These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Out of Pod Experience

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Your thoughts on the legalisation of cannabis in the UK

First post
Author
Milla Lekarariba
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#21 - 2011-10-22 16:11:47 UTC
Cannabis and tobacco should ideally be both illegal due to the health issues they cause.. however...

I am for the the legalization of cannabis, for mostly one reason, they government is scrapped for cash big time, and adding a good tax revenue by making cannabis have high tax like tobacco, it may make the difference for so many people to keep their jobs, and save public services...

However, I stress this is most important IF they do legal the stuff, create similar helplines for people to quit, and proper support for those that are struggling with their habit, also what is required is a stronger police commitment on Cannabis, sure it can be legal, but you cannot grow your own to sell. Supply needs to be restricted perhaps via license....


while I am over all for it, I can currently see many reasons against it, so kind of sitting on the fence, because the question is not so much should they legalize it, but what they do if it is legalized
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-10-22 16:43:06 UTC
Milla Lekarariba wrote:
Cannabis and tobacco should ideally be both illegal due to the health issues they cause.. however...

I am for the the legalization of cannabis, for mostly one reason, they government is scrapped for cash big time, and adding a good tax revenue by making cannabis have high tax like tobacco, it may make the difference for so many people to keep their jobs, and save public services...

However, I stress this is most important IF they do legal the stuff, create similar helplines for people to quit, and proper support for those that are struggling with their habit, also what is required is a stronger police commitment on Cannabis, sure it can be legal, but you cannot grow your own to sell. Supply needs to be restricted perhaps via license....


while I am over all for it, I can currently see many reasons against it, so kind of sitting on the fence, because the question is not so much should they legalize it, but what they do if it is legalized


Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#23 - 2011-10-22 16:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You lucky bastards.


You don't have a narco-terrorist shadow government running your country. If we legalize pot here, the bastards stand to lose a lot of money.

I refer to the USA.


You really think that it is monetary gain for the US to have a 'war on drugs'? It may be a gain for some peoples wallets, but it comes out as a loss for the tax payers.


Slade
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#24 - 2011-10-22 16:54:15 UTC
Milla Lekarariba wrote:
Cannabis and tobacco should ideally be both illegal due to the health issues they cause.


Shocked

Yet another who thinks that only 'bad' things kill people.

Also, you forgot alcohol, but let me guess you are responsible and can handle your alcehole Roll

Please take a look at the rate of death associated to over eating and lack of locomotion.

/facepalm


Slade

Adunh Slavy
#25 - 2011-10-22 18:06:31 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You lucky bastards.


You don't have a narco-terrorist shadow government running your country. If we legalize pot here, the bastards stand to lose a lot of money.

I refer to the USA.


You really think that it is monetary gain for the US to have a 'war on drugs'? It may be a gain for some peoples wallets, but it comes out as a loss for the tax payers.


Slade



It's a huge money maker for some in the government and many of the banks. Recently a number of the banks were found to be laundering huge sums for the drug cartels. Imagine you could make money no matter which team wins a game. Would you care who wins? Now imagine that instead of making money on the win or loss, you make money with each point scored, by either team, it's in your best interest to never have anyone win and just keep the game going as long as possible.

These same banks that have been caught laundering, also finance the governments of these countries and finance of course the deficit spending developed countries that make the drugs illegal. Playing both sides, not a bad business.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#26 - 2011-10-22 18:12:56 UTC
adopt wrote:


Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight


Overlooking, neatly, the horrendous permanent mental health issues such as psychosis that the recent strains of this stuff induce.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-10-22 18:24:15 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
adopt wrote:


Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight


Overlooking, neatly, the horrendous permanent mental health issues such as psychosis that the recent strains of this stuff induce.


You ineptitude to read is rather lulsy.

Quote:
industrial strength sessions everynight


If you do that, then yes, you will develop mental issues, if you are a casual user, you are much less likely to.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-10-22 18:39:57 UTC
adopt wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
adopt wrote:


Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight


Overlooking, neatly, the horrendous permanent mental health issues such as psychosis that the recent strains of this stuff induce.


You ineptitude to read is rather lulsy.

Quote:
industrial strength sessions everynight


If you do that, then yes, you will develop mental issues, if you are a casual user, you are much less likely to.


Still, the link to mental health issues needs to be fully explored before it can be made legal.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#29 - 2011-10-22 18:45:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Myfanwy Heimdal
adopt wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
[quote=adopt]

Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight


Overlooking, neatly, the horrendous permanent mental health issues such as psychosis that the recent strains of this stuff induce.


You ineptitude to read is rather lulsy.

