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Missions & Complexes

 
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Message to CCP - New AI completely destroyed complexes

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Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2012-12-10 19:17:10 UTC
sooo what you saying is null bears now need to pay attention when plexing and running anoms.... Life is tough when you can't cyno in the blobs Twisted
I can't remember the last time I saw wh dwellers complain about drone AI. Maybe you should go ask for help in the wh thread, but a small hint would be that perhaps there is a reason RR tengu's are soooo popular in wh's..
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#22 - 2012-12-10 19:48:51 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
sooo what you saying is null bears now need to pay attention when plexing and running anoms.... Life is tough when you can't cyno in the blobs Twisted
I can't remember the last time I saw wh dwellers complain about drone AI. Maybe you should go ask for help in the wh thread, but a small hint would be that perhaps there is a reason RR tengu's are soooo popular in wh's..


Read the post directly before yours then ask yourself 'Is it time to stop posting?'

Not today spaghetti.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2012-12-10 19:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Cage Man wrote:
sooo what you saying is null bears now need to pay attention when plexing and running anoms.... Life is tough when you can't cyno in the blobs Twisted
I can't remember the last time I saw wh dwellers complain about drone AI. Maybe you should go ask for help in the wh thread, but a small hint would be that perhaps there is a reason RR tengu's are soooo popular in wh's..


Why, i can't either. What say CCP makes THEM warp in on 64 sleepers (a 3rd of which will be battleships) and see how that RR Tengu set up does??

Or could it be that CCP made wormholes/incursions (the advanced AI content) with the sleep/incursion sansha in mind, where as the older complexes and missions were made with the old AI behavior in mind, thus the current problem.

Some people can't step away from their own prejudices long enough to see the real issues being discussed, and that's a shame.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#24 - 2012-12-10 22:03:03 UTC

Some of the plexes probably are imbalanced with the AI changes...

Test it out on Sisi... experiment... there are ways to pull NPC aggro.... so perhaps you need to learn the new tricks and tools of the trade.

Massive whine threadnaughts don't accomplish anything.. and are generally seen as worthless.... If you see a problem, explain it, explain what you have tried and how/why it didn't work, and try not to put soooo many delicious tears in your thread....

Moar tears == entertaining, but much less likely to have your forum replied to by anything other than trolls looking for more tears!
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2012-12-10 22:51:04 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Cage Man wrote:
sooo what you saying is null bears now need to pay attention when plexing and running anoms.... Life is tough when you can't cyno in the blobs Twisted
I can't remember the last time I saw wh dwellers complain about drone AI. Maybe you should go ask for help in the wh thread, but a small hint would be that perhaps there is a reason RR tengu's are soooo popular in wh's..


Read the post directly before yours then ask yourself 'Is it time to stop posting?'


I probably should.. but then I will be bored at work...
Ranger64511
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-12-10 23:47:07 UTC
White Sorceress wrote:

CCP you really should employ someone like me who can test your new changes before you destroy the most important thing and that's income for most people (making ISK by shooting NPC).


Stopped reading here as I didn't care what he had to say considering the changers were on Buckingham/Duality for weeks before TQ. Way to pay attention and then rage about it.

This is my gate. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My gate is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my gate is useless. Without my gate, I am useless.
Raketefrau
ConHugeCo
#27 - 2012-12-10 23:52:06 UTC
White Sorceress wrote:
There is not any single ship that can deal intelligent amount of dps, is fast enough, has good enough range of guns and can have tank over 1k dps that is needed for all rooms except the last room.


I, too, am enraged!

CCP needs make ship that solos 10/10!!!

Until then, I, too, withdraw my 1/4000th percentile of income to Iceland!

You make the NPCs powerfuller and makes me think sometimes about what I'm doing!@! Isn't FAIR!!!!

I have the right reserved to not think!! Evil Icelanders to not interfere with my braindeads!
Farlig Ekorre
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-12-11 00:52:31 UTC
The real rub I have with this change is the fact it hurts the people most who actively play Eve by exploring, running plexes and ratting. In other words, the people who work for the isk are the most harmed, making this a de facto regressive taxation.

Those who sit on their arse and harvest moons and renters will see no change in revenues. Simultaneously, the little guy is getting squeezed by higher costs for deadspace equipment and decreased income.

To do an 8/10, taking hours, for the same reward as a week ago, but immensely higher risk, is a regressive policy. Secondly, the fact these complexes (and missions for that extent) were designed around a 'dumber' AI makes them imbalanced.

I'm down a golem and two basilisks and have decided to dock up and **** this ****. There's nothing worse than sitting in a marauder, unable to hit the warp scrambling frigates, unable to release drones (or have them alpha'd when you do), makes complexes deeply imbalanced. And of course the speed at which npc frigates/tackle retarget and volley down your drones is super-human in reaction time.

All of Eve has been balanced around your primary ship doing ideal and prompt DPS to ships of similar size, whilst relying on drones to deal with smaller hulls which your weapons systems are not designed to hit (or cannot hit) These changes were not thought-through before implementing.
amurder Hakomairos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-11 01:27:50 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Some of the plexes probably are imbalanced with the AI changes...



No, all of the places are imbalanced with the AI changes. With the new AI the number of NPCs in 7/10-10/10 plexes needs to be cut by at least 50%. Either that or the rewards need to significantly to account for the fact that you now need 2 logi and 2 tank/dps boats to do what you used to be able to dual box with 1 tank/dps and 1 logi. Splitting 80M for OPE four ways = plexes no longer worth running.

