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Highsec "Carebear" representation from the CSM?

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#141 - 2012-12-10 21:04:12 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Go have a read in Jita Speakers Corners.
Have a look at my thread.

Have a read about what a certain CSM member supposedly representing high sec states, then read what I posted back with.

That should answer any questions you might have about high sec representation.

How about link the thread.


You can't make 2 clicks and look for a thread with my name?

You better hurry though. I imagine it will disappear soon.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#142 - 2012-12-10 21:10:55 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Go have a read in Jita Speakers Corners.
Have a look at my thread.

Have a read about what a certain CSM member supposedly representing high sec states, then read what I posted back with.

That should answer any questions you might have about high sec representation.

How about link the thread.


You can't make 2 clicks and look for a thread with my name?

You better hurry though. I imagine it will disappear soon.

Nope.

If you're going to direct me, do it right. Otherwise you're just teasing me.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-12-10 21:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-12-10 21:23:22 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"

Your play habbits are not representative of everyones play habbits.

And if you think carebear miners aren't running around high sec with half a dozen accounts mining, then you're very out of touch.

Multiboxing several accounts is not something that only non carebears do, it's not even something non carebears do more.
Most people I know that are using several accounts, are not using them to pvp.

It's mission runners and miners that are most likely to be multiboxing, and guess what catagory those guys fall under?

It's not "most carebears are", It's "most multi account players are", and you would end that with carebears.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#145 - 2012-12-10 21:39:23 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"



But we're always hearing that 75 or 80 or 90% of players are in hi-sec. Surely 90 guys with 1 account outvote 2 guys with 5 accounts?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#146 - 2012-12-10 21:50:43 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"

The CSM could be so much more than it is.

For a long time it has been a Null sec club where the members actively slag off or ignore any hi-sec member or just talk over them at public events.

There are 400,000 accounts in this game with only about 19% voting. Null sec like to spew things out like the fact that hi-sec is 75% Null alts. Frankly that is a load of rubbish or they would get more than 1/5 of EvE voting as Null players normally do as they are told in a lot of the alliances.

But frankly in the last election it took 1/3 of 1% of the population's vote to get a seat on the CSM.

Thats crap.

If more people Voted the CSM would stop being a joke, stop being a Null sec lobby group with a couple of rouge members to get things don for the rest of EvE.

So to summarize the Summary....

Get off your butts and VOTE....Get your friends to VOTE....Bug strangers in local to VOTE....Hell tell the Jita bot spammers to VOTE (they may be not there but someone else might listen and Vote)

So to Summarize the Summary of the Summary.

VOTE

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#147 - 2012-12-10 21:55:19 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"


Tell this to the dude who was obviously running about 25+ accounts mining ice in Wuos. Wish I could remember the name but it was something like "sweatybear1" through "sweatybear25" all in Macs.
Mr Pragmatic
#148 - 2012-12-10 21:56:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"

The CSM could be so much more than it is.

For a long time it has been a Null sec club where the members actively slag off or ignore any hi-sec member or just talk over them at public events.

There are 400,000 accounts in this game with only about 19% voting. Null sec like to spew things out like the fact that hi-sec is 75% Null alts. Frankly that is a load of rubbish or they would get more than 1/5 of EvE voting as Null players normally do as they are told in a lot of the alliances.

But frankly in the last election it took 1/3 of 1% of the population's vote to get a seat on the CSM.

Thats crap.

If more people Voted the CSM would stop being a joke, stop being a Null sec lobby group with a couple of rouge members to get things don for the rest of EvE.

So to summarize the Summary....

Get off your butts and VOTE....Get your friends to VOTE....Bug strangers in local to VOTE....Hell tell the Jita bot spammers to VOTE (they may be not there but someone else might listen and Vote)

So to Summarize the Summary of the Summary.

VOTE



I agree 100% Vote for me, Verily say to you, I will not disappoint.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#149 - 2012-12-10 22:01:20 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
I'll quickly just say one thing about the topic.

I see a lot of folks saying "if carebears bothered to vote" and stuff? Well, the thing is, most carebears are single-account folks. They don't treat EVE as a second job. I've always had a single active EVE account. I've had different accounts over the years, but never more than one active at once.

As such, compare a carebear like that voting, to some junkie with 8 alt accounts. Who will get outvoted? Heck, if that's how voting in EVE works, why not let people buy votes? Low low price of 10 votes for $100! 110 votes for $1000! Buy now! Because that's what it is, plain and simple.

To me, CSM will never be anything more than a gimmick, something CCP can use to say "Look, no other game has that!"


Precisely.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#150 - 2012-12-10 22:06:53 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Go have a read in Jita Speakers Corners.
Have a look at my thread.