Actually, no. There is an 'and' in the above sentence that I quoted. Not an 'or'.

I can read extremely well, thank you, and I don't need to use made up words to try to deprecate other people's comments.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-10-22 18:48:15 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
adopt wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
[quote=adopt]

Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight


Overlooking, neatly, the horrendous permanent mental health issues such as psychosis that the recent strains of this stuff induce.


You ineptitude to read is rather lulsy.

Actually, no. There is an 'and' in the above sentence that I quoted. Not an 'or'.

I can read extremely well, thank you, and I don't need to use made up words to try to deprecate other people's comments.


I'm pretty blazed right now, your point is invalid, until you prove to me that cannabis is harmful, you talking out your arse
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#31 - 2011-10-22 19:06:15 UTC
adopt wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
adopt wrote:
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
[quote=adopt]

Cannabis only causes health issue if smoked with tobacco, and if you have industrial strength sessions everynight


Overlooking, neatly, the horrendous permanent mental health issues such as psychosis that the recent strains of this stuff induce.


You ineptitude to read is rather lulsy.

Actually, no. There is an 'and' in the above sentence that I quoted. Not an 'or'.

I can read extremely well, thank you, and I don't need to use made up words to try to deprecate other people's comments.


I'm pretty blazed right now, your point is invalid, until you prove to me that cannabis is harmful, you talking out your arse



I note that you have changed your viewpoint from "the new stuff is harmful if smoked in quantity and with tobacco" to "I am going to need proof before I accept that this new stuff is harmful". Changing position doesn't look good half way through an argument but, that's by the by.

I suggest you speak to some mental health practitioners and have a serious talk with them. Me? Oh, I married one and they certainly know what they are talking about and, besides, I have also seen the damage that it causes to people's mental faculties first hand.

Then again, what do I know? You're blazed, apparently, and I am lulsy so that seems to make what drivel you write as correct. If anything, it may just provide the proof that you've been looking for/

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#32 - 2011-10-22 19:48:20 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
You lucky bastards.


You don't have a narco-terrorist shadow government running your country. If we legalize pot here, the bastards stand to lose a lot of money.

I refer to the USA.


You really think that it is monetary gain for the US to have a 'war on drugs'? It may be a gain for some peoples wallets, but it comes out as a loss for the tax payers.


Slade



Yes, that's the idea.

The people are not gaining from any drug war. They are losing.

The US government is the biggest trafficker of narcotics.

Then, if you use their product and are caught with it, you go into its prison system where your are used as a statistic for more budget towards a bigger prison system.

The corruption is so deep, it seems like only the end of the nation is going to get rid of it: trash it all and start all over again.

Yet since the typical Dancing with the Stars - watching flouride head can't think their way out of a wet paper bag with an open end, the subject is politicized. If you want to see the end of the WOD, then "you must be some kind of hippie or something".

Here's something you can try. Become an activist about police abuse and maybe you can get harassed a little. But go after the corruption and they will find a way to make you dead very fast.

Does not anyone notice how they use SWAT team raids on pot growers and traffickers with such planning and precision that they seldom kill anybody, yet if it's not about drugs, they end up burning down the house or shooting someone. All that snacktical tactical raid stuff is a courtesy to the drug operation: they want the dope, and they want the leads.

Meanwhile you can get busted with hundreds of pot plants, and if you don't have any guns on you, you are out in a week. Where did the dope go?

A former landlord of mine was a grower back in his youth. His buyer was a district attorney in another city that he still won't name to this day. THAT dealer is the sort who never gets busted. Anyone else not on the take will get busted. It's not about stopping drug dealers, it's about drug dealers (who are the government) stopping the competition to their business.

All of this is NO different from what happened to the police and government during the years of Alcohol Prohibition.

Meanwhile, the police worship is so bad that when a cop on a cop salary has an RV, a big house, a speed boat, motorcycles, a huge expensive SUV, nobody wonders where all that money comes from.

As soon as everybody realizes that the government is trafficking and dealing in narcotics, monopolizing it and profiting from the price increase created by drugs being illegal, the sooner people will stop living in fairy land thinking that government cares for us and the war on drugs is going to stop people from doing it.

I usually use the war on drugs as an intelligence test for people I meet. If they know what a scam it is, there is hope. Otherwise, have a nice day and don't forget your flu shot.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!

