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Dev blog: Brains! NOM NOM!

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sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#981 - 2012-12-08 06:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: sabastyian
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Lirinas wrote:
I'm followed AI changes with some concern over the last couple years. Although my main can use just about every weapon system under the sun, I've always preferred drones because most people preferred missiles.

A little drone hate is nice to keep the drone pilots from falling asleep on missions, but too much drone hate completely invalidates them as a practical weapon system. That's why you see hoards of Drakes & Tengus and not many Ishtars/Myrmidons in Wormhole space.

What I keep wondering is if/when we'll start seeing some anti-missile systems aside from Defenders. There's Real-World examples of anti-missile systems, and numerous suggestions on the forums over the years. If all NPC's now are going to be more aggressive in targeting drones, then it's only logical they should be more aggressive with anti-missile defenses as well.


As for the drone hate: This is something we are keeping a very close eye on and have already tweaked several times. We are working hard to find the right balance between just killing all drones and drone pilots having to pay attention.


Now that this patch is active, after long days of Lectures, PT for the Military, Studying Trig for Nuclear Engineering tests, i come home to running wormholes with a couple guys ( c6's, high stress, so we only do a couple sites a day ) and then i log on my Machaiel ratting alt to grind a little isk while relaxing and reading a book...but what's this? I can no longer do this because my drones get nearly alpha'd by a single frigate after my drones have been on grid for a matter of seconds? Sometimes i dual box Machariel and Paladin, both with local reps and rr from the other ship + the occasional OGB if i cba to log my booster alt on, i went from 110m an hour at full attention to around 70m an hour in a -1.0 system using a x-type t2 rigged pally and a machariel, total cost for fleet + implants and ogb, 6-7b? iph was 110m so not bad, now its 70, both bs get webbed td'd and drones killed....im not going anywhere, the carrier i used when i got bored, forget it..... you have effectively NERF'd 0.0 income so hardcore it isnt even funny or even wise to consider all the changes you have made to a already difficult income source. DED's - I used to run a 4x hard 1x RAH and 2x faction rep + 2x rr from my pally onto my machariel and barely tank the sites, but whats this? Now both both ships have to have a massive tank and do no dps? DED sites - average income for a 10/10 for me is around 200m in 2 hours running a mach/pally/ogb, but now i need to call in help as well, so now i have 2 friends with 3 chars each, 9 chars - 1 hour, 60m each? or 20m a char? Now i go to havens and invite the new guys from my corp to join me in ratting in havens and sanctums, but whats this? Now they die because they are getting hammered into low hit points, through out my eve career i have helped countless new people, invited so many people on haven's and lvl 4's ive lost count, i even invite 2 month old characterts into 10/10's with me so they can see whats it like...BUT NO LONGER!!! You have officialy made it impossible for small gang groups to do anything effective and have single handly put gallente back into the closet where they have been for so long that they rarely even know what the word "sunshine" means.

You're idea to "Buff pve and make it fun"

-Make it so all small group action for pve will be diminished in every way possible

-Make sure all drones die instantly so battleships are stuck in a site because their drones are getting alpha'd.

-Make 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10 so hard to run with such a little payout for the risk they arent worth it.

-Make exploration completely pointless and far above the risk factor.

-Make all Cosmo's/Deadspace NPC kill drones much quicker than incursions or Sleepers could ever dream of doing.

-Make all Anoms much harder to run and then remove carrier's from them

-Punish the new guy for not being several years into the game

-Have NPC instantly target you so you dont have a chance to warp off if its to much for you to handle or you have an emergeny to go to, now you have 5 minutes of agression.

-Make the EWAR such as TD's, ECM, Damps far more effective against ratters then pvpers

Do i actually need to go on? In the past 5-6 years i have played this game Npc's havent needed much of a change because they have been working as intended, yet here we are, at a patch that is supposed to change the pvp aspects of the game and you decide to nerf 0.0 income once again, and punish people for doing group work. Drakes do to much long range damage - nerf range and damage for HML, Afk-drone boats are dominating pvp ( i have yet to meet someone who actually does that ) so we nerf all drones to the point of being pointless, and now laugh as your multi billion isk investments are no longer able to move or function...... CCP if my subs on my 3 accounts had not just been reactivated i would probably quit simply because i dont play this game for high-end stress all day every day, there are times i play it to relax, and a simple ratting while reading a book is always a good stress reliver, until i have to stare at my screen all the time and no longer read my book.
Mund Richard
#982 - 2012-12-08 08:15:01 UTC
sabastyian wrote:
You're idea to "Buff pve and make it fun".

