These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How come null is so empty

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2012-12-10 21:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Shylari Avada
Marlona Sky wrote:
Those hundreds will take longer to get to he destination and you will have less due to the lazys not wanting to put forth the effort into traveling the distance. As far as your guys deployed; ask yourself why, out of thousands and thousands in your coalition, did so few choose to go?

The answer is complex and vast and ultimately the issue with the current stagnation of null.


I think that huge 'NAP FEST' you love to point out is the direct result of our diplomatic team and our alliance leadership being separate entities, and neither of those entities are full of or headed up by an emotional, drunk egotist.

NCdot had it's own little block going on for some time, which invariably crumbled after criticizing your main FC (that was responsible for holding all that space you didn't want anyway) only to build up into a huge amalgam of stupid and mad that forced the US Leader out of your alliance... over what you ask? A falcon (that didn't even die) that had a T2 BPO that he magicked away from Goons.

Please continue to purchase Geminate Tech Moons from us while talking about NAPs/NIPs, space diplomacy, and elite pvp.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#182 - 2012-12-10 21:51:04 UTC
La Volpe DaFlorence wrote:
Come on guys, everyone knows my avatar scared them back into high-sec.

On a serious note, maybe there just aren't enough rewards to null? Or maybe because it's filled with whiny children making sandcastles who instantly destroy eachothers creations. Is that bad? Nope.

Everyone knows that the balance of risk versus reward for the entire game is not balanced. One question is why increase the reward when super coalitions are risking less and less as they absorb more and more alliances into their folds. At the rate things are going; in about six more months there will be nothing left in null that is not part of the largest coalition of blues in the history of this game.

And they will still cry on the forums why there are no targets in null.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#183 - 2012-12-10 22:04:19 UTC
Shylari Avada wrote:
I think that huge 'NAP FEST' you love to point out is the direct result of our diplomatic team and our alliance leadership being separate entities, and neither of those entities are full of or headed up by an emotional, drunk egotist.

Um, everyone saw what your glorious leader did at fan fest. If that doesn't count as a drunk, emotional egotist then nothing does.
Shylari Avada wrote:
NCdot had it's own little block going on for some time, which invariably crumbled after criticizing your main FC (that was responsible for holding all that space you didn't want anyway) only to build up into a huge amalgam of stupid and mad that forced the US Leader out of your alliance... over what you ask? A falcon (that didn't even die) that had a T2 BPO that he magicked away from Goons.

Some exaggeration here and it was plainly stated we did want that space. Why do you keep lying so much and exagerating?
Shylari Avada wrote:
Please continue to purchase Geminate Tech Moons from us while talking about NAPs/NIPs, space diplomacy, and elite pvp.

Tech is still by far the best ISK printing machines along side T2 BPOs. Not going to pass up taking some if your willing to sell them at a good price. I know you guys love to point at the alchemy change and demand everyone to stop talking about tech moons.

Is there any more dancing you plan on doing?
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#184 - 2012-12-10 22:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Why bother to engage in actual nullsec PvP when your killboards can look so awesome from highsec ganking? Those guys dont shoot back, and your not going to get a super-massive capital fleet titan bridged onto your face.


Mostly because most actual PvPers do it for fun (as in, they look for good fights against competent opponents where victory actually brings satisfaction and loss brings respect).

Killboards are meaningless, good hunts and combat is what PvPers strive for, not K/Ds.


Bull****. Have yet to encounter ANY pvper in this entire game in years that would NOT chase an empty Badger through 5 systems for the killmail.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#185 - 2012-12-10 22:18:19 UTC
Removed an off topic and offensive post. Please keep it civil and on topic. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#186 - 2012-12-10 22:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
How come null is so empty?

Because hi-sex isn't. Big smile

Logistics mostly. And then there is the fact most alliances don't pay their members. Its more of a come fight with us, die and if you happen to make cash in our space we won't hold it against you deal.

The thing is I can make cash in Empire in numbers Null can't touch, at least not as easily and with far greater risk.

And we aren't talking missions either. Its trading.