TC wabbajack
SnM pain distribution network
#33 - 2011-10-22 20:00:14 UTC
I'd rather the UK government concentrated on getting the record levels of unemployed youths back to work than pander to a bunch of spolt brats who think their own teenage rebelion should now be easier to get a hold of now that they are past the "mad at their dad" stage



having worked in the pharma industry I could go on about how no substance that affects your mental or physiological state is truely harmless,but i'd only encourge people to blurt out the propanda that their neighbours sisters cousins cat read somwhere that it's like totally risk free or the truth that alchol/ ciggies are more harmful but that would only serve to prove that drugs bores are indeed boring


baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2011-10-22 20:49:01 UTC
adopt wrote:


I'm pretty blazed right now, your point is invalid, until you prove to me that cannabis is harmful, you talking out your arse


cannabis + car = destroyed lives.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-10-22 21:17:29 UTC
adopt wrote:
I'm pretty blazed right now, your point is invalid, until you prove to me that cannabis is harmful, you talking out your arse


The Royal college of psychiatrists opinion on cannabis and schizophrenia:-

Quote:
Schizophrenia

Three major studies followed large numbers of people over several years, and showed that those people who use cannabis have a higher than average risk of developing schizophrenia. If you start smoking it before the age of 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic disorder by the time you are 26. They found no evidence of self-medication. It seemed that, the more cannabis someone used, the more likely they were to develop symptoms.



Why should teenagers be particularly vulnerable to the use of cannabis? No one knows for certain, but it may be something to do with brain development. The brain is still developing in the teenage years – up to the age of around 20, in fact. A massive process of ‘neural pruning’ is going on. This is rather like streamlining a tangled jumble of circuits so they can work more effectively. Any experience, or substance, that affects this process has the potential to produce long-term psychological effects.



Recent research in Europe, and in the UK, has suggested that people who have a family background of mental illness – and so probably have a genetic vulnerability anyway - are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they use cannabis as well.

[url]http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabis.aspx[/url]


Here's a medical paper by a consultant psychiatrist concerning acute and chronic cannabis psychosis:-

Quote:
The drug induced psychosis seen when Cannabis is the main substance being abused is distinct phenomenologically from other psychosis.

It is unusual for such a psychosis to occur without other drugs being involved to some extent and so it is difficult to tease out the differences between the effects of Cannabis and other drugs.

However it is misleading and dangerous, to our youth in particular, to label Cannabis as “soft”. In fact the serious adverse effects of Cannabis have been known for some time now and Hall and Solowij in the British Journal of Psychiatry sounded warnings in 1997 about such issues as dependence on Cannabis, adolescent developmental problems, permanent cognitive impairment as well as involvement in and the development of psychosis.

[url]http://priory.com/psych/cannabis.htm[/url]


An article published by the mental health charity Mind:-

Quote:
Results of a Swedish study suggest that cannabis increases the risk of schizophrenia by 30 per cent. However, this does not appear to be reflected in the figures for schizophrenia in the population in general, which have remained constant over a long period. This study also concludes that cannabis has few harmful effects overall, but that there is a potentially serious risk to the mental health of people who use cannabis, particularly in the presence of other risk factors for schizophrenia.

[url]http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/cannabis_and_mental_health[/url]


The mountain of evidence is growing all the time as more and more studies are completed, sure its not as simple as "smoke weed and become a schizophrenic" but young adults being 30% more at risk of developing a severe mental illness when they otherwise might not have developed it cant be ignored.

In summery the "proof" that cannabis is not harmful is going up in smoke (lol) while the "proof" that it can cause mental illness is growing (lol x2).
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#36 - 2011-10-22 21:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Louis deGuerre
What a load of bullshit.

I can prove everything with statistics, 87.3 % are totally nonsense.

"Recent research in Europe, and in the UK, has suggested that people who have a family background of mental illness – and so probably have a genetic vulnerability anyway - are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they use cannabis as well."

Recent research done by me has turned out that people who have a family background of mental illness – and so probably have a genetic vulnerability anyway - are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they drink water once a day."

Alcohol is so much more dangerous yet it is not illegal, either make that illegal or stop the bizarre razzia against weed. If you want to get stoned in the privacy of your own home go for it.

It's a drug and it will make you feel good and abuse of any drug will eventually **** you up.

This whole charade where half the population is demonised for having smoked some weed once in their lives is just surreal.
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-10-22 22:19:47 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
What a load of bullshit.

I can prove everything with statistics, 87.3 % are totally nonsense.

"Recent research in Europe, and in the UK, has suggested that people who have a family background of mental illness – and so probably have a genetic vulnerability anyway - are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they use cannabis as well."

Recent research done by me has turned out that people who have a family background of mental illness – and so probably have a genetic vulnerability anyway - are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they drink water once a day."

Alcohol is so much more dangerous yet it is not illegal, either make that illegal or stop the bizarre razzia against weed. If you want to get stoned in the privacy of your own home go for it.

