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The "vocal minority"
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Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-10-22 14:04:20 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart?


Because they are civilised people who respect others opinions and choices? Lol
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#22 - 2011-10-22 14:04:36 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.

Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.




All so called incarna supporters were/are obvious trolls.

A person so thick starting to play a spaceship game to play dressup dolls would be too mentally challenged to turn a computer on.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-10-22 14:26:54 UTC
there is one simple way to find out how many want WiS or FiS

WiS or FiS survey

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#24 - 2011-10-22 14:29:45 UTC
Caulk H0lster wrote:
m8, WiS is not the answer to get new people to play and stick with the game.

High-sec, low-sec and null are all CONNECTED and part of the same EVE universe. There isn't THAT much of a separation. The difference is the risk/reward ratio. It's fine if there's people that don't want to play EVE and have to deal with higher risk situations, and want to stay in highsec, but there is little desire from many players to risk their ships in lowsec or 0.0, because the incentives are just NOT THERE.

Further, gameplay and balance issues currently make it VERY difficult for younger players to find roles in PvP, especially meaningful roles in 0.0 PvP. It just takes years to get the skill points and flying skills necessary, as well as the ships and wealth necessary, to be successful. The current PvP landscape is challenging for older players to be competitive in if they don't have a supercap, let alone someone just getting started who has little isk, and who can't possibly fly two different fully T2 fit battleships.

IMHO, a huge part of the problem is the missing component of small gang PvP. No, it doesn't really prepare you for the big fleet actions in 0.0, but it gives younger players an outlet where they can learn how to think on their feet (in a spaceship), and frequently the corps who are successful in small gang warfare were more open to younger members, and were led by veterans who could pass on their knowledge. This component of PvP is now almost completely missing in EVE, because it's not particularly viable anymore. You can still get small gang fights in wormholes, or in lowsec, or faction war, but the problems still remain that many of the ships that made small gang warfare viable have been or are slated to be nerfed to the point where small gang PvPs risk generally outweighs the reward on the risk/reward thing, since it's so easy to get caught by a blob now, especially in 0.0.


Let's hope CCP does something for Summer 2012 in that area then.. shall we?

If CCP hadn't completely dropped the ball on FiS during the last 18+ months this debacle would have never happened, but they did.. Hilmar admits it and promises to do better in future.
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#25 - 2011-10-22 15:00:21 UTC
Buttes
Lorimer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-22 15:38:47 UTC
I think we are missing an important point - namely the lack of high quality footwear in the Nex store
With the current "lockstep" offering within the price range of the peons I suggest swift action to remedy this travesty
We have been waiting for a Blaster fix for a couple of years anyway :p
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#27 - 2011-10-22 16:08:03 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.

Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.

Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.

Discuss.

So if I wanted to see Incarna in it's full implementation like what was shown with Ambulation, yet I cancelled my sub over monoclegate and wanting more FiS features, where do I fit in your neat little black and white view?

I think if everyone who had an 'interest' in Incarna left the game as you say, New Eden may be a very lonely place. There are plenty of people who want both, but when push comes to shove will side with FiS over WiS.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Alara IonStorm
#28 - 2011-10-22 16:23:28 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers:
20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers
10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers
70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers

I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.

EVE is not split into two distinct groups.

Absolutely it is.

Decisions are made by those who show up. If the third group will continue to play no matter what.

Then honestly why should CCP give a F@#%.

So everything like Hybrid Changes and New Ships over a New Chat Room with Aurum Bar gets done by the first 2 that matter.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-10-22 16:28:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.

Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.

Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.

Discuss.


lol works the same way with the CSM an damn near anything thats gets revealed about the upcoming expansions. Theyre all over each other patting themselves on the back that it was all their ideas

I side with FiS cause for one there never should have been a term FiS cause Fis IS EVE as far as Im concerned. WiS is a side game I never intended on using.

Second, the thing thats always been a trademark to EVE is the internet spaceships pew pew not Avatars in a station. Everyone else has avatars. Let EVE be unique

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Khira Kitamatsu
#30 - 2011-10-22 16:41:08 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.

Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.

Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.

Discuss.


How much to I want WiS? I cancelled my accounts when I heard they put it on the back burner in favor of ship spinning, and working on null-sec. I spoke with my clutch.

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#31 - 2011-10-22 16:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Alara IonStorm wrote:


Decisions are made by those who show up. If the third group will continue to play no matter what.



Decisions are made by certain people at CCP who's job it is to make them.

You forum nerds keep thinking you have some say in what CCP does or doesn't do. Does common sense go out the window when you sign up for internet forums?

You think because all fifty of you (and the 150 posting alts) once in a while happen to say something and CCP implements it that it's because of you? Think about the thousands of whines that have changed nothing.

Get over yourselves.

Mr Epeen Cool
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-10-22 16:56:00 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.

Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.

Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.

Discuss.


How much to I want WiS? I cancelled my accounts when I heard they put it on the back burner in favor of ship spinning, and working on null-sec. I spoke with my clutch.


lol how long before they reverse this decision and cut another 20%

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Blastier
#33 - 2011-10-22 17:01:46 UTC
The people who left were also a lot of vocal WiS'ers who were unhappy with the NeX store, the implementation and bastardization of the original concept. Think Mothermoon...

It wasn't all FiS people who quit, though I know it makes them feel even more hip to think that, just like it was 'cool' to bash Incarna then it turned into bashing WiS as a concept which many of them didn't even understand. Most of them didn't know what establishments were.
Lushan Galindo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-10-22 17:09:19 UTC
It seemed like that before Incarna, the forums were clamoring for WiS and ambulation. After the poorly executed roll out, people threw tantrums. Look , CCP made two mistakes: 1. releasing the nex store with grossly overpriced vanity items in true Isk cost, and making the CQ mandatory, (and then trolling all the low end graphics users with the 'door'). We got ship spinning back, and it looks like the nex store is near meaningless unless you like to play dress up.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-10-22 18:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Tanya Powers wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart?


Because they are civilised people who respect others opinions and choices? Lol


AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Blastier wrote:
The people who left were also a lot of vocal WiS'ers who were unhappy with the NeX store, the implementation and bastardization of the original concept. Think Mothermoon...

It wasn't all FiS people who quit, though I know it makes them feel even more hip to think that, just like it was 'cool' to bash Incarna then it turned into bashing WiS as a concept which many of them didn't even understand. Most of them didn't know what establishments were.


Yeah cause it POSSIBLY be cause the idea it stupid in a game designed around internet spaceships to have a walking in stations side game that wouldnt be used for the actual PLAYING (IE space combat) portion of the game.

The ppl HAD to just not have any idea what they were talking about amirite?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2011-10-22 18:13:03 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.

I ask you the following question:

If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.

Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.

Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.

Discuss.


You understand that Pilots <> Subs right? That the most vocal and upset people are likely the hardcore players with 3,5, maybe 10 or more accounts. If they vote with their wallet the effect is vastly magnified un-subs.
What CCP doesn't get is they need to stop random kneejerk responses (Ship spinning?) and get back to the GAME!

WIS should have been part of this game years ago, but they continue to fail with it.
FW should have never been pushed into the sorry state it's in, but they ignored it. 0.0 is a mess that may never be resolved, due to the moon isk faucet and the absurd sov system.
Many people don't go beyond their own little pocket other than to fly to a hub and buy stuff. The game lacks excitement because it's too static.

A universe should be in a state of constant flux, up to and including gates shifting, stations orbiting moons, belts orbiting, rats anywhere, anytime.
This would of course require a better autopilot, so that you could come into a system and scan so that your autopilot can figure out the route. Incidently it would also make botting a bit harder as well.

Stop nerfing, buff instead, make the universe a dynamic place. One that requires more attention than an autopilot and a macro....

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Alara IonStorm
#37 - 2011-10-22 18:15:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

Decisions are made by certain people at CCP who's job it is to make them.

Taking advice from the community.
Mr Epeen wrote:

You forum nerds keep thinking you have some say in what CCP does or doesn't do. Does common sense go out the window when you sign up for internet forums?

Should have said off the Balcony so I could point out I don't have one because I have Hanger View on. Now if you will excuse me I will go place Medium Hybrid Turret V in the cue.
Mr Epeen wrote:

You think because all fifty of you (and the 150 posting alts) once in a while happen to say something and CCP implements it that it's because of you? Think about the thousands of whines that have changed nothing.

A small group of dedicated individuals can change things. It is the only thing that ever has. I have no Alts but I do have everything on my Wish list for the game coming this winter.
Mr Epeen wrote:

Get over yourselves.

Nice Corp Name.

I am gonna go back to my hanger now. Enjoy your establishments Forum nerd.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-10-22 18:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
so far of the 15 ppl that voted here is the result


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/lifelongnoob/evesurvey.png

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Euasked
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-10-22 18:55:27 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:


Decisions are made by those who show up. If the third group will continue to play no matter what.



Decisions are made by certain people at CCP who's job it is to make them.

You forum nerds keep thinking you have some say in what CCP does or doesn't do. Does common sense go out the window when you sign up for internet forums?

You think because all fifty of you (and the 150 posting alts) once in a while happen to say something and CCP implements it that it's because of you? Think about the thousands of whines that have changed nothing.

Get over yourselves.

Mr Epeen Cool


Angry hypocrite still dosnt get it does he?
Jon Martial
Disciples of Aphrodite
#40 - 2011-10-22 19:37:04 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers:
20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers
10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers
70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers

I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.

EVE is not split into two distinct groups.


Word.
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