And no nerf or change will ever have EVEs economic capital in a boonies null sec location.

Much like organizing random players in hisec to fight a gaming community like goonswarm for the economic capital to migrate out in alliance space would require an alliance to not only provide a very high security in their space but to not have a kill them for giggles mentality, too much work with a half a decade starting process.
Just a few bad apples would wreck the trust a "government" claiming sov could build and establish. Unless the alliance was prepared to insure against loss like that.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#187 - 2012-12-10 22:29:14 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Is there any more dancing you plan on doing?


I hope you're not unironically going "dance puppets dance Twisted"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#188 - 2012-12-10 22:42:10 UTC
A large part of it also has to do with the nature of warfare in 0.0 space.

In history, wars are traditionally fought over resources. Since 0.0 politics are often compared to feudalism, allow me to use that as example.

The Kingdom of France invades the Kingdom of Britain. French forces drive up the coast to the major centers of power, ransacking and looting along the way. Once the British rulers are conquered, the French turn to the remaining towns and villages (the majority of which remain intact) and say, "We are you're rulers now! You pay your taxes to us!" And life goes on.

In 0.0 space, there are no peasants. Alliances don't need peasants and their taxes because a) there's no way to actually collect any sort of taxation at the alliance level, and b) alliances make their money from the magical fount of moon goo. And because alliances make money from moon goo, they only want people who can help them defend it.

Imagine if EvE allowed some form of taxation on alliance member corps. It would then be in an invader's best interest *not* to burn an entire region to the ground as they could inherit the taxation infrastructure of the conquered alliance.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#189 - 2012-12-11 02:18:01 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Looks like the *objective* in null has been met

Guess the victors are awaiting the next thing to do, but there's nothing on the cards.

No one's coming / forming anything bigger to challenge you.

Grats

So, CCP, now what?



I told them twice in the past: they got the "GRATS, YOU WON!" victory video gingle, the scrolling titles, the credits and the final "Game over - The end" closing fanfare.

Most logic thing everybody do at this point is to play another game. They keep staring at the rolling titles - now rolling for the 28th time - like it's an hypnotic scroll and do... nothing but reload save games, viewing past screen shots.

I guess it's their money, they decide to spend how long to aimlessy stare at the rolling credits with that bored look.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#190 - 2012-12-11 03:00:36 UTC
Harland White wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Why bother to engage in actual nullsec PvP when your killboards can look so awesome from highsec ganking? Those guys dont shoot back, and your not going to get a super-massive capital fleet titan bridged onto your face.


Mostly because most actual PvPers do it for fun (as in, they look for good fights against competent opponents where victory actually brings satisfaction and loss brings respect).

Killboards are meaningless, good hunts and combat is what PvPers strive for, not K/Ds.


Bull****. Have yet to encounter ANY pvper in this entire game in years that would NOT chase an empty Badger through 5 systems for the killmail.

Empty as in we were able to scan it, somehow not just murdering it when we got a lock, and it DIDN'T have a cyno with a waiting titan/blob combo?

What are they doing ?!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-12-11 03:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Riddick Liddell
Skydell wrote:
Right click space, drop down to planet, drop down to Customs Office, Show Info.

No null system is "empty". No WH is "Empty". No Low sec system is "empty". "I flew through, there was nobody there" does not mean it is empty. Go to the map, click statistics. Pirate and police ships destroyed in the last 24 hrs. No system in EVE is empty. People have learned how to not be a target in a FFA PvP game world. That's all it means.


90% of null is only accessible by choke point.
You can't sneak in to most of Null. The railway systems won't allow for it.
Frying Doom
#192 - 2012-12-11 03:11:56 UTC
Riddick Liddell wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Right click space, drop down to planet, drop down to Customs Office, Show Info.

No null system is "empty". No WH is "Empty". No Low sec system is "empty". "I flew through, there was nobody there" does not mean it is empty. Go to the map, click statistics. Pirate and police ships destroyed in the last 24 hrs. No system in EVE is empty. People have learned how to not be a target in a FFA PvP game world. That's all it means.