Have a read about what a certain CSM member supposedly representing high sec states, then read what I posted back with.

That should answer any questions you might have about high sec representation.

How about link the thread.


You can't make 2 clicks and look for a thread with my name?

You better hurry though. I imagine it will disappear soon.

Nope.

If you're going to direct me, do it right. Otherwise you're just teasing me.



OK, for those that want to see a CSM member who supposedly represents high sec display his ignorance of the new high sec AI mechanics and his utter contempt for high sec players, here you go:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180595&find=unread

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-12-10 22:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Go have a read in Jita Speakers Corners.
Have a look at my thread.

Have a read about what a certain CSM member supposedly representing high sec states, then read what I posted back with.

That should answer any questions you might have about high sec representation.

How about link the thread.


You can't make 2 clicks and look for a thread with my name?

You better hurry though. I imagine it will disappear soon.

Nope.

If you're going to direct me, do it right. Otherwise you're just teasing me.



OK, for those that want to see a CSM member who supposedly represents high sec display his ignorance of the new high sec AI mechanics and his utter contempt for high sec players, here you go:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180595&find=unread


I guess that's one way to look at it.

I think your wrong of course.
Reading through many of the post in that thread didnt leave me with the impression you have. I in fact came away reaffirmed that some of you guys simply refuse to accept anything but what you want.

A mechanic doesn't suit you, it doesn't mater who tells you what or what they say, you want it changed to suit you and anything less is obviously high sec hating null seccers.


YOU don't even understand why they chaged the AI, or that the drone UI is planned to be changed.

No, I do not want someone who advocates AFK gameplay in high sec, and that's pretty much what you and some others want; as is evident by your complaints about the AI changes in that thread.

I prefer people represent EVE, and have a wider view of the game. I don't want people who have no experience in high sec making suggestions to CCP as a CSM member anymore than I want someone with no null experience making suggestions as a CSM member to null mechanics.

High sec is not it's own little world. It doens't exist on a server that doesn't impact the rest of EVE. There is no dividing line were you can simply make changes in high sec for the sake of people who play only in high sec. High sec has impacts on other area of the game.
Frying Doom
#152 - 2012-12-10 22:49:57 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:

I agree 100% Vote for me, Verily say to you, I will not disappoint.

You might want to state what platform you are running on. Like for mission runners, miners, ratters ect. or are you another member of The Hi-sec Cowards Association?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#153 - 2012-12-10 23:36:00 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


High sec is not it's own little world. It doens't exist on a server that doesn't impact the rest of EVE. There is no dividing line were you can simply make changes in high sec for the sake of people who play only in high sec. High sec has impacts on other area of the game.

I completely agree.

Just as Null is not on its own server and the current CSMs idea of giving Null a massive supply of Hi-sec minerals would completely destroy the markets of Hi-sec.

All parts of this game are interconnected a nerf to one can be a boost to another, just as a huge boost to one can be a massive nerf to the other.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2012-12-10 23:39:28 UTC
I'd run if I thought anyone would vote for me.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Frying Doom
#155 - 2012-12-10 23:42:03 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I'd run if I thought anyone would vote for me.

Considering the last election required 1/3 of 1% to get a seat, it does not require that many people to vote for you.

Run or at least campaign for someone whos ideas you believe in.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2012-12-10 23:54:41 UTC
This CSM I think is the most Ballanced CSM to date for demographics.
A large chunk of Nullsec vote were lost be cause of a drunken incident

The improvements that currently have made highest better.
The change in Ai should make missions challenging vs a snore rest
Mining barge revamp now let's the care bear choose his risk to reward level
With the new bounty and aggression system now strips griefers of the old concord protection and. Care bears can place bounties on them, old trick that would make newbie go WHAT! now have clue what is going on

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#157 - 2012-12-11 00:01:09 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Go have a read in Jita Speakers Corners.
Have a look at my thread.

Have a read about what a certain CSM member supposedly representing high sec states, then read what I posted back with.

That should answer any questions you might have about high sec representation.

How about link the thread.


You can't make 2 clicks and look for a thread with my name?

You better hurry though. I imagine it will disappear soon.

Nope.

If you're going to direct me, do it right. Otherwise you're just teasing me.



OK, for those that want to see a CSM member who supposedly represents high sec display his ignorance of the new high sec AI mechanics and his utter contempt for high sec players, here you go:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180595&find=unread



All I see is you twisting someones words to try and imply he was wrong when based on the information you yourself linked he was correct. This constant grasping at straws to try and discredit people who disagree with you really doesnt help your case Dinsdale

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#158 - 2012-12-11 00:08:53 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I'd run if I thought anyone would vote for me.

Considering the last election required 1/3 of 1% to get a seat, it does not require that many people to vote for you.

