Player Features and Ideas Discussion

1. Only BOs NOT recons can possibly have the no cyno delay. Otherwise this idea just makes AFK cloaking even MORE powerful. Just make the afk cloakers switch to recons.
2. Only BOs and Covert Op cloaks can get you removed from local.

Either that or just forget the removing from local bit and put the delay on the Cyno, less problems then while still solving the major problem from cloakers.

Everyone can defend from a single cloaked ship, no-one can defend from a cloaky putting a hot-drop on your head.

Also its not going to affect super-ratting either way, they always sit align so disappear off before you can do anything anyway (if the pilot's IQ isn't in single figures anyway! :) )

The whole point of being removed from local, is to stop the reason for AFKing.

As for the cyno delay, the force recon and the BO should be exempt. The recon cyno can still be stopped with a jammer, but that makes it situational rather than fixed.

My own idea based around the cyno was as such, with a slight change based around the covert cyno and timing.

All cynos have as standard a 1 minute spool up timer, but the BO and the Force Recon get a bonus to reduce this.
The bonus could work one of two ways:

1. 20% per level reduction in spool up per level, leaving no spool up time at level 5.

or 2. 11 Seconds per level reduction in spool up time, leaving 5 seconds at level 5.

This would mean that the use of ships with cynos would be far more tactical and situational. You will need to choose the correct ship for any particular operation.
You can still use a cheap throw away alt or any ship type for cynoing, but if you wish to hotdrop then a choice must be made.

and that's why it won't be implemented

I like it. It's an elegant solution, it covers the main issues with few changes.

Personally, I don't particularly mind the way the system is set up now, I can live with it. But, if this will put a knife in AFK Cloaker complaining, I'm definitely for it.

Conceptually, I like the idea of the cloaked ship dissapearing off local (though briefly there when entering the system.) Being "local-blind" once cloaked seems to me a fair trade for that advantage.

The cyno delay and which ships receive it could withstand some debate. All in all the idea seems ready enough for you to bounce it off the CSM. There's enough of them in that group with hefty knowledge of 0.0 (the locale where this will likely have it's strongest effect) that they or the think-tanks in their alliances should be able to catch any oversights not covered here.

Hm, a thought, what would be the effect of this in say High-Sec Wars? Having those reds dissapear in the more "secure" regions of space might be quite the advantage in that style of fighting.

^^Goes without saying, but I'll repeat it regardless. Or, to look at it another way:

As long as nullseccers--and other entities--get so many free "god-mode intel" tools--local, private intel channels, and fixed/known entry/exit points to their space--then cloaking in its' current form, along with cyno mechanics, are working exactly as they should be.

(Above, in before whinging victim-card waving zerosec carebears )

You are correct, AFK cloaking is not an issue but the local intel channel is.

Not sure how it will make solo and small scale PvP rarer though tbh.

Oh yes, another remove local thread. Ok how bout:

Remove local
Remove JBs
Remove Jump Freighters
Don't nerf supers
Remove blockade runners
Nerf all ships with jump drives to 1 LY max
Nerf freighter cargoholds to 100km3

Yeah lets make life in nullsec shittier. We already can't mine because every goddamn system is full of jackasses in bombers and cloaky t3s who will cyno in a full blops fleet at a moments notice, can't rat for the same reason, not that it's worth it with the sanctum nerf. Let's make it easier for 50 man gangs to **** us in the ass, or for enemies to drop a fleet of 50 titans in system because all we'll see is a cyno and not a local spike. Yes make it impossible to tell when we jump into a system that there are 20 reds on the next gate because you don't have local. You think null is safe? YOU DONT ******* LIVE IN NULL THEN. You pubbies need to stay in high sec and keep your mouths shut. Null is not high sec, it is not low sec, it is not ******* wormhole space. We dont have gate guns, we dont have concord and our gates dont stop letting people in when a certain number comes through. You want 0 on 1 go to highsec (if you idiots learned how to fit ships you wouldnt get ganked so easily), you want 1 on 1 or small gang go to low sec, If you want to not see an enemy for months and just collect isk get in a wormhole.