90% of null is only accessible by choke point.
You can't sneak in to most of Null. The railway systems won't allow for it.

If you go to get a drink of milk but someone drank it 24 hours earlier, does that not make it empty?

The fact a POCO is owned by a corp means someone was there a while ago days, weeks, months, who knows.

A better example of has a space been getting used is http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Delve/SVM-3K#npc24
and
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Delve/SVM-3K#kills24

for example, so many 0s does not make this space look used just passed through by someone.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2012-12-11 03:30:43 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
How come null is so empty?

Because hi-sex isn't. Big smile



That's a brilliant deduction! I'm surprised that any people left highsec in the first place since it's so great. Roll

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#194 - 2012-12-11 10:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Shylari Avada
Marlona Sky wrote:
Um, everyone saw what your glorious leader did at fan fest. If that doesn't count as a drunk, emotional egotist then nothing does.


People say stupid things when wildly intoxicated, some just happen to be on a live web broadcast at the time... Lol

Marlona Sky wrote:
Some exaggeration here and it was plainly stated we did want that space. Why do you keep lying so much and exagerating?


So all those people in NCdot talking about going back to their old (Triumvirate) ways of being a nomadic PvP alliance were all lying, on your own forums it was a heated topic and your alliance was literally torn almost evenly in half about holding sov or not holding sov. I am not 'exagerating', merely repeating the drivel that spewed forth like a fountain as we took almost all of your space that you (did/did not) want.

It was awesome of NCdot to fund Nulli's warchest for helping you lose a region, while shoving off the only people that helped you desperately hold on to it for as long as you did. Not only did you alienate your allies, but you managed to alienate your own member corps. I'm sure you will tout this off as uninformed bias, so I'll just say 'slopes for the slope throne'

If this was too much truth, all at once, let me know- and I'll spread it across multiple (good/bad) posts in the future.

Marlona Sky wrote:
Is there any more dancing you plan on doing?


With enough Rum, anything is possible.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#195 - 2012-12-11 11:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Sentamon wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
How come null is so empty?

Because hi-sex isn't. Big smile



That's a brilliant deduction! I'm surprised that any people left highsec in the first place since it's so great. Roll



I think its fits well. You can only count those that are playing EVE not future subscribers. So for those playing EVE if null appears empty its because hi sec isn't.

I think hisec is just fine though it needs a risk and nonconsensual pvp rule revamp.

Great markets, billions traded daily, no blind corner gate camps with bubbles and such without a war dec, mission hubs, alot of people to interact with, etc.

I think way too many nullsec'rs overplay how relevant they are to an alliances success. Ask yourself if you left the alliance today would it fall apart tomorrow. If the answers no you aren't really anyone special just another hisec'r doing something new. I understand its a team contribution but the point remains.

Because if it weren't for the fact you are in an alliance you wouldn't be out endlessly roaming nullsec solo either.

EVE is a logistics nightmare for the average player. You start adding in uncompensated losses, reasonable expectations of CTAs, potentially no defense for industrialists and on top of that the application & screening for membership to an alliance and it can be overwhelming. Having to ask to join can be really difficult for some. You'd see alot more people in Nullsec if those alliances actively invited people, but they don't. They want the average joe to apply so they can demand levels of access to information they have zero right too, and usually they ask with no thought to what rewards they are offering to the recruit for bothering.

Basically, most avoid nullsec because the people who run the show suck at making them feel welcome and instead often adopt a grovel at my feet to live under my dictatorship philosphy. If you see a particular alliance succeeding its probably because they are the exception to the forementioned.

No nerf or amount of rage will change that. Its up to the alliances to fix it. Or make do with what they have.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#196 - 2012-12-11 11:31:05 UTC
Because "I'm not ready to move to nullsec."
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#197 - 2012-12-11 16:02:25 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
It basically boils down to this.

A lot of space in nullsec is essentially worthless. Key systems are extremely desireable. Because of this, there is a lot of "dead space" between hubs of activity.

Hub systems can be extremely busy. When TEST isn't deployed, K-6 can have more people in it than Dodixie. Each nullsec alliance will have 1-2 major hubs, no more, as centralization is convenient.

