Jita Park Speakers Corner

My only drama with the currently voting system is the ease of creating or reactivating an old account to vote.

Other than that yeah voting system is fine...Just need to get more people voting, thats it.

So it is not off topic as voting systems includes the methods by which we get more people to vote. So yeah I completely agree with you on that one. It is more the voting system that does not matter and the Voters who do.

The current voting system is just crap. The fact that it has resulted in somewhat representative results is ultimately a stroke of luck.

It's actually so bad that it's not listed in the wikipedia main article about voting systems. If you have somehow missed why it's bad check this article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_non-transferable_vote

The ideal solution would be proper STV. It is really not that hard to implement a ui where you select a number of candidates in order of preference and it's really not that hard to develop the software for counting the results. I mean CCP does employ software developers, right? If ideal solution exists that is what you should set as a goal.

Working with the limitations given in the other thread the Candidate-Designated model is something that might be ok short term solution. I'm a bit surprised that Goons didn't see through the obvious troll of not having the overvotes transfer. That is just plain silly considering that one of the stated goals was to remove the need for tactical voting. It is just as bad of a problem in the high end as it is in the low end.

That said, I see no reason to settle for the klunky short term solution when the ideal one is just as attainable.


Sidenote:
I don't know how Goons have managed to miss the fact that the current system wasted majority of Mittani's votes even without the incident. If they really were as organized as some people seem to belive they should have praised the proposed solution and in the same sentence point out the fact that overvotes not transferring does not fit that stated goal.

Voting systems are somewhat a passion of mine. I've for example spent considerable effort one year in National Union of University Students in Finland 's General Assembly trying to convince an idiot that STV is the best voting system there is and the old school thing he was proposing actually had higher election theshold than STV.

We didn't miss that fact at all, the "wasted" votes were a deliberate move to give Mittens a mandate to push for action on a number of "sucking chest wounds" by putting the weight of 10,000 votes behind him. We could just as easily have split our votes and put 2 or 3 candidates forward (and indeed, under something like the Trebor Plan we most likely would) but it was felt that one voice with a vote total which vastly outstripped the others would be more effective in actually getting things through. The Fanfest Alliance Panel events stopped us from properly testing that theory, however.

Oh it started that way. After being told twice that we were "invading" the thread with "tinfoil" by pointing out said problems by the 2nd page, it was pretty clear that they just wanted us to do exactly that - point it out once and go away so the criticism would stay buried. That didn't play, to say the least.

Besides, it wasn't just some unintended side effect - it was a stated design goal of his system, and his own custom modifications to an existing system accomplished them. It's not tinfoil to point out that his system was designed to devalue the votes of one specific group (whether it was us or not is immaterial, doing this to any group of players is unconscionable).




Even if those vote totals were kept for record (and no part of his proposal suggested this was the case), it's irrelevant as it created a system where the votes of others literally had more values than ours. That's completely unacceptable (and quite frankly insulting that he thought we'd be too stupid to notice or that the remaining CSM members thought we'd just drop the issue because they used the words "invade" or "tinfoil").

Just as a note, though, there were plenty of criticisms that also included support for unaltered STV as well. Personally though, I think this CSM has shown that they can't be trusted to represent this issue in a fair way at all, and it's really sad that CCP Xhagen hasn't acted on this, despite him having to come in and sort of rescue the dialogue at all by creating his own thread.

The thread is easily available for everyone to read and after just checking the first page I don't think objective facts support your view.

But as bad Goon PR strategy was I will be there to whine with you if changes that have as obvious flaws as the Trebor's plan had are proposed after the summit.

you might as well just leave the system as is. STV will not end bloc voting, the blocs will just run multiple candidates. The majority of the CSM voters are nullsec dwellers who are going to vote for their favorite nullsec candidate.

The majority of highseccers dont vote in the CSM election, for the most part dont even know what the CSM is, and they usually dont read the forums, so your efforts to reach out to them are mostly falling on deaf ears. If highseccers voted en masse you would see very few nullseccers on the CSM.

If you want people to take an active interest in the CSM they need to be doing more than just L4 missions in Motsu, as that crowd doesn't really care. FW is very alt heavy so the FW char is most likely voting for their mains choice of candidate.

You shouldn't take it too hard, when CSM dismisses you so easily for being too tinfoily. They just don't like tinfoil hats and trollery on a personal level.

On a fun level, seeing how much the goons hate certain people or perhaps some of the bigger blocks hate people. It would be fun to do a sacrificial move during an election. As in allow the large blocs with super majorities to win, but then sack your own people and vote in the people those blocks hate. As in lots of goons win, but Seleene or trebor don't win. But Xenuria does win and perhaps some afk ice miner wins.

Or course most likely the race will just stay bare knuckled where everyone trolls everyone, people get too hot headed and are forced out, others bicker and get trolled into burning out in flames. And goons will always be on the horizon during all of this as the ever majority. (Though Reddit has a bigger alliance now, surprised that hasn't made it into the tinfoil yet. But lots of people say TEST is a pet to goons, or TEST says they are still developing as a human being, so they aren't ready to spam CSM right now. But perhaps in a year or two, they will be ready to harvest their members and start spamming elections.)

Actually that is why I said supposed, people have bitched about it but it will be a cold day in hell before I run a mission to find out.


Yeah I think the current changes can be used to put the fear of god in the hi-sec peasants. Wait till they realize that you can use fast tackles on lo-sec gates now

CSM Doomed as Null Muscle even more seats to over to the Null Sec Lobby.

Ohhh that one might get them to bloody vote, especially if it goes with "Well did you like the last hi-sec nerfs? Well here come some more"

Stirring up the insane paranoid rhetoric for election season always makes it more fun (see the recent US Presidential elections).