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Crime & Punishment

 
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Why didn't I get killrights on this pilot?
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MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-10 16:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: MetaMorpheus Jones
Attacked at a gate in Seyllin, 0.4 System. Dirving an Iteron III. Lost the ship:

Iteron III Loss

. . . then lost the pod:

Pod Loss

I got no kill rights on this guy. I did not agress him (obviously - I'm in a cargo ship and he's driving a Phobos). I did return fire during the engagement . . .


Is there something I'm missing here? I mean, Shouldn't I have gotten kill rights on him? I am not sure with the new system, so I thought I'd ask before petitioning or whatever . . .

Thank you.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#2 - 2012-12-10 16:40:20 UTC
In the least, you should have one for the pod kill... However, it depends on your actions also. Had to you recently looted a cargo container or committed any act that would have given you a suspect timer?
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-10 16:45:58 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
In the least, you should have one for the pod kill... However, it depends on your actions also. Had to you recently looted a cargo container or committed any act that would have given you a suspect timer?



Until I was attacked, I had made no aggessive or illegal moves. My safety settings were on green, and in fact had to change them to red during the fight just to activate my ECM against him (for all the good it did, lol). Again, this was after I was initially attacked.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#4 - 2012-12-10 16:51:26 UTC
Strange, You Should Partition this. (I know I can't spell)

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#5 - 2012-12-10 17:19:16 UTC
MetaMorpheus Jones wrote:
Attacked at a gate in Seyllin, 0.4 System. Dirving an Iteron III. Lost the ship:

Iteron III Loss

. . . then lost the pod:

Pod Loss

I got no kill rights on this guy. I did not agress him (obviously - I'm in a cargo ship and he's driving a Phobos). I did return fire during the engagement . . .


Is there something I'm missing here? I mean, Shouldn't I have gotten kill rights on him? I am not sure with the new system, so I thought I'd ask before petitioning or whatever . . .

Thank you.



Returning fire means no killrights, has been the same for years.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Ruvin
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-12-10 17:20:27 UTC
if you couldnt atack him with green setting that usually means you shouldnt .
If you switched red then you made something illegal .


Maybe you werent atacked but only target locked and scanned ? And then you initiated the "atack" which allowed him to kill you without any punishment .

I mean i can kill ppl which i am allowed with green settings ... so its you who did something wrong :/


Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-12-10 17:29:59 UTC
DUDE...(what do you want with a killright on a -10.0 player)...DUDE

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-10 17:38:09 UTC
Ruvin wrote:
if you couldnt atack him with green setting that usually means you shouldnt .
If you switched red then you made something illegal .


Maybe you werent atacked but only target locked and scanned ? And then you initiated the "atack" which allowed him to kill you without any punishment .

I mean i can kill ppl which i am allowed with green settings ... so its you who did something wrong :/




I convo'd the pilot after the engagement and asked if I had inadvertently aggressed him first . . . he said no, He had scrambled and fired on me first.

What I did not get is why I still had to change my safety settings to retuern fire on him. Once he fired on me there should have been no question as to whether I was attempting an illegal act in returning fire.

and I did return fire with the Iteron, but obviously not with the Capsule.

Quote:
DUDE...(what do you want with a killright on a -10.0 player)...DUDE


It is less about this particular player or fight, and more to do with whether the game mechanics are working as they are supposed to work.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#9 - 2012-12-10 18:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimo Khan
A kill right only comes if you did not do any aggression whatsoever. As soon as you tried ECM, you are flagged as temporary PVP, so long as that flag is going you cannot get kill rights for the person that flag is set towards.
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#10 - 2012-12-10 18:20:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimo Khan
Second note: I have had people flagged against me and tried to shoot back. Initially it said doing so would invoke a global criminal flag. I had to wait 3-4 seconds and try again. The second time I did not get that warning and could shoot all I wanted.

Note: Even if I am allowed, shooting back, ECM, or any type aggression flags me for no kill mail to that person.
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-10 19:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: MetaMorpheus Jones
According to the EVElopedia:

Quote:
The Kill Rights system allows you to get revenge on another player who has performed a criminal act upon you. This means shooting or otherwise aggressing your ship or pod in high security space, or shooting or otherwise aggressing your pod in low security space. Kill rights are not generated in nul security space.


