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AI revamp for non WH NPCs
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1 - 2012-12-09 01:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The watered down Sleeper AI seems to be causing some fun and games for non WH residents, it's been a while since I've lived in a WH and wondered if you guys would like to shed some light on what priority Sleepers assign when switching targets? especially in relation to drones. I'm assuming that the new non WH NPC AI follows the same patterns as Sleepers.

From what I remember they'll first test the tank of anything that warps in or is deployed, if they can't break it they'll switch to another target, if a ship has Ewar or Logi they'll switch to that, and finally DPS. Also any hints & tips with regards to Ewar and what they hate most would be appreciated.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#2 - 2012-12-09 03:11:36 UTC
The sleeper AI will attack drones if there are less than 3 ships on the field.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2012-12-09 03:14:37 UTC
Thanks, handy to know.

Do I have the aggro order right? I haven't set foot in a WH for about 18 months and my memory is a bit hazy (I'm blaming middle age Lol)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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LuckyQuarter
Eden Dominion Coalition
Scary Wormhole People
#4 - 2012-12-09 03:19:23 UTC
Sleeper AI isn't really an issue for drones as long as you have other weapons for taking out frigs and sentry towers. Most of the time, you can deploy lights/mediums right after the frigs are gone and they will not be aggro'd. On the other hand, drones are yet another thing that marks one as a target on dscan.

To the extent there are issues with the new ai, it seems that it is mostly the fact that CCP ignored the fact that sleeper combat anoms were designed to have the number of npc's reduced compared to normal missions to account for the higher difficulty - and sleeper anoms always have three waves of modest size so that full 'room' aggro stays manageable. So, when CCP put the new ai on missions with one big wave and multiple groups with large numbers of frigs...well, the expected result happened...with the unprepared losing their drake/myrm/etc.

In any case, those following development were aware over a month ago that drone boats were effectively being nerfed for high sec....there has been more than sufficient time to get out and sell prior hulls to the unaware.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#5 - 2012-12-09 03:33:51 UTC
Lol the amount of tears it's causing is hilarious, if people aren't moaning about drones going pop they're moaning about whole room aggro. They're frightened of losing battleships to level 4 missions I've been cruising through in a Drake since the patch, it's not even a brick Drake, I use the lows for damage mods not SPRs. The only adaptations I've had to make is to only use my drones on frigs as needed and to get a little bit (about 10km) closer to the targets than I used to, so that my heavy missiles can actually hit, while HAMS train up.

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#6 - 2012-12-09 10:52:10 UTC
Also, the sleepers AI changed a bit now, at least for combat sites! Now it includes an FC!

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#7 - 2012-12-09 10:59:35 UTC
To be honest, people just need to adapt a little. As the OP says, you just put the drones out to manage inbound DPS or take out the tackle frigs. If you manage your aggro properly, you should be able to tank every wave easily and DPS down the BS and cruisers swiftly, then clean off frigates with drones before moving onto the next wave. If you need a break from DPS, spit the drones out, and the BS's will likely switch targets, and you suck the drones in. Tank saved.

honestly, this is a feature added to missions, allowing you to wash DPS off.

Yes it is a nerf to AFK Domis, but Ishtars with reps in the highs should be able to comlete missions with sentries quite easily.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2012-12-09 14:48:21 UTC
I've linked this thread in the discussion going on in GD, sorry guys but please prepare yourself for more questions, some tinfoilhattery and people disputing what you say, even if you do have 3+ yrs experience dealing with an AI that hates all the things.

Once again thanks for all the answers, it's nice to know that my brain didn't turn to mush after I hit 40 P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#9 - 2012-12-09 16:12:19 UTC
Asking about sleeper AI in the wormhole funny, CCP refuses to document any changes that occur to wspace all the time to keep the "mystery", so even we don't know.
fe anus
Adolf Ehrnrooth Appreciation Society
#10 - 2012-12-11 11:06:19 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
To be honest, people just need to adapt a little. As the OP says, you just put the drones out to manage inbound DPS or take out the tackle frigs. If you manage your aggro properly, you should be able to tank every wave easily and DPS down the BS and cruisers swiftly, then clean off frigates with drones before moving onto the next wave. If you need a break from DPS, spit the drones out, and the BS's will likely switch targets, and you suck the drones in. Tank saved.

honestly, this is a feature added to missions, allowing you to wash DPS off.

Yes it is a nerf to AFK Domis, but Ishtars with reps in the highs should be able to comlete missions with sentries quite easily.


Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#11 - 2012-12-11 12:18:29 UTC
In home we noticed that sleepers change targets more faster than they did against rr tengu gangs....

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#12 - 2012-12-12 14:30:03 UTC
fe anus wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
To be honest, people just need to adapt a little. As the OP says, you just put the drones out to manage inbound DPS or take out the tackle frigs. If you manage your aggro properly, you should be able to tank every wave easily and DPS down the BS and cruisers swiftly, then clean off frigates with drones before moving onto the next wave. If you need a break from DPS, spit the drones out, and the BS's will likely switch targets, and you suck the drones in. Tank saved.

honestly, this is a feature added to missions, allowing you to wash DPS off.

Yes it is a nerf to AFK Domis, but Ishtars with reps in the highs should be able to comlete missions with sentries quite easily.


Thank you, Captain Obvious.


I wasn't responding to you. I was educating Lieutenant Stupid and Private Dumbass, who make up a huge proportion of the playerbase.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2012-12-12 17:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Using the drones to break aggro has certainly helped with the oh crap whole room aggro bug that they've supposedly just fixed, warp onto the field with 3 separate groups that you used to be to control aggro on and all 3 decide that they're going to engage together, definitely entertaining and challenging, but doable if you ignore all the frigs but the tackle and warp out just before your tank breaks by dropping a couple of disposable t1 drones to break the aggro.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#14 - 2012-12-13 00:19:51 UTC
I wouldn't base your strategy on what order they attack. It's random at best. Doing 6 or more sleeper sites in a row showed that sometimes they will sit on shooting the dreads for nearly the whole duration, next time it might be the triage carrier, next it might be some subcaps that have webs/target painters, or a mix of switching around. It's random.

People just have to pay attention to what's going on now in their missions. What a crying shame.