Also, CCP was told this change was game breaking and chose to ignore and deploy anyway
DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#30 - 2012-12-11 01:34:47 UTC
All I read was "IT SUCKS THAT NOW NPCS DON'T JUST STUPIDLY ATTACK ONE OVERTANKED TARGET.
CCP Y U NERF MY TACKTICS!!??"
Ahn Tee Mahtur
#31 - 2012-12-11 02:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahn Tee Mahtur
Amanda Haley wrote:
As a fellow explorer I feel for you man. I would simply unsub and get it over with. Don't want to throw insults, but CCP has big company problems where changes are driven by people who has little clue about the game, or base on too little research.

Also lol at everyone saluting the change and suggesting "adapt". Bunch of masochists and elite kids club, nothing more. As a working person my self, I don't need such tedious game. As I pay for my subs with real cash, all i need is to grind for pvp, but if that will cause more pain than fun (grind ass off for mere t2 BS fit) I will simply walk away. Tbh this is worse change than the monocle for real money. Difference is not everyone are affected to same degree, hence missile/lazor boats and guys with 5 alts have it easier.




It's funny cause you're right. All the kids that are like "derp adapt derp i like CCP's c0ck" . They don't run level 4 missions, never ran missions post retribution, and never will run L4's. They're laughing at people who are struggling with missions. Let's put it this way, CCP implement new AI so that they can target new targets and switch targets. They NEVER stated that there would be EW frigs/cruisers and full room aggro however it is stated thats a bug. But I'm pretty fuucking sure they never said EW frigs.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-12-11 02:30:39 UTC
White Sorceress wrote:
I like to shoot and I don't like to do market stuff. My accounts cost 1.2b every month that i need to pay to keep my accounts alive. It was already on the border now, spending most of my free time in weekends running damn complexes so survive another month. But now it's over. I don't see any way how to make ISK anymore!

I will wait one month if CCP realizes they totally ****** it up. After that I don't see any other way than letting my accounts expire and wait what happens.

Very bad job CCP, you really need someone who understands this game from inside ! Thumbs down !


Perhaps you should consider an alternative way to fund your Eve account. L5s come to mind . . .

Just selling Ammo to buy orders in jita will get you 1K/LP

That means you need to run about 10-11 L5s to cover your month subscription of 2 accounts.

That should take you about 3 hours/month.


-FM
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#33 - 2012-12-11 04:09:21 UTC
Removed a personal attack. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-12-11 04:28:09 UTC
And there I thought that high-level PvE content (being effectively EvE dungeons) was supposed to be done in gangs with logis. Then people still found a way to do stuff solo(-ish) nevertheless so CCP had to nerf drops, change AI etc...

Hoist by own petard much?

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#35 - 2012-12-11 05:28:05 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
And there I thought that high-level PvE content (being effectively EvE dungeons) was supposed to be done in gangs with logis. Then people still found a way to do stuff solo(-ish) nevertheless so CCP had to nerf drops, change AI etc...

Hoist by own petard much?


If they want them (high end plexes) done by gangs (like incursions and wormholes) then that's fine, but there shoud then be assured rewards (like encursions and wormholes) instead of chance based drops where you could get little or nothing, else those complexes are not worth doing.

However that is moot, the fact is, some of the high end plexes are so much trouble even a gang would have trouple and potentially take a loss. I (again) would welcome all these smug know-t-all incursion and wormhole people into content with advanced Ai AND 50-60 or more things shooting/ewaring you at once. Why it is still hard for such people to understand that the problem is not with the change per say but with the fact that it was layed over content not fit for it is totally beyond me.

I would welcome high end complexes that require a group effort (like an incursion HQ) if CCP did it right, what I don't welcome is 3 incursion HQs worth of rats shooting at me and my gang all at once and switching targets all over the place, because that's what is happening. if CCP had re-done the high end complexes FIRST then made new AI, I wouldn't be a part of this discussion at all, i'd be to busy recruiting corp mates to go do the 10/10 I just scanned down.

As it is right now the Blood Raider Naval Shipyard I found tonight is just going to sit there unless some else is brave (stupid) enough to try it (i've lost enough logis and 1 loki and my plex buddies have lost an RR Domi each), becuase i refuse to invite folks into a plex where they will lose ships I have to pay for.
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
#36 - 2012-12-11 09:02:11 UTC
Never tried to do any blood plexes, but i dont see why you complain about angel plexes - these are most easily tanked and most profitable of all pirate species. Also there are several ways to do them (said vargur setup and classic dd+ab logi).

Last one could even do sansha ones, with exception of 8/10, where you probably will need mjd on battleship to pull distance buy time and get rid of tacklers, since using smart may be too late and these aggroed on logi will be deadly.

The problem is friggin tracking disruptors, which NEVER fall off, even BS ones. Though it is aknowledged as bug (i think) and will be hopefully fixed soon
Amarra Mandalin
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-12-11 10:37:12 UTC
I think the options are to join Test and PvE there or quit losing PvP ships. These are mutually exclusive options. I am quite depressed now.
Clith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-12-11 12:34:50 UTC
White Sorceress wrote:


CCP you really should employ someone like me who can test your new changes before you destroy the most important thing and that's income for most people (making ISK by shooting NPC).


Because its not like there is a public test server or anything where you could have helped test and report your findings...

Also, I thought TDT were a wormhole corp that supplied -A- with cheap T3s. You should be used to switching agro.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#39 - 2012-12-11 12:45:44 UTC
Why am I not surprised that a member of AAA is so bad they can't even PVE

I had no idea changing npc AI to switch targets would cause so many delicious tears. I guess I'm just used to it because of wormholes
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#40 - 2012-12-11 17:31:01 UTC
Couple of troll posts removed and I editted the post topic to make it less shouty.

To everyone, you don't need to be rude to disagree with someone's opinion; please be constructive when you post here.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]