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Why Mine In HighSec?
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Dave Stark
#41 - 2012-12-08 21:44:56 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
gfldex wrote:
In 0.0 miners are taxed. Either by paying rent or by station refinery tax (or both). And them 0.0 overlords wont lower that tax just because you did a few missions for them.


what kind of terribad 0.0 alliances do this?



That's just they way they all are in null. Ask them why.


none that i've ever been in... 0% refining tax and no rental costs.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#42 - 2012-12-08 21:45:18 UTC
OP sure has disapeared himsel,f for being so 'interested'.

Seems like rick-roll.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2012-12-08 21:47:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:


none that i've ever been in... 0% refining tax and no rental costs.



Just because you type something does not mean we have to believe it. I can swear till I'm blue that my skin really is blue, but you can never really know can you. Even a photo can be doctored.

There is no such thing as the 'truth' on the InterWebs.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Aila Garris
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-12-08 21:48:02 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
gfldex wrote:
In 0.0 miners are taxed. Either by paying rent or by station refinery tax (or both). And them 0.0 overlords wont lower that tax just because you did a few missions for them.


what kind of terribad 0.0 alliances do this?



That's just they way they all are in null. Ask them why.

Someone's gotta build those stations, capital ships, supercaps, and replacement ships, and most people won't actually donate to the alliance as a whole unless you force them to, so the best way to do it is a tax.
Dave Stark
#45 - 2012-12-08 21:52:13 UTC
Aila Garris wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
gfldex wrote:
In 0.0 miners are taxed. Either by paying rent or by station refinery tax (or both). And them 0.0 overlords wont lower that tax just because you did a few missions for them.


what kind of terribad 0.0 alliances do this?



That's just they way they all are in null. Ask them why.

Someone's gotta build those stations, capital ships, supercaps, and replacement ships, and most people won't actually donate to the alliance as a whole unless you force them to, so the best way to do it is a tax.


you mean... not every one has a tech moon?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#46 - 2012-12-08 22:03:03 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

you mean... not every one has a tech moon?



Dave, seriously STOP. I know YOU know all this very well already.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#47 - 2012-12-08 22:05:30 UTC
Ekscalybur wrote:
Null sec has a reputation, true or false, that precedes it. Such as an NSA job interview process. Expectations / requirements of their playtime and/or resources. I'm sure many players want nothing to do with that kind of nonsense.

The playtime part is basically why I'm still in hisec. Joined the game with the intention of going to null as soon as the rl time restrictions were allowing regular ingame times. Sadly that did not change Sad.

Remove standings and insurance.
Dave Stark
#48 - 2012-12-08 22:08:54 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

you mean... not every one has a tech moon?



Dave, seriously STOP. I know YOU know all this very well already.


stop what? i'm not doing anything.
Hate 101
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-12-08 22:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hate 101
well in null they use bot miners they don't need real miners if they fix the bot mining maybe it be worth mining in null then
easy to talk trash about high sec mining when you use bots to mine in null
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#50 - 2012-12-08 23:04:46 UTC
Hate 101 wrote:
well in null they use bot miners they don't need real miners if they fix the bot mining maybe it be worth mining in null then
easy to talk trash about high sec mining when you use bots to mine in null


http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1203/botting-by-region-ff2012.jpg
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-12-08 23:13:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


I sure the heck make more with my "2 Hulks and an Orca" than I do Missioning Level 4's. Especially after the Mission LP and Reward nerf. Seriously more in mining with multiple accounts.


The thing is you're using 3 characters to do it, how much isk would you pull in if you were using 3 characters to multibox level 4s?

I'd be interested to see the comparison on a per character basis as I assuming you mean you make more with an orca and 2 hulks plugging away at rocks than a single character would make running level 4's and plugging away at NPCs, please correct me if my assumption is wrong.



My old Alliance leader in Bison used to 3-Toon level 4's just for fun. His money was really in the mining. Not sure what the difference was though.


He was doing something wrong.

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Dave Stark
#52 - 2012-12-08 23:14:43 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Hate 101 wrote:
well in null they use bot miners they don't need real miners if they fix the bot mining maybe it be worth mining in null then
easy to talk trash about high sec mining when you use bots to mine in null


http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1203/botting-by-region-ff2012.jpg


i lol'd heartily.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-12-08 23:15:59 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
OP sure has disapeared himsel,f for being so 'interested'.

Seems like rick-roll.


I'd lose interest pretty quickly too if you came in & **** up my thread.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#54 - 2012-12-08 23:38:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Nullsec is far safer than hi-sec, as we're so frequently and authoritatively told. Hi-sec miners are adrenaline junkies who can't be satisfied with any lesser thrill.


Nullsec is safer because the people who love there make it that way. ABCM are low value because nullsec miners make it that way. People mine in nullsec/w-space, that is evidenced by the low value of ABCM. If people were not mining in null & w-space, those ores would be more valuable.

