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Are EAF's ever going to get some love?
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2012-12-08 23:31:38 UTC
The new T1 EWAR frigs have for all intents and purposes put the final nail in the T2 EWAR frigs' collective coffins.
EAF's were never that popular, but now.......CCP has once again shown how NOT to roll out changes.


Comparing a Maulus and Keres fit:
Maulus has a bigger tank 5900 to 4900, does more damage (not that damage is a big deal for the role of these ships) 134-74, faster 3690-3201, and is cap stable while the Keres is not.
The ONLY advantage the Keres has is the additional midslot which allows it to fit a bonused tackle module.

Given that the Maulus is a tiny fraction of the hull cost of the T2 variant, why would anyone fly the T2 variant?

[Keres, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Warp Disruptor II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Medium Shield Extender II

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Inverted Signal Field Projector I
Small Inverted Signal Field Projector I


Hobgoblin II x1

[Maulus, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Overdrive Injector System II
Micro B66 Core Augmentation

Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x4
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#2 - 2012-12-08 23:36:55 UTC
T2 ships have yet to be balanced. most, including EAFs, are terrible ships. I'm sure once Fozzie gets his hands on them they will be better than the T1 variants, but for now that is the case. Personally i'm buying as many cheap and currently bad T2 ships as i can, hoping for them to gain value once balanced
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#3 - 2012-12-08 23:47:30 UTC
Romvex wrote:
T2 ships have yet to be balanced. most, including EAFs, are terrible ships. I'm sure once Fozzie gets his hands on them they will be better than the T1 variants, but for now that is the case. Personally i'm buying as many cheap and currently bad T2 ships as i can, hoping for them to gain value once balanced


Oh, I do understand that the T2 frigs (with the exception of AF's) are getting a change. But why in hell would CCP decide to do all T1 ships across all hull sizes first?

The sane method would be to focus on the T1, faction, and T2 variants all at once for a specific hull size, then move onto the next hull size.
Yes, doing all the vanilla T1 variants at once makes the less SP players happy, but truly annoys the players who have invested tons of SP in a specific hull size.

I look at ships like the EAF's, or the Navy Vexor, and compare them to their T1 variants, and just cry.
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#4 - 2012-12-08 23:51:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Romvex wrote:
T2 ships have yet to be balanced. most, including EAFs, are terrible ships. I'm sure once Fozzie gets his hands on them they will be better than the T1 variants, but for now that is the case. Personally i'm buying as many cheap and currently bad T2 ships as i can, hoping for them to gain value once balanced


Oh, I do understand that the T2 frigs (with the exception of AF's) are getting a change. But why in hell would CCP decide to do all T1 ships across all hull sizes first?

The sane method would be to focus on the T1, faction, and T2 variants all at once for a specific hull size, then move onto the next hull size.
Yes, doing all the vanilla T1 variants at once makes the less SP players happy, but truly annoys the players who have invested tons of SP in a specific hull size.

I look at ships like the EAF's, or the Navy Vexor, and compare them to their T1 variants, and just cry.

I agree i would have balanced the seperate roles first. It may have been simply because so many T1 ships were just so terribad that they had to balance them first.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#5 - 2012-12-09 02:55:33 UTC
Romvex wrote:
T2 ships have yet to be balanced. most, including EAFs, are terrible ships. I'm sure once Fozzie gets his hands on them they will be better than the T1 variants, but for now that is the case. Personally i'm buying as many cheap and currently bad T2 ships as i can, hoping for them to gain value once balanced


What kind of RoI do you expected, in terms of percent per month?

Say you buy a number of T2 frigate hulls for 15M ISK today, and in 14 months you sell them for 30 ISK. That's 100% profit, which sounds great, but you actually had to sit on them for 14 months before they went up in price, so the RoI per month is only a little over 5%.

So that's not a very good investment. Neither is it a bad one. But 5%/month for something that's very, very speculative isn't at all impressive.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-12-09 05:18:06 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Romvex wrote:
T2 ships have yet to be balanced. most, including EAFs, are terrible ships. I'm sure once Fozzie gets his hands on them they will be better than the T1 variants, but for now that is the case. Personally i'm buying as many cheap and currently bad T2 ships as i can, hoping for them to gain value once balanced


Oh, I do understand that the T2 frigs (with the exception of AF's) are getting a change. But why in hell would CCP decide to do all T1 ships across all hull sizes first?
.