Run or at least campaign for someone whos ideas you believe in.


I too would run, except for a few reasons:

1. It is clear that anyone who stridently opposes the null sec agenda and speaks for high sec play is labelled a loon, disruptive, and tossed off the CSM for "NDA violations".
2. As it has been stated many, many times, high sec players are far too disorganised to put proper high sec representation on the CSM. Kelduum had a 2000 char voting bloc called Eve UNI at his disposal, and Issler has name recognition. Anyone else that tried to run would get lost in the noise.
3. I fully expect to be muzzled soon by the ISD, permanently. People like me who fight against the injustices of the null sec regime disappear from the game, or at least the forums.
4. I really don't know how much longer I can stand this crap. This is supposed to be a game, something for me to enjoy. That enjoyment is fast eroding to nothingness, replaced by total anger, frustration, and despair. There you go null sec zealots, you have almost pushed me from the game. You almost have achieved another victory.

To be perfectly blunt, even one true "high sec zealot" (If I can call the current regime null sec zealots, I think it is only fair I be labelled a high sec zealot) is not enough to do anything. You need a minimum of 2, possibly 3 in the first 7 to avoid being ignored and drummed right out of the CSM. Being an alternate is not good enough.

That would mean basically getting 12,000 high sec chars all co-ordinated enough to strategically vote split 3 ways to ensure representation. And even if by some miracle you could get that organised, you would see such a coming together of the null sec vote like never before. The null sec regime, would be utterly terrified of 3 out of 7 CSM members being high sec, and would ensure a massive voter participation by null sec.

No, the vast vast majority of high sec players vote with their wallet instead.
Mark my words, this latest victory by the null sec zealots is not the last.
They have their sights set on high sec industry next.
Death by a thousand cuts is what we are witnessing.
Frying Doom
#159 - 2012-12-11 00:41:58 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I'd run if I thought anyone would vote for me.

Considering the last election required 1/3 of 1% to get a seat, it does not require that many people to vote for you.

Run or at least campaign for someone whos ideas you believe in.


I too would run, except for a few reasons:

1. It is clear that anyone who stridently opposes the null sec agenda and speaks for high sec play is labelled a loon, disruptive, and tossed off the CSM for "NDA violations".
2. As it has been stated many, many times, high sec players are far too disorganised to put proper high sec representation on the CSM. Kelduum had a 2000 char voting bloc called Eve UNI at his disposal, and Issler has name recognition. Anyone else that tried to run would get lost in the noise.
3. I fully expect to be muzzled soon by the ISD, permanently. People like me who fight against the injustices of the null sec regime disappear from the game, or at least the forums.
4. I really don't know how much longer I can stand this crap. This is supposed to be a game, something for me to enjoy. That enjoyment is fast eroding to nothingness, replaced by total anger, frustration, and despair. There you go null sec zealots, you have almost pushed me from the game. You almost have achieved another victory.

To be perfectly blunt, even one true "high sec zealot" (If I can call the current regime null sec zealots, I think it is only fair I be labelled a high sec zealot) is not enough to do anything. You need a minimum of 2, possibly 3 in the first 7 to avoid being ignored and drummed right out of the CSM. Being an alternate is not good enough.

That would mean basically getting 12,000 high sec chars all co-ordinated enough to strategically vote split 3 ways to ensure representation. And even if by some miracle you could get that organised, you would see such a coming together of the null sec vote like never before. The null sec regime, would be utterly terrified of 3 out of 7 CSM members being high sec, and would ensure a massive voter participation by null sec.

No, the vast vast majority of high sec players vote with their wallet instead.
Mark my words, this latest victory by the null sec zealots is not the last.
They have their sights set on high sec industry next.
Death by a thousand cuts is what we are witnessing.

It need not be the Null Sec Lobby Group.

We need people from lo-sec, hi-sec and wormholes to vote and vote hard and not for the same blow hards.

Yes the CSM does routinely mock hi-sec members who do not tow the line.

Did anyone notice who was in the last CSM Town Hall. Funny how it was the same members that are this years core of the Null sec lobby group.

So yes we need people not to leave but to vote, to *****, whine and hassle there fellow Hi-sec, lo-sec and WH residents into voting.

Only through sheer numbers can the full force of well lets face it, anyone not Null, can be felt.

You want to send CCP a message make 10,016 votes look insignificant. There are 400,000 accounts in this game, most of those are in high sec.

It is just a couple of clicks, once a year to tell CCP "Enough of this Crap"

VOTE

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Imports Plus
Doomheim
#160 - 2012-12-11 01:31:34 UTC
Still waiting for someone to articulate the issues currently facing highsec today.... lets hear it boys