When did anyone ever claim this is a buff to PvE? Roll

Was clear from the start that it will be a nerf to isk efficience, but ty for your numbers.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Vereesa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#983 - 2012-12-08 12:03:01 UTC
From experience it's making cosmic anomalies for turret and drone boats a nightmare. The frigates will switch to your drones and eat them alive in less time than it takes for the drones to kill one enemy frigate.
For a non sentry droneboat it means you now have to wait for the frigs to get right up in your face and then micromanage your light drones like crazy. It's really not fun. Hell, it wasn't fun before but at least it wasn't stressful and I was making decent isk to fund pvp activities.

Slow down the aggro timer to a minute or so and it's all good. Then if you launch heavies and go afk you'll come back to find drones dead but it doesn't punish people who already use drones like a normal weapon system.
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#984 - 2012-12-08 13:13:55 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
sabastyian wrote:
You're idea to "Buff pve and make it fun".

When did anyone ever claim this is a buff to PvE? Roll

Was clear from the start that it will be a nerf to isk efficience, but ty for your numbers.


Agreed, we've known for most of the 50 pages of this thread this was just CCP nerfing income across the board.

I guess engaging in the Iceland dictionary has nothing to do with fun and / or enjoyment.
Mund Richard
#985 - 2012-12-08 14:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Vereesa wrote:
[...] it means you now have to wait for the frigs to get right up in your face and then micromanage your light drones like crazy. It's really not fun. Hell, it wasn't fun before but at least it wasn't stressful and I was making decent isk to fund pvp activities.

Slow down the aggro timer to a minute or so and it's all good. Then if you launch heavies and go afk you'll come back to find drones dead but it doesn't punish people who already use drones like a normal weapon system.

The first one is totally true.

The second... after having put EWAR mods on my ship, I found it manageable.
...Until due to rat death and not poking the next target fast enough, a drone dies (didn't happen yet to me, but did have one in low structure).
There is a cap on the target swap already (I believe, maybe not), but you do not know when it is, so you might just get unlucky and release before it.

Adigard wrote:
Agreed, we've known for most of the 50 pages of this thread this was just CCP nerfing income across the board.

I guess engaging in the Iceland dictionary has nothing to do with fun and / or enjoyment.

You know what really bites?
With the right setup, you can make isk easier, and not fear SBs at the moment ganking you in null...

"Engaging"... the word never meant fun for me, see also Stealth Bomber engaging my ship.
Come to think of it, NOW it does! Twisted (too bad I don't have a point that reaches far enough to stop them from warping off).

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#986 - 2012-12-09 00:29:51 UTC
Hi,

We respect peoples right to criticize but please do so in a constructive manner.

Thanks.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
wolftin21
#987 - 2012-12-09 04:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: wolftin21
SO how are we (drone boats) are suppose to make isk? if we wanted to fight npc with Sleep AI we would go into a wh but come on, whos the id10t that suggested sleeper ai to normal npc rats? CCP really screwed us on this patch. but heres an idea roll back to the normal npc ai and KEEP it that way and never add sleep ai to them, thats what worm holes are for.someone really wants to see more that 5k in subs to go down the drain.
Mund Richard
#988 - 2012-12-09 04:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Way to post after someone with a tag at his name asks for constructiveness.

Well, there was quite a bit of constructiveness, like how missions should probably be reworked to better accommodate the new AI (there are a few examples where it's quite bad, partially due to the broken full room agro), how this will be a nerf to mission isk efficiency and might need some tweaking (which may have been the aim, just like the loot nerf previously), PvPers complained that engaging someone in PvP near rats makes rats engage you instead (was really funny, saw it on TQ), and I bet there was a lot of constructiveness as well.

I believe the CCP responses were mainly:
"It's broken, but we are deploying it anyways, and fix it later"
They did look into some of it, removed Citadel Towers from the new AI, as it would clearly make places where it's employed undoable. Supposedly drone hate got lowered as well. Though there are still reports of drones dying right after launching.
We don't know how much CCP did to be honest after the first iteration, folk tend to get used to how bad something is, and not notice the improvement.
Full room agro is an unwanted sideeffect that sometimes occurs, sometimes doesn't, but they are prolly going to fix it soon.
There's a "bug" that only the first flight of drones gets attacked, known, will be fixed, not an exploit to exploit for now. Though not every ship has the luxury to exploit it, not to mention not everyone may want to do so. I for instance do not, but that's my personal quirk.
Also got some weird things going on with some of the NPC EWAR, mainly TD.