There is a rebalance of ores required, that much is true. The value of pyrite indicates that the mineral is too scarce: the demand for pyerite is hard to satisfy due to the volume of Scordite required to meet that demand. Simple tweaks like replacing the Nocxium in a refining batch of Pyroxeres with a suitable volume of Pyerite will go a long way to rebalancing the value of hisec ores versus lowsec and "other sec".

But in the end, the original question was trolling. Mining is done in nullsec, but to do so safely requires intel channels, NAP/NIP lists as long as your arm, and a tolerance for blue-on-blue with the hope of getting reimbursed for losses.

AFK mining is done in hisec because that is how some people in lowsec or nullsec fund their PvP. AFK mining is perfectly safe thanks to the role bonuses on the Mackinaw (check Show Info: it says right there that the Mack is designed for AFK mining: moderate tank, high yield, high cargo capacity).

In their recent economics brief, CCP have clearly stated that they want people AFK mining in hisec because rebalancing ships is easier than rebalancing ores or changing the mining game.

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EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-12-08 23:40:27 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Turelus wrote:
So why?

Because anywhere other than high-sec, a miner must pay attention to the game.


This is why 100% sometimes you want to pee or make a sammich without getting expolded.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#56 - 2012-12-08 23:47:25 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Hate 101 wrote:
well in null they use bot miners they don't need real miners if they fix the bot mining maybe it be worth mining in null then
easy to talk trash about high sec mining when you use bots to mine in null

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1203/botting-by-region-ff2012.jpg

But the evil goons ~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#57 - 2012-12-09 00:13:29 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


I sure the heck make more with my "2 Hulks and an Orca" than I do Missioning Level 4's. Especially after the Mission LP and Reward nerf. Seriously more in mining with multiple accounts.


The thing is you're using 3 characters to do it, how much isk would you pull in if you were using 3 characters to multibox level 4s?

I'd be interested to see the comparison on a per character basis as I assuming you mean you make more with an orca and 2 hulks plugging away at rocks than a single character would make running level 4's and plugging away at NPCs, please correct me if my assumption is wrong.

edit looks like part of my question was answered while I posted, not editing it out though or I'll have a zero content post Oops


3 boxing a L4 mission pulls up to 120M per hour.
3 boxing 3 L4 missions can yield more but it's much much harder to do.
5 boxing hi sec mining pulls something like half of it.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2012-12-09 00:17:52 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
I sure the heck make more with my "2 Hulks and an Orca" than I do Missioning Level 4's. Especially after the Mission LP and Reward nerf.
Which LP and reward nerf was that?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#59 - 2012-12-09 00:27:42 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


3 boxing a L4 mission pulls up to 120M per hour.
3 boxing 3 L4 missions can yield more but it's much much harder to do.
5 boxing hi sec mining pulls something like half of it.


Thanks for the info, it's pretty much in line with what I expected.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-09 01:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Dave stark wrote:
Turelus wrote:
So this is actually a serious question I have always wondered.

So often there are threads from miners saying they're unhappy with the way they're treated in HighSec. They complain that they are can flipped, bumped and even ganked just because griefers want to have fun.

Why don't miners who are upset with this look for NullSec Alliances and join them? There are no can flippers or bumpers in NullSec, your chances of getting ganked are far lower due in intel channels letting you know when hostile forces are coming your way and instantly knowing any one in local not blue is going to shoot you.

There are "hidden belts" that respawn every day (I believe) with far more valuable ores in them to mine.

So why?


can flipping doesn't exist. hi retriever and mackinaw ships, looking at you here buddy!
bumping only happens to afk ice miners, in like 1-2 select systems, which is also easily countered by orbiting the asteroids...
and if people want to gank you, they are going to gank you no matter what you are doing. also, if people bothered to fit a tank they'd encounter such behaviour much less often.

why don't we go to null sec? well firstly, the asteroids are worth a very small fraction more, and involve great transportation costs/effort in order to get our refined product to the trade hub that by the time we've done so; it's less profitable to mine in 0.0.
so let's see, we can sit undisturbed in high sec and mine low ends for decent isk, or we can go to 0.0 and mine ore worth about the same isk and then lose our profits on logistics.

high sec mining is fine, 3 people on the forums complaining about how the bad man made them cry over a game is no indication that mining in high sec is "bad" or "not possible" or anything else, it's just them needing a prescription of man the **** up.

tl;dr high sec mining is more lucrative and less hassle.


if ppl really want to gank you, they'll make sure they have enough alpha available to get it done.
the only defence against ganking is never undocking.

i dont pay/play to not undock


to answer the OP
◦ because they can
◦ because CCP put asteroids in hisec and mining ships in the game .... that kinda says to me "ccp planned for hisec mining"




[edit]
2nd defence against ganking -->
◦ dont fit several officer mods
◦ dont carry 500 plex in your cargo