It's a drug and it will make you feel good and abuse of any drug will eventually **** you up.

This whole charade where half the population is demonised for having smoked some weed once in their lives is just surreal.


No offense but the opinion of expert psychiatrists>your opinion, they are not just statistics they are the results of studies. Those links are just snippets, there are other issues besides schizophrenia like drug psychosis, drug psychosis is when somebody with otherwise sound mental health suffers a catalogue of the positive schizophrenic symptoms like hearing voices, paranoia and so on. Drug psychosis can destroy lives, result in violent outbursts or cause people to commit crimes, it is not pleasant.

Regardless you are preaching to the choir, I am not anti drugs at all. I am no stranger to certain amounts of chemical reinforcement, more exotic things than weed as well. But I do not blind myself to the risks of any substance by assuming its safe just because I believe it to be safe, especially when there's heaps of evidence that shows that it may not be. Also my opinion is that the questions need to be answered about the links between cannabis and mental health before any move to legalise or decriminalise it, not because I think it should never be legalised only that future users can educate themselves and be aware of any risks.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-10-22 23:25:22 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
Honestly, if nicotine is legal, then cannabis should be. The law should be consistent. Mind you, I will never touch the stuff, and it is obvious that is in everyone's best interest to stay away from the stuff unless you use it for medicinal purposes.


you sound like your saying yes, but then you kinda say no
you start by standing on a principle and end with giving yourself an out



I am saying that it should be legal, but I am NOT saying that it is necessarily an ethical/moral thing to do.

My belief is that the law does not necessarily (and should not!) dictate what is ethically/morally right or wrong. Case in point, it is in face legal to lie in your everyday life. However most civilized humans were taught by their parents that lying is wrong.

IF I were to hold the opposite belief: that the law should be perfectly in line with what I believe to be ethical or moral, then I would argue that not only should cannabis be illegal - but so too should nicotine and alcohol (both of which I ALSO believe to be unethical to use recreationally).

Other examples: I believe that Nazis and *** rhetoric are unethical, but I do not believe that these people should have their free speech taken away.

Furthermore, there are advantages to legalizing cannabis, such as forcing illegal drug rings to compete with legitimate suppliers - possibly putting an end to drug related crime, cutting off funds for terrorists and all in all making the world a better place. It also allows cannabis to be regulated by the government which could save lives and reduce the amount substance abuse. I would also hope that by making the less harmful recreational drugs legal, people would be more likely to use those instead of the more harmful drugs.
BLACK-STAR
#39 - 2011-10-23 01:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: BLACK-STAR
I think Canada might have it legalized before UK eventually does. America is keeping it illegal, until they reform their federal government.

My friends smoke it all the time for years and they do not suffer mental health issues or think they live parallel realities lol, neither do I. It's a drive or a motivation diminisher, it just depends how responsible you are with it.







Edit:

yeah found this:
Canadian m8s-

2011 Ontario Superior Court
On April 12th, 2011, Justice Donald Taliano found that Canada's Cannabis Medical Access Regulations (MMAR) and "the prohibitions against the possession and production of cannabis contained in sections 4 and 7 respectively of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act" are "constitutionally invalid and of no force and effect" . The government was given 90 days (until July 11th) to fill the void in those sections, or the possession and cultivation of Cannabis would become legal in all of Canada.

The mid-July deadline was extended when federal government lawyer Kevin Wilson successfully argued the need for the current cannabis laws and regulations to stay in place until Ontario’s highest court could hear the appeal, likely in November. In granting the deadline extension, Court of Appeal Justice Robert Blair noted that “The practical effect of the decision if the suspension were permitted to expire on July 14 would be to legalize cannabis production in Ontario, if not across Canada.



Big smile
Adunh Slavy
#40 - 2011-10-23 07:21:07 UTC
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
The Royal college of psychiatrists opinion on cannabis and schizophrenia:-




And is alcohol much better? And to do these studies, did they sequester these teens away from the alcohol they are likely also drinking in larger than safe quantities?

I for one have no doubt that drugs and alcohol can have an effect on the mind, and the brain of people. They are after all chemicals. But a study, done in an unclean test tube isn't science, it's a shot in the dark.

Studies have also concluded that heavy religious indoctrination of children can lead some to problems as well. But others, under the same influences don't have these issues. No one knows why, it just is.

Point is, effect can be blamed on anything so long as cause can not be isolated. These studies do not isolate cause and instead only attempt to classify effects.

3 out of 10 people in this study like left shoes when given red shoes. Red shoes cause some people, 30%, to have an unusual preference for left shoes. Further studies of the study reveal that 3 out of 10 in the study lost their right foot in a car accident.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt