting in not just Jita but all of EvE, I wish I could say more but if I do they will boot me and come after me with lawyers"

So either the players would be happy or start demanding answers form CCP and compel them to answer something, as this would be in the ummm did you forget what happened 18 months ago section.

Instead we got "I haven't yet seen anything posted publicly about the future of EVE I can comment on"

Now that is bloody scary.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#27 - 2012-12-11 04:06:32 UTC
Well the alt banning was kind of a joke, or a bit of sarcasm to the plight of people trying to make EVE harder.

I suppose to defend Kelduum without knowing anything, I do know I play EVE for different reasons at different times. Perhaps the NDA topic is something that he is hooked to right now, and that is his main reason for playing. Like the people who resubbed for the bounty system introduced in retribution.

Also not everyone is fixated with monoclegate. So the future or direction of EVE can be puzzling. Like you posting in the null sec thread, that can be a future for EVE, or maybe DUST can be a direction for EVE, or perhaps Kelduum likes the trolls being banished a feature, and that is NDA'd. So the direction question can be ambiguous.

He hasn't quit yet, or become passively aggressive towards poetic yet, so perhaps CCP isn't doing anything too bad right now.
Frying Doom
#28 - 2012-12-11 04:31:02 UTC
raskonalkov wrote:
Well the alt banning was kind of a joke, or a bit of sarcasm to the plight of people trying to make EVE harder.

I suppose to defend Kelduum without knowing anything, I do know I play EVE for different reasons at different times. Perhaps the NDA topic is something that he is hooked to right now, and that is his main reason for playing. Like the people who resubbed for the bounty system introduced in retribution.

Also not everyone is fixated with monoclegate. So the future or direction of EVE can be puzzling. Like you posting in the null sec thread, that can be a future for EVE, or maybe DUST can be a direction for EVE, or perhaps Kelduum likes the trolls being banished a feature, and that is NDA'd. So the direction question can be ambiguous.

He hasn't quit yet, or become passively aggressive towards poetic yet, so perhaps CCP isn't doing anything too bad right now.

It is not a fixation with monoclegate per say it was more to do with the unbelievable arrogance that you need only listen to our money if we unsub, as it showed unsub people did. It is to do with the whole culture of **** poor customer service, yes eve is a great game and some of the Dev trolling is awesome but we have still got people dealing with CCP customers that quite frankly have no business doing so. They want new customers, great, they want to keep the ones they have, great. That will not happen with poor customer service skills occurring in the organization and with customers having no recourse against that poor service. People will just leave.

As to trolls, well yes I do..but at the same time the inability to answer a simple "how do you feel" question and getting an NDA response is kind of scary. Has the NDA gotten to the point that the CSM can say nothing without it being spoken of first, even in the most general way?

What will CSM 8's NDA be like

"Hello Kelduum, how are you?"

Replies "Sorry I am unable to speak due to the NDA, I will have to clear it with legal how I feel"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#29 - 2012-12-11 04:46:42 UTC
Well get ready for it. The NDA silence attack, happened in the last CSM paper thingy.

I didn't mean you were trolling. Its just a subject I like so I brought it up as a joke.

There was a guest on a morning business show, who said its easy to fall into rhythm with clients and people you work with. So I can see how cancelling accounts could come up again possibly. It is hard, but their are certain levels or layers to an MMO and could fall into rhythm or forget about some things here and there. One of the reasons they started CSM I suppose.

Sadly the NDA does seems to be a big challenge for this CSM, your not the first person to complain or comment on it.

As for customer service with CCP it is really bizarre, but also new to me. I also currently like new things, so I am not too angry about it.
Frying Doom
#30 - 2012-12-11 05:41:25 UTC
raskonalkov wrote:
Well get ready for it. The NDA silence attack, happened in the last CSM paper thingy.

I didn't mean you were trolling. Its just a subject I like so I brought it up as a joke.

There was a guest on a morning business show, who said its easy to fall into rhythm with clients and people you work with. So I can see how cancelling accounts could come up again possibly. It is hard, but their are certain levels or layers to an MMO and could fall into rhythm or forget about some things here and there. One of the reasons they started CSM I suppose.

Sadly the NDA does seems to be a big challenge for this CSM, your not the first person to complain or comment on it.

As for customer service with CCP it is really bizarre, but also new to me. I also currently like new things, so I am not too angry about it.

Actually I do troll at times. Trolling can be fun, and its not a serious thing.

Customer service is both a pet peeve and a source of income to me in RL (you would be amazed how much you can raise a businesses revenue by just fixing its customer service)

Yes the CSM is there to advocate on behalf of the players.

Or to quote "What is the CSM", "The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP."

Funny how that does not say part of the community or those of the community who vote.

But I digress, the main point of the CSM is to tell CCP what the community thinks but it is very hard for us to tell them what we think when the CSM is completely gagged by the NDA.

Kind of silly. I can understand not saying that they would release a specific feature at a specific time or some completely revolutionary idea.

But not able to tell us how they feel about where CCP is heading EvE smells more like hiding behind the NDA than the NDA itself.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#31 - 2012-12-11 06:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: raskonalkov
Frying Doom wrote:


But not able to tell us how they feel about where CCP is heading EvE smells more like hiding behind the NDA than the NDA itself.



Suppose he could be doing that. Never thought of the NDA being used as a crutch though. Perhaps there is no NDA at all, just something CSM says to help avoid hard issues.

Now that we are talking about it, some of those pics from Iceland looked a little wonky. I bet they don't even go there anymore (Most of the CSM say they have already been there or its too stressful to see it as fun or a vacation). I bet CCP sends them all to Jamaica or some nice place like that. So then CCP can say they talked to the players and know their issues. Then when CSM can't answer hard questions about stuff, they just say CCP NDAed that subject so they can't talk about it, but they really want to talk about it since they were trying really hard to make it work well for the players and stay atop of it for feedback.
Frying Doom
#32 - 2012-12-11 07:01:10 UTC
raskonalkov wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


But not able to tell us how they feel about where CCP is heading EvE smells more like hiding behind the NDA than the NDA itself.



Suppose he could be doing that. Never thought of the NDA being used as a crutch though. Perhaps there is no NDA at all, just something CSM says to help avoid hard issues.

Now that we are talking about it, some of those pics from Iceland looked a little wonky. I bet they don't even go there anymore (Most of the CSM say they have already been there or its too stressful to see it as fun or a vacation). I bet CCP sends them all to Jamaica or some nice place like that. So then CCP can say they talked to the players and know their issues. Then when CSM can't answer hard questions about stuff, they just say CCP NDAed that subject so they can't talk about it, but they really want to talk about it since they were trying really hard to make it work well for the players and stay atop of it for feedback.

Sorry I haven't started the ti foil hat campaign yet that starts in about 2 months.

But on that never heard of a parliamentarian hiding behind privilege or national security?
Hiding behind an NDA is the same thing.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#33 - 2012-12-11 07:11:54 UTC
Uh, not really too much, perhaps the justice system in a way, but wanted to see if it went anywhere or not, before bringing the knuckles down.

Besides this is EVE, I would probably think it was acceptable behavior seeing that. That is unless **** got real and Kelduum tried to take away my AFK ice mining or something. Then I would take it seriously.

I shall try to be more watchful of them hiding behind the NDA, but was feeling alright about it anyhow. Suppose after their next trip to Jamaica this week. Be a good time to question or guess the NDA subjects.

raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#34 - 2012-12-11 07:20:33 UTC
Quote:
Customer service is both a pet peeve and a source of income to me in RL (you would be amazed how much you can raise a businesses revenue by just fixing its customer service)


Yeah I can see how it can increase revenue if the customer service is good. I was wondering where ya live(don't say) but as in nice people around or so.

I mostly meet annoying people, it would be hard to take their money or deal with them and only expect money in return for it. But if I had nice people around me, I would be more of a proponent for it.

But I have no idea where CCP is at with it and things like that. To me, it seems only senior GMs do a lot or are most helpful. But can be hard for employees reach that level. Like a bottleneck occurs with having enough senior GMs to help with the petitions.
Frying Doom
#35 - 2012-12-11 07:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
raskonalkov wrote:
Quote:
Customer service is both a pet peeve and a source of income to me in RL (you would be amazed how much you can raise a businesses revenue by just fixing its customer service)


Yeah I can see how it can increase revenue if the customer service is good. I was wondering where ya live(don't say) but as in nice people around or so.

I mostly meet annoying people, it would be hard to take their money or deal with them and only expect money in return for it. But if I had nice people around me, I would be more of a proponent for it.

But I have no idea where CCP is at with it and things like that. To me, it seems only senior GMs do a lot or are most helpful. But can be hard for employees reach that level. Like a bottleneck occurs with having enough senior GMs to help with the petitions.

Actually I hate customers, they are rude annoying scum..

But I never let them know that, you just make them think that they are the center of the world and they come back time and again.

The customer is quite literally a businesses reason for being, most think its money, its not.

If you always put the customer first in everything the money is a side effect and when you think like that it becomes a huge side effect.

Normally it requires a lot of staff retraining but in the end reduces customer complaints massively and increases your business, staff become happier as they start to learn which customers to deal with them selves and which ones to have supervisors or managers to resolve customer problems.

Probably why I cant stand customers, I am normally where the buck stops but if you deal with problems speedily and with gut busting politeness and courtesy, they will tell there friends ect.. ect.. word of mouth is better advertising than any amount of money can bring.

As to CCP that is there business even though I gripe but it is kind of rule number 1 not to use copy and paste answers and to never, never threaten a customer, even if you are throwing them out of a building (door not window).

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#36 - 2012-12-14 17:05:37 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#37 - 2012-12-14 19:31:13 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Go try this out and post there: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2322732


Congrats, you managed to copy and paste a thread that many have already seen, if they are keeping up with this horrible change to the game.

It still does not mitigate the fact that you, a high sec rep, did not have a clue that there was a huge problem that was directly impacting your constituents, and that I had to start a thread to get you even to get a response from you, or any CSM member, in fact.

And the fact that Issler, the other supposedly high sec CSM rep, could not even be bothered to make ANY comments about this is incredibly telling.
Kelduum, I have to at least give you credit for responding.
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