It's been explained multiple times, try reading the dev blogs.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#7 - 2012-12-09 05:30:52 UTC
CCP starts doing amazing rebalancing, taking dozens of formerly useless ships and making them viable and continuing to do so at a rate that I've not seen in the ~6 years I've been playing, and still people complain, not because they haven't buffed things enough, but because they haven't buffed enough things.

If EAFs aren't as good as t1 ewar frigs, just use the damn ewar frigs. If you enjoyed flying EAFs before, then you should enjoy flying the new ewar frigs just as much, since it's still a net gain for you, The class of ship you like to fly has been buffed, so, you know, enjoy it. And when CCP comes around to buffing EAFs, enjoy it some more. At no point in this do you actually LOSE anything (t2 BPO owners aside, not that there are EAF BPOs) so why get so mad about it?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#8 - 2012-12-09 08:56:10 UTC
The Maulus/Keres balance is bad because the Maulus got buffed. As little as one whole week ago, the Maulus was a joke ship no one would fly. Now it is not. This is not an attempt to victimise EAF's.

The Vigil/Hyena balance was skew whiff as little as one week ago, due to the Hyena basically sucking for what you got out of it. The Vigil was a good ship one week ago nd hardly got buffed (OK, so it makes Dramiels look less king of the hill due to roflspeed now, but...w/e).

The Sentinel was always hugely more capable than the Crucifier. The Crucifier now, ironically, obsoletes the Arbitrator. The Sentinel still is a miniature Curse, and it maintains a niche role. Could it do with a buff to EHP to around 9K-12K to make it better than a Crucifier? Yes. Is it cactus bad? No.

The Griffin hardly got buff. In fact, due to fiddling around with EWAR itself, it is technically nerfed one poofteenth of one percent (given you won't be dropping jams at extreme range anyway, who cares...). The Keres is still worthwhile, it just lacks a survivability buff over and above the Griffin.

EAF's, therefore, are not all bad. Nor are they all obsoleted by T1 EWAR frigates.

True, they all could use a serious doubling in normally attainable EHP (to at least, you know, 4K), but that is about it. Also, like AFs, they really need a MWD sig radius bonus. Besides, you're doing the Keres wrong - it should be quad ASB fit.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-12-09 09:43:40 UTC
All ships will be rebalanced in their due time ... All ...



Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#10 - 2012-12-09 10:04:26 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Oh, I do understand that the T2 frigs (with the exception of AF's) are getting a change. But why in hell would CCP decide to do all T1 ships across all hull sizes first?

The sane method would be to focus on the T1, faction, and T2 variants all at once for a specific hull size, then move onto the next hull size.
Yes, doing all the vanilla T1 variants at once makes the less SP players happy, but truly annoys the players who have invested tons of SP in a specific hull size.

I look at ships like the EAF's, or the Navy Vexor, and compare them to their T1 variants, and just cry.



Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
EAF's were never that popular


What exactly is the problem? They're coming, relax, grab a drink, use T1.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-09 10:43:34 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Romvex wrote:
T2 ships have yet to be balanced. most, including EAFs, are terrible ships. I'm sure once Fozzie gets his hands on them they will be better than the T1 variants, but for now that is the case. Personally i'm buying as many cheap and currently bad T2 ships as i can, hoping for them to gain value once balanced


Oh, I do understand that the T2 frigs (with the exception of AF's) are getting a change. But why in hell would CCP decide to do all T1 ships across all hull sizes first?

The sane method would be to focus on the T1, faction, and T2 variants all at once for a specific hull size, then move onto the next hull size.
Yes, doing all the vanilla T1 variants at once makes the less SP players happy, but truly annoys the players who have invested tons of SP in a specific hull size.

I look at ships like the EAF's, or the Navy Vexor, and compare them to their T1 variants, and just cry.

read the damn devblogs. pete's sake. Rome wasn't build in a day, now was it?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right