Outside this, particularly good ratting systems will have constant activity. These are usually -1.0 truesec or close to it.

People rarely, if ever, camp gates in null. It is boring and not very productive. People instead tend to hunt for targets. There are a few exceptions, like severe choke points, hostile pipes during major PvP activity or enemy deployment, and highsec-to-nullsec gates.

If you want to find people, visit hubs or areas where fleets are being active. Any war front is sure to have camped gates, fleets, small roams, scouts, etc flying absolutely everywhere. If you want to see people, identify an alliance hub and pay a visit, just don't expect to be welcomed with open arms.

It just isn't very representative of nullsec to fly through a few dozen backwoods systems and think "man nullsec is so empty", because lemme tell you, when a nullsec system gets hot, it gets really f'ing hot.

The funny part is, *any* system in nullsec can be upgraded to awesome.

Just look at what you get with a single station and all system upgrades in place.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Survey_Networks_5
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ore_Prospecting_Array_5
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Entrapment_Array_5
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pirate_Detection_Array_5

One constellation can support dozens of active PvE players this way, but we don't see high-density nullsec development like that for some reason apart from the hubs themselves.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#198 - 2012-12-11 16:06:34 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Because "I'm not ready to move to nullsec."

Playing in nullsec involves forced social activity, since people control the space.

Playing in highsec does not.

Just a guess, but don't you suspect that introverts would actually do better in "crowded" highsec since they don't need to be on voice comms all the time with *other people*?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-12-11 16:33:38 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Null can't possibly be empty. There's all the valuable anoms, all the valuable rox, all the valuable NPCs, all the serious elite pew... What the hell are you talking about?!?!?!



If you read the OP again, I think what they are saying is that there is no one looking for fights.

He is not lamenting the lack of ratters or miners that safed up as soon as he jumped into system. It is my experience (as one of those nullears, that there is no lock of people in null making ISK and minerals.

However, I will go along with the OP that there were not many of us rushing into our PVP ships to jump the roams when they came through. Give them fights and they just come back, and them coming back messes with ISK/hour. Better to just let them pass on through and be bored. That way, they are less likely to come back.


Congratulations. Sounds like you have truly made the game into a job where isk per hour is the only thing that matters. And here I thought games are supposed to be a form of entertainment. Seriously, why do you even play if it's boring, or if the game is better when it's boring? What's the point?

I guess I'll never understand that kind of mindset.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#200 - 2012-12-11 16:41:18 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
It basically boils down to this.

A lot of space in nullsec is essentially worthless. Key systems are extremely desireable. Because of this, there is a lot of "dead space" between hubs of activity.

Hub systems can be extremely busy. When TEST isn't deployed, K-6 can have more people in it than Dodixie. Each nullsec alliance will have 1-2 major hubs, no more, as centralization is convenient.

Outside this, particularly good ratting systems will have constant activity. These are usually -1.0 truesec or close to it.

People rarely, if ever, camp gates in null. It is boring and not very productive. People instead tend to hunt for targets. There are a few exceptions, like severe choke points, hostile pipes during major PvP activity or enemy deployment, and highsec-to-nullsec gates.

If you want to find people, visit hubs or areas where fleets are being active. Any war front is sure to have camped gates, fleets, small roams, scouts, etc flying absolutely everywhere. If you want to see people, identify an alliance hub and pay a visit, just don't expect to be welcomed with open arms.

It just isn't very representative of nullsec to fly through a few dozen backwoods systems and think "man nullsec is so empty", because lemme tell you, when a nullsec system gets hot, it gets really f'ing hot.

The funny part is, *any* system in nullsec can be upgraded to awesome.

Just look at what you get with a single station and all system upgrades in place.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Survey_Networks_5
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ore_Prospecting_Array_5
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Entrapment_Array_5
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pirate_Detection_Array_5

One constellation can support dozens of active PvE players this way, but we don't see high-density nullsec development like that for some reason apart from the hubs themselves.


This is evidence of someone who doesn't spend any time in null because they think "any system can be upgraded to awesome".