EVElopedia - Kill RIghts

It doesn't matter who agressed who, or what security flags, if any, I might have had. Agression to a pod in low-sec is cause enough for kill rights.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#12 - 2012-12-10 19:06:46 UTC
Old Wiki info
Quote:

Please note: Responding to an illegal kill attempt against your ship with any kind of force will void any kill rights you would have received otherwise.


The new wiki does not keep the old information about how to void a killright. I suspect the old voiding of kill right is still in effect.
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-10 19:27:03 UTC
Kimo Khan wrote:
Old Wiki info
Quote:

Please note: Responding to an illegal kill attempt against your ship with any kind of force will void any kill rights you would have received otherwise.


The new wiki does not keep the old information about how to void a killright. I suspect the old voiding of kill right is still in effect.


Right, so I don't get kill rights for the loss of the ship, but I should get k-rights for the aggression against my pod, as I am incapable of respoding with "any kind of force" in a pod.

Am I parsing this too finely?

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
Kimo Khan
Rage Against All Reds
GunFam
#14 - 2012-12-10 19:34:41 UTC
That is what it says, but in practice from the old system not so. Because you aggressed with saftey off I suspect you got flagged for temporary PVP and that flag carried over to your pod.

With that being said, the pod kill should have produced a kill mail as the flag should not carry over to a pod. But it looks like flags carry over regardless of what ship you are in. Many have been podded in high sec for being suspect flagged.

Best idea would be to get GM/DEV clarification. Your ship should not have generated a kill right due to ECM use, but your pod according to new kill rights should have generated a kill right.
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-12-10 19:35:52 UTC
I went ahead with a petition, for clarification if nothing else.

Thank you all for your input.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
Sauralus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-10 20:53:51 UTC
PVP flags carry over to your pod.

Sauralus
Caterpil
Amanina Avada Corporation
#17 - 2012-12-10 22:24:22 UTC
You've not just got ECM on that Iteron, you've got an ECM burst ('Cetus' ECM shockwave I):

The ECM burst hits EVERYTHING in its area of effect. In order to activate it you would have needed to drop your safety setting.
Said module has a radius of 6km and a falloff of 6km. Assuming that the optimal/falloff mechanics work the same way as guns that means that everything within 18km of you (optimal + 2x falloff) would have taken a hit.

*I'm probably completely wrong and it may just hit everything within 6km

If this includes gates, sentry guns, abandoned drones, custom offices etc. you would have gotten a suspect flag and thus not be eligible for killrights once he had killed your pod. Check your security status: did it drop recently- if so you probably hit an inappropriate target with your ECM burst.
MetaMorpheus Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-12-10 22:45:19 UTC
Caterpil wrote:
You've not just got ECM on that Iteron, you've got an ECM burst ('Cetus' ECM shockwave I):

The ECM burst hits EVERYTHING in its area of effect. In order to activate it you would have needed to drop your safety setting.
Said module has a radius of 6km and a falloff of 6km. Assuming that the optimal/falloff mechanics work the same way as guns that means that everything within 18km of you (optimal + 2x falloff) would have taken a hit.

*I'm probably completely wrong and it may just hit everything within 6km

If this includes gates, sentry guns, abandoned drones, custom offices etc. you would have gotten a suspect flag and thus not be eligible for killrights once he had killed your pod. Check your security status: did it drop recently- if so you probably hit an inappropriate target with your ECM burst.



Bingo!

Now that I look again at the loadout and remember the engagement, (and, until you said so, I had forgotten the nature of the ECM Burst) this is the most likely reason for the lack of killmail. Thanks for the input.

That monocle looks ridiculous. 
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2012-12-11 00:17:32 UTC
So using ecm burst is an excellent way to nuke your sec status?
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#20 - 2012-12-11 06:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: SB Rico
I once queried this after being podkilled on a "clean" alt in high sec, I was informed that podkilling in itself does not generate a killright. Equally as soon as you used your ECM/burst everything became "consentual" as such no kill right will be generated for ship or pod.

The moral, if you want to get kill rights on those nasty folk who kill you - Don't agress back in any way.

On a side note... Why do people keep making killrights on me available for fees ranging from 10k - 5mil? I am red and flashy no kill rights needed to shoot me. If you have purchased one of these killrights demand your money back at once.

Edit: Oh and yeah using burst/smartbombs in high sec is a great way to find out how tough concord are.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
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