Nullsec is for big boys and girls. People who know how to organize. People who can form large social groups who can rally around a common goal and work together. People who do isk making crap to fund their reason for being in 0.0. PVP. Real pvp, not roleplaying fake fight crap, not wardeccing **** corps (except for the lulz and tears), not ganking idiots in bad ratting ships (except for lulz), getting into fleets where your FC goddamn better have the fleet command skill, and killing massive ships, and hundreds of people. If you cant get a fleet of at least 50 forget about ever coming to null. You'll just cry like a ***** the moment you get hit with a fleet with a capital in it. Nullsec is not a nice place.

Local has a purpose, its not just to keep us alive. No local you dont know what to bring out, is it a 10 man gang? Is it 50 guys come to **** around? Or is it 400 subcaps supporting a capfleet with 100 ships come to try and take your moons/sov/slaughter everything. Null is not in any way shape or form SAFE. You die, A LOT. Sov holders and their enemies alike. Come to Fountain some time, go to Serpentis space and spend some time with them, get bombed to oblivion. Come fight PL, Brick, MM, Evoke, AAA, Black Legion, Sniggwaffe, Monkey Circus, Nulli Secunda, and 2 dozen other corps and alliances that attack daily. Head to Delve and enjoy the massive fleets with the same guys who will **** your face. Oh yeah so safe.

This is what nullsec is, it is not highsec. If you're smart, pay attention to intel and local, and don't do stupid **** you might be able to fly around in that nice ship of yours for a week or two. The only way to survive nullsec is the same way you win eve. You stop undocking, and you unsubscribe.

@Princess Cellestia

Remove local - No, just change local from being an ultimate intel tool to being a mean of communication with limited intel providing ability.
Remove JBs, Remove Jump Freighters, Don't nerf supers, Remove blockade runners, Nerf all ships with jump drives to 1 LY max, Nerf freighter cargoholds to 100km3 - I don't think anyone is seriously advocating any of the claims above.

Your post looks like an attempt to accuse anyone advocating changes to local/cloaking as being a whiner living someplace else, not in null. Yet, your entire post is nothing else but a whine.


I'm a WH dweller, but had my share of living in sov null, and all I can say is that your "living in null is hell" claim is grossly exaggerated.
Even now, whenever we get an exit to null, 90% of the time we see the same picture:
Vast regions of mostly empty space, populated by very few people, doing nothing but PvE all day long (judging by ship types we find in space and also number of NPC wrecks compared to number of people). No cynobombers, no capital blobs, no camps, mostly nothing of the sort. Now, I'm not saying that this sort of stuff doesn't happen at all, but I'm pretty sure that a competent, well organised group of people (which you claim to be) should be able to handle those threats.

From my perspective and experience it takes far more organisation and teamwork to do PvE ops with reasonable security in WH than in null space. Do you for instance have a scout on every gate while doing PvE? Is there a need to probe the entire system before the op, and is this a common practice? No. Mostly your entire intel gathering/threat assesment is based on watching local. Assuming it's actually you and not some botting alt. I feel absolutely no pity for your troubles mate.

And for the matter of cyno blobs, which is the only significant difference in risk compared to WH space:
Besides the delay in cyno firing, the proposed change says that a cloaked pilot is not only removed from local list, but also has no access to it. Therefore, he cannot at any time (while being cloaked) know exactly how many of you are in system, and evaluate if the situation is viable for a hotdrop or is his fleet risking a trap. AFK cloaking in this proposed change is therefore obsolete as it cannot provide any intel without pilot's presence and also serves no purpose in making you guys nervous 'cause there's a red in system - you simply don't know he's there.

And finally, for your 400 man blob vs blob "real PvP" - cloaking mechanics and local won't affect this in any way as it is unlikely to imagine a fleet of 400 BS + capitals all fitting cloak and still making sense.

Hey, mindless lemming, given that zerosec is supposed to be the acme of player-driven content in this game, well then...it follows on that it was YOU who've made it that way.

You shat your beds, feel free to sleep in them.

Go play your victim-card somewhere else, you spoiled, pathetic little carebear: "Princess," indeed!

That'd be easy to do. There are cynos then there's the covert cynos. No delay for covert cynos 'cause Blacks Ops certainly don't need a nerf right now.

Im cool with your system because it works both ways. Cloaking make you invisible and blind to local.