The AI seems to be going to stay the way it is for now, we should probably wait untill CCP FoxFire makes that post he mentioned earlier on the AI discussion, unless someone has a new idea, or we're just repeating the same circles (as I have just now).

Now also partially just repetition, and totally belongs to several other threads that have been active lately, but a huge part of fixing the impacts of this change is fixing drones themselves and their horrid interface.
Nothing new, just getting once more in the spotlight, more weighted than before.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#989 - 2012-12-09 05:01:57 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Now also partially just repetition, and totally belongs to several other threads that have been active lately, but a huge part of fixing the impacts of this change is fixing drones themselves and their horrid interface.
Nothing new, just getting once more in the spotlight, more weighted than before.


If would, as has been stated before, be lovely if this AI change actually triggered a drone UI or drone AI update.... but it's likely not in the cards unless there's a LOT more player rage.

For now I expect this is just another move by CCP because CCP and the CSM believes all the player's have too much ISK. Although, making ISK harder to obtain will just make people even more risk adverse... likely making the game even more boring. How exactly that helps any of us is beyond me... but I'm sure someone at CCP has a wonderfully bright idea. /sarcasm tag needed?

Long and the short of it is... if you enjoyed PvE before you'll simply adapt. Yes, they've made it less enjoyable, but if you enjoyed it you'll find a way. I personally don't appreciate that notion, but that's the direction CCP is going today.
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#990 - 2012-12-09 15:31:32 UTC
Any word on a fix for this 'Whole room agro' issue? Been 5 days now.

Can't speak for others, but I'm not going to risk my T2 fit CNR over the decent chance that I can warp into a mission, be scrammed by 4 or 5 elite frigates, and then die in less than two minutes. When you've got 10+ frigates targeting you at once, that instantly lock any deployed drone and destroy it in less than 10 seconds, it's kind of , well, futile.

Meanwhile I guess I'll just hang out on my mining character raking in profits from scordite.

I can understand wanting to make missions more interactive and engaging, but having a high risk of 'warp in, get targeted by everything, get popped before you can warp out' is pretty silly.
Jess Maine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#991 - 2012-12-09 17:04:10 UTC
I wonder how many praising this system are now regretting their support.
Mund Richard
#992 - 2012-12-09 17:07:07 UTC
Adigard wrote:
/sarcasm tag needed?

I do not approve of this message as it would be put on my avatar and/or every forum post I make.

Question is only, if by me, or some mod.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Rengerel en Distel
#993 - 2012-12-09 21:48:05 UTC
Jess Maine wrote:
I wonder how many praising this system are now regretting their support.


The only ones that praised this system were people that didn't mission in the first place, so therefor didn't care that it makes missioning harder, or had mission ships that wouldn't be affected by the change.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#994 - 2012-12-10 16:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
sabastyian wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Lirinas wrote:
I'm followed AI changes with some concern over the last couple years. Although my main can use just about every weapon system under the sun, I've always preferred drones because most people preferred missiles.

A little drone hate is nice to keep the drone pilots from falling asleep on missions, but too much drone hate completely invalidates them as a practical weapon system. That's why you see hoards of Drakes & Tengus and not many Ishtars/Myrmidons in Wormhole space.

What I keep wondering is if/when we'll start seeing some anti-missile systems aside from Defenders. There's Real-World examples of anti-missile systems, and numerous suggestions on the forums over the years. If all NPC's now are going to be more aggressive in targeting drones, then it's only logical they should be more aggressive with anti-missile defenses as well.


As for the drone hate: This is something we are keeping a very close eye on and have already tweaked several times. We are working hard to find the right balance between just killing all drones and drone pilots having to pay attention.


Now that this patch is active, after long days of Lectures, PT for the Military, Studying Trig for Nuclear Engineering tests, i come home to running wormholes with a couple guys ( c6's, high stress, so we only do a couple sites a day ) and then i log on my Machaiel ratting alt to grind a little isk while relaxing and reading a book...but what's this? I can no longer do this because my drones get nearly alpha'd by a single frigate after my drones have been on grid for a matter of seconds? Sometimes i dual box Machariel and Paladin, both with local reps and rr from the other ship + the occasional OGB if i cba to log my booster alt on, i went from 110m an hour at full attention to around 70m an hour in a -1.0 system using a x-type t2 rigged pally and a machariel, total cost for fleet + implants and ogb, 6-7b? iph was 110m so not bad, now its 70, both bs get webbed td'd and drones killed....im not going anywhere, the carrier i used when i got bored, forget it..... you have effectively NERF'd 0.0 income so hardcore it isnt even funny or even wise to consider all the changes you have made to a already difficult income source. DED's - I used to run a 4x hard 1x RAH and 2x faction rep + 2x rr from my pally onto my machariel and barely tank the sites, but whats this? Now both both ships have to have a massive tank and do no dps? DED sites - average income for a 10/10 for me is around 200m in 2 hours running a mach/pally/ogb, but now i need to call in help as well, so now i have 2 friends with 3 chars each, 9 chars - 1 hour, 60m each? or 20m a char? Now i go to havens and invite the new guys from my corp to join me in ratting in havens and sanctums, but whats this? Now they die because they are getting hammered into low hit points, through out my eve career i have helped countless new people, invited so many people on haven's and lvl 4's ive lost count, i even invite 2 month old characterts into 10/10's with me so they can see whats it like...BUT NO LONGER!!! You have officialy made it impossible for small gang groups to do anything effective and have single handly put gallente back into the closet where they have been for so long that they rarely even know what the word "sunshine" means.

You're idea to "Buff pve and make it fun"

-Make it so all small group action for pve will be diminished in every way possible

-Make sure all drones die instantly so battleships are stuck in a site because their drones are getting alpha'd.

-Make 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10 so hard to run with such a little payout for the risk they arent worth it.

-Make exploration completely pointless and far above the risk factor.

-Make all Cosmo's/Deadspace NPC kill drones much quicker than incursions or Sleepers could ever dream of doing.

-Make all Anoms much harder to run and then remove carrier's from them

-Punish the new guy for not being several years into the game

-Have NPC instantly target you so you dont have a chance to warp off if its to much for you to handle or you have an emergeny to go to, now you have 5 minutes of agression.

-Make the EWAR such as TD's, ECM, Damps far more effective against ratters then pvpers

Do i actually need to go on? In the past 5-6 years i have played this game Npc's havent needed much of a change because they have been working as intended, yet here we are, at a patch that is supposed to change the pvp aspects of the game and you decide to nerf 0.0 income once again, and punish people for doing group work. Drakes do to much long range damage - nerf range and damage for HML, Afk-drone boats are dominating pvp ( i have yet to meet someone who actually does that ) so we nerf all drones to the point of being pointless, and now laugh as your multi billion isk investments are no longer able to move or function...... CCP if my subs on my 3 accounts had not just been reactivated i would probably quit simply because i dont play this game for high-end stress all day every day, there are times i play it to relax, and a simple ratting while reading a book is always a good stress reliver, until i have to stare at my screen all the time and no longer read my book.


I think this pretty well said and covers biggest issues this patch has. Pls fix..

Cant even imagine what some new player thinks when he moves from lvl3's to lvl4's buys raven and lose it in first mission. Those lvl4's was pretty darn hard for new low skill players prepatch. I know this from experience..


Edit: Also PLEASE bring back divisions in my carriers CHA. This current undivisioned thing is horrific nightmare and it makes me not want use my carrier because everytime i need to use 2 hours to sort stuff in CHA. As there is so much different stuff that cannot be mixed to other stuff. Also many carrier pilots helps their corpmates to move their stuff in null etc
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#995 - 2012-12-10 22:12:00 UTC
sabastyian wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Lirinas wrote:
I'm followed AI changes with some concern over the last couple years. Although my main can use just about every weapon system under the sun, I've always preferred drones because most people preferred missiles.

A little drone hate is nice to keep the drone pilots from falling asleep on missions, but too much drone hate completely invalidates them as a practical weapon system. That's why you see hoards of Drakes & Tengus and not many Ishtars/Myrmidons in Wormhole space.

What I keep wondering is if/when we'll start seeing some anti-missile systems aside from Defenders. There's Real-World examples of anti-missile systems, and numerous suggestions on the forums over the years. If all NPC's now are going to be more aggressive in targeting drones, then it's only logical they should be more aggressive with anti-missile defenses as well.


As for the drone hate: This is something we are keeping a very close eye on and have already tweaked several times. We are working hard to find the right balance between just killing all drones and drone pilots having to pay attention.


Now that this patch is active, after long days of Lectures, PT for the Military, Studying Trig for Nuclear Engineering tests, i come home to running wormholes with a couple guys ( c6's, high stress, so we only do a couple sites a day ) and then i log on my Machaiel ratting alt to grind a little isk while relaxing and reading a book...but what's this? I can no longer do this because my drones get nearly alpha'd by a single frigate after my drones have been on grid for a matter of seconds? Sometimes i dual box Machariel and Paladin, both with local reps and rr from the other ship + the occasional OGB if i cba to log my booster alt on, i went from 110m an hour at full attention to around 70m an hour in a -1.0 system using a x-type t2 rigged pally and a machariel, total cost for fleet + implants and ogb, 6-7b? iph was 110m so not bad, now its 70, both bs get webbed td'd and drones killed....im not going anywhere, the carrier i used when i got bored, forget it..... you have effectively NERF'd 0.0 income so hardcore it isnt even funny or even wise to consider all the changes you have made to a already difficult income source. DED's - I used to run a 4x hard 1x RAH and 2x faction rep + 2x rr from my pally onto my machariel and barely tank the sites, but whats this? Now both both ships have to have a massive tank and do no dps? DED sites - average income for a 10/10 for me is around 200m in 2 hours running a mach/pally/ogb, but now i need to call in help as well, so now i have 2 friends with 3 chars each, 9 chars - 1 hour, 60m each? or 20m a char? Now i go to havens and invite the new guys from my corp to join me in ratting in havens and sanctums, but whats this? Now they die because they are getting hammered into low hit points, through out my eve career i have helped countless new people, invited so many people on haven's and lvl 4's ive lost count, i even invite 2 month old characterts into 10/10's with me so they can see whats it like...BUT NO LONGER!!! You have officialy made it impossible for small gang groups to do anything effective and have single handly put gallente back into the closet where they have been for so long that they rarely even know what the word "sunshine" means.

You're idea to "Buff pve and make it fun"

-Make it so all small group action for pve will be diminished in every way possible

-Make sure all drones die instantly so battleships are stuck in a site because their drones are getting alpha'd.

-Make 8/10, 9/10 and 10/10 so hard to run with such a little payout for the risk they arent worth it.

-Make exploration completely pointless and far above the risk factor.

-Make all Cosmo's/Deadspace NPC kill drones much quicker than incursions or Sleepers could ever dream of doing.

-Make all Anoms much harder to run and then remove carrier's from them

-Punish the new guy for not being several years into the game

-Have NPC instantly target you so you dont have a chance to warp off if its to much for you to handle or you have an emergeny to go to, now you have 5 minutes of agression.

-Make the EWAR such as TD's, ECM, Damps far more effective against ratters then pvpers

Do i actually need to go on? In the past 5-6 years i have played this game Npc's havent needed much of a change because they have been working as intended, yet here we are, at a patch that is supposed to change the pvp aspects of the game and you decide to nerf 0.0 income once again, and punish people for doing group work. Drakes do to much long range damage - nerf range and damage for HML, Afk-drone boats are dominating pvp ( i have yet to meet someone who actually does that ) so we nerf all drones to the point of being pointless, and now laugh as your multi billion isk investments are no longer able to move or function...... CCP if my subs on my 3 accounts had not just been reactivated i would probably quit simply because i dont play this game for high-end stress all day every day, there are times i play it to relax, and a simple ratting while reading a book is always a good stress reliver, until i have to stare at my screen all the time and no longer read my book.


cant lose a ship?... ok well listen you should LOSE your ship if you do something wrong and they should not leave you a chance at it, they are supposed to be mean there pirates :P

secondly, you are totally wrong about the noob thing, i went into lots of level4 with them, they do get shot sometimes but that SHOULD happen (lols ya guess that one) though i just carry around some ECM drones and get primary rigth away

i dont see any problems with the current system, i hope they keep trying to make them harder to play with, and maybe they could increase the money made off of them at the same time
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#996 - 2012-12-10 22:17:57 UTC
wolftin21 wrote:
SO how are we (drone boats) are suppose to make isk? if we wanted to fight npc with Sleep AI we would go into a wh but come on, whos the id10t that suggested sleeper ai to normal npc rats? CCP really screwed us on this patch. but heres an idea roll back to the normal npc ai and KEEP it that way and never add sleep ai to them, thats what worm holes are for.someone really wants to see more that 5k in subs to go down the drain.


drone boats has the gallente "dominix" now use proper fittings, fit it with blasters and keep your drones around you or close enougth, just pick em up when you need to.. works really well, if you wanna snipe then get some sentry's the only time you should be hanging your drones farther is because you need to like whne you kill ligther units and need to take light drones. they go fast enougth its not a worry

also to note, i made countless level4 and 5 since the patch and my drones be rally got scratch.... why do pple say there drones are getting all killed... poor little things!!>? i mean i know how hard it can be vs Sleepers but... these level4 dont even care much about drones. although i can tell you how much they HATE logistics, though if you have 2 on grid its impossible for them to do anything....
TOPSTER
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#997 - 2012-12-10 22:27:51 UTC
Well, I guess the Kronos is staying put till they unfrack things.... Lol I ran one LvL 4 post-patch so far (Rouge Slave Trader Sanshas), warped in instantly got full room agro, thought to myself "hmm interesting....". Proceeded to shoot Battleship and BC's... they went pop like always but when I launched my drones to go for the friggies (bearing in mind that I was and had been red-boxed by all the frigs for some time), sent them to the first one and looked away for literllay 3-5 seconds as my German Shepherd decided it was time to pounce one me, looked back and I had exactly one drone left with about 20% structure. I rubbed my eyes and was like WTF Shocked as my last Hobgoblin II went >POOF<. Ugh

I discovered though with some clever launch / attack / recall /launch / attack / recall you can kill a frigate with T2 smalls in just about the same amount of time it takes to kill two BS NPC's....

So yeah...Roll
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#998 - 2012-12-10 22:30:07 UTC
Personally i love this full room agro glitch.. i always liked agroing everything at once so i can kill it after and dont mind about where im moving to not get to far, and i never had any problems with it... i dont think playing with aggression in the way of "dotn get closer then 30 and they wont care about you" has ever made it fun actualy this is why pve is about has boring has mining, i can predict an asteroid wont move, i can also predict how much dps, how much speed, how much tank, i will need in a mission without problems, i can even warp out if i was wrong

whats wrong with killing noobs in level4s? should the level4s not be that hardest of highsec? the hardest missions before level5? ya.. i think so, then again they are not really easy at all.. i tryed some level 5s last nigth droped an abaddon in with a good buff, and a few logis just to test the new T1s and seems like its relatively easy... damn i was multiboxing it so i know...

so again tell me whats wrong with making pve hard? even if its not really hard at all yet.. id really like to know
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#999 - 2012-12-10 22:33:43 UTC
TOPSTER wrote:
Well, I guess the Kronos is staying put till they unfrack things.... Lol I ran one LvL 4 post-patch so far (Rouge Slave Trader Sanshas), warped in instantly got full room agro, thought to myself "hmm interesting....". Proceeded to shoot Battleship and BC's... they went pop like always but when I launched my drones to go for the friggies (bearing in mind that I was and had been red-boxed by all the frigs for some time), sent them to the first one and looked away for literllay 3-5 seconds as my German Shepherd decided it was time to pounce one me, looked back and I had exactly one drone left with about 20% structure. I rubbed my eyes and was like WTF Shocked as my last Hobgoblin II went >POOF<. Ugh

I discovered though with some clever launch / attack / recall /launch / attack / recall you can kill a frigate with T2 smalls in just about the same amount of time it takes to kill two BS NPC's....

So yeah...Roll


yes... they know how dangerous it is to have drones on them.... hehe, and wait a sec.. am i the only one whos only having little problems if any with these frigates? every time i launch a drone i just check hes health all the time they get targeted some time.. but they never get targeted every time...... i just keep them in until i need them out and chekc an eye on them... normally if enemys are far i take them in instead of making them run if i hade large drones for example...
Mund Richard
#1000 - 2012-12-10 22:37:12 UTC
Depending on the mission's composition, it can take less than 20 seconds to kill a full flight.
Which is a lot shorter than a sudden wife/mom agro takes to cloak away from with a scam of "sure, I'll take out the trash in a sec".

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.