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Large bounties, pointless.

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Bohoba
#41 - 2012-12-07 18:59:08 UTC
so a 20 bill bounty

hi sec gank his suttle u get what 2K and you lose a ship hummm

if in a rohk you get a few mill

and you lose sec status

system is not working as I see it needs to be better payout for it to be worth it thats for sure
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#42 - 2012-12-07 19:00:22 UTC
Since the bounty is "permanent", meaning it can't be taken back even if it was your own alt who set up the bounty, then all we need is an expiration date.

If you are willing to place 50 bil on your Jita alt and forever lose that money unless you actually lose it anyways by blowing yourself up, then so be it. If the bounty is not collected, it expires and we have an awesome ISK sink.

The problem you described would essentially get corrected over time.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#43 - 2012-12-07 19:01:55 UTC
Bohoba wrote:
so a 20 bill bounty

hi sec gank his suttle u get what 2K and you lose a ship hummm

if in a rohk you get a few mill

and you lose sec status

system is not working as I see it needs to be better payout for it to be worth it thats for sure


You're proposing the old system, where people would get large bounties and then blow themselves up with an alt or with a friend. Paying more than the ship is worth is a losing proposition through nothing other than basic math.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#44 - 2012-12-07 21:59:08 UTC
The answer to this is clearly that you need to be able to hire dust mercs to infiltrate a station and collect the bounty.... Pirate

Where I am.
Primary Her
Weebs in Wormholes
#45 - 2012-12-07 22:03:12 UTC
Putting bounties on competing jump freighter pilots is in fact pretty awesome.
Diamond Bull
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-12-07 22:06:59 UTC
Eh? The bounty system has had no effect on me as far as I am concerned. It is a silly thing not worthy of my attention in game. However, I think the payouts are a bit ridiculous. I mean... Why would anyone in their right mind gank someone for less than they can get for killing one rat? Even then you'd have to start subtracting the cost of the ship they used if it was a suicide gank. The only people who I see benefiting this are the people who would have ganked anyway.
Karig'Ano Keikira
Tax Cheaters
#47 - 2012-12-07 22:10:25 UTC
Troll or not, I wonder...
anyway, EVE mechanics prevent bounty of > 20%
making sense, simply due to fact that you can suicide
your fully insured ship with no modules by an alt -
if bounty is > 20%, it becomes profitable and there
is no way around that, therefore 20% cap to payouts
ofc, if insurance is removed things might become
interesting, but I guess it won't happen
off the topic - why the insurance mechanic anyway?
The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
#48 - 2012-12-07 22:32:03 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Serptimis wrote:
Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right Blink

I would rather not see every single persons Insurance being voided by someone placing minimum bounties on every person in local. That and losing the ability to place insurance because another mechanic.

Instead I would prefer the entire Insurance mechanic be weeded out in its entirety quick and clean like pulling a band-aid off.



Just curious but did they fix the insurance payout for t2 and t3? seeing as that is almost only what i fly i haven't. Even opened the insurance window since the first time i saw how little the payout was for the actual value of the ship.

And if then havnet than you can assume that anyone flying a t2 or t3 probaly wont bother with the insurance.

Of course i am remembering when i would get a hac for 120ish mil with a max insurance payout of like 15-20mil

Being a smartass is always better than being a dumbass!
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-12-07 22:39:25 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:


I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.


Just curious, but what exactly do you see as a point in a system where some idiot with more isk than sense drops bounties on anyone talking in the Help Chat? If you think that's "kewl" in the CCP design meetings, you guys really need to hire some adults to supervise the playground. This "new and improved" system is starting to unravel just like your T3 BC plan did.


say the dude with his alt.....
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-07 22:42:05 UTC
Large bounty's are not pointless, sure you only get a small sum of it each time you kill them but that just means you have the chance to stalk your prey constantly and get cash for each kill making for prolonged bounty hunting.

One would think a hunter would prefer hunting the same target instead of having to dig up information on a new target after each kill. People are subject to repetition meaning you can find out the best times to gank someone after a bit of observation. So with this new system a hunter can find 2-3 targets that seem to always have bounty's and find their weaknesses and begin a long hunt essentially giving the hunter a passive income.

Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows.
Alara IonStorm
#51 - 2012-12-07 22:49:42 UTC
The CandyGirl wrote:

Just curious but did they fix the insurance payout for t2 and t3? seeing as that is almost only what i fly i haven't. Even opened the insurance window since the first time i saw how little the payout was for the actual value of the ship.

And if then havnet than you can assume that anyone flying a t2 or t3 probaly wont bother with the insurance.

Of course i am remembering when i would get a hac for 120ish mil with a max insurance payout of like 15-20mil

Nope they still have pathetically low insurance. I hope they fix it soon so the insurance cost will be 0 and the payout 0 for all ships T1 T2 T3 and Faction Ships.

Pathetically low is too much money given free for a loss.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#52 - 2012-12-07 22:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
As much as it would be nice to collect on the entire bounty, something had to be done. The old system simply didn't work. You use an alt or trusted fellow player to kill you and collect on it yourself. What else could they have done?


I think that the changes made for an adequate solution to the previous problem.

As for insurance, I think insurance needs to be next to change. I have an idea for it so gonna go post it in the suggestions section.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-12-07 23:09:59 UTC
no just pull a 5 billion bounty on that ratting nyx pilot you know, that just sometimes once you where there camped a gate or supported a hotdrop, or 30 billions on that titan, now you got some really big corp running and spying on them all the time, or get a big bounty on that stupid carebear that kills rookies for a living canfliping them infront of stations, hes gonna be worth a couple millions sometime and hes gonna get baited sometime exactly like he does all the tim

this new bounty system is not about who is top 10, but every single guy who is under it
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#54 - 2012-12-07 23:15:58 UTC
Soooo.... Bounties aren't profitable in high sec?
Lets take the much loved retriever.
Gankable by a single destroyer according to people.
Value of a retriever, maybe 30 mil once modules and some ore in the cargo hold are taken into account.
You get maybe 2-3 million in loot drops off it.
You get a 6 million bounty off it.
This means to make a profit, all you need is a single destroyer to cost you under 8 million.


Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.

And this is without looking at the pimp mission fit pirate battleships with officer fits that are worth billions flying around high sec.

Are 'some' fits like a heavily tanked drake going to be unprofitable to gank when just flying between gates & no kill rights on them in high sec. Sure. Is this a problem? I sure don't think so.
Merouk Baas
#55 - 2012-12-07 23:28:53 UTC
IMO, the impact of the bounty revolves around losing your high-sec protections, if you had any. Specifically, if you have a high bounty on you, you'll want to avoid doing anything that disables Concord.

Namely:

- Join a player corp and your corpies may try to fleet you up and blow you up for kicks (and now ISKs).

- Join a player corp and they may get wardecced, for the chance to shoot you during the war. I.E. the wardec is because of you. Don't know who's gonna recruit high-bounty players anymore.

- The top 10 list is publishing your name, in a game where anonymity is preferred. Everyone's running locator agents all the time, stalking, harrassing, etc. Ask Chribba about the unwanted attention he's getting, or that Somer Blink woman they blogged about, or anybody popular.

- Generating killrights via sucide ganking can be problematic for the ganker, as he can now get interrupted by annoying people activating killrights left and right. Activities that used to be fun are now annoying.

- Passage through low sec is now more problematic, as your bounty will attract the locals more than passers-through did in the past.

Veterans see the bounty as a chance to PVP, even profit. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of the newbies, and quite a few of the carebears will see it as something that's not under their control but makes their character completely useless and unable to undock, be recruited, do anything in the game.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2012-12-07 23:30:34 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

The guys at the top of the list dont' care.

krixtal, one of the most bountied people in eve, has already declared he is quitting in a huff

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Merouk Baas
#57 - 2012-12-07 23:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.


Lol, do try that.

1. In high sec, Concord.

2. New mission rat AI means they all switch to you because:

a. You've just entered the pocket.
b. You're in a smaller ship.
c. You're using ewar (to tackle).

If the frigate rats don't point you, the mission ship is free to defend himself and all he has to do is point you back. The rats will likely stay on you, even with his use of ewar.

EDIT: Also, the same rat AI when YOU decide to grind back your -10 so you can re-enter highsec.
Holy One
Privat Party
#58 - 2012-12-07 23:44:49 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.


How do you hunt someone's scrubby alt that never undocks?

:)
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-12-07 23:48:23 UTC
CFC tears nonshocker. Delicious!
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-08 15:45:34 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
As much as it would be nice to collect on the entire bounty, something had to be done. The old system simply didn't work. You use an alt or trusted fellow player to kill you and collect on it yourself. What else could they have done?


I think that the changes made for an adequate solution to the previous problem.

As for insurance, I think insurance needs to be next to change. I have an idea for it so gonna go post it in the suggestions section.

Paying out the entire bounty was a bad idea, and still is. I don't advocate that.
And you are correct, the 20% payout is an addiquate solution to people blowing themselves up to collect the bounty.

Gettng 25%, 30%, 35%, etc. based on the amount of the bounty would make having large bounties really mean something.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Soooo.... Bounties aren't profitable in high sec?
Lets take the much loved retriever.
Gankable by a single destroyer according to people.
Value of a retriever, maybe 30 mil once modules and some ore in the cargo hold are taken into account.
You get maybe 2-3 million in loot drops off it.
You get a 6 million bounty off it.
This means to make a profit, all you need is a single destroyer to cost you under 8 million.


Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.

And this is without looking at the pimp mission fit pirate battleships with officer fits that are worth billions flying around high sec.

Are 'some' fits like a heavily tanked drake going to be unprofitable to gank when just flying between gates & no kill rights on them in high sec. Sure. Is this a problem? I sure don't think so.

That's not really an example of profiting from the bounty sytem. You're relying on the potential drops, and the more that drops the less you get from the bounty pool.

CCP was really smart about how they implemented the payout.

Merouk Baas wrote:

IMO, the impact of the bounty revolves around losing your high-sec protections, if you had any. Specifically, if you have a high bounty on you, you'll want to avoid doing anything that disables Concord.

Namely:

- Join a player corp and your corpies may try to fleet you up and blow you up for kicks (and now ISKs).

- Join a player corp and they may get wardecced, for the chance to shoot you during the war. I.E. the wardec is because of you. Don't know who's gonna recruit high-bounty players anymore.

- The top 10 list is publishing your name, in a game where anonymity is preferred. Everyone's running locator agents all the time, stalking, harrassing, etc. Ask Chribba about the unwanted attention he's getting, or that Somer Blink woman they blogged about, or anybody popular.

- Generating killrights via sucide ganking can be problematic for the ganker, as he can now get interrupted by annoying people activating killrights left and right. Activities that used to be fun are now annoying.

- Passage through low sec is now more problematic, as your bounty will attract the locals more than passers-through did in the past.

Veterans see the bounty as a chance to PVP, even profit. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of the newbies, and quite a few of the carebears will see it as something that's not under their control but makes their character completely useless and unable to undock, be recruited, do anything in the game.

I don't thinkk most of this is relevant to the bounty system.

1) That's a silly reason to not join a player corp, and you can always start your own if you're silly enough to let this prevent you from expanding you possible gameplay in EVE.

2) Individual bounties aren't going to have an impact on corp activety. A corp bounty is going to attrack a wardeck.

5) Passage through lowsec on monday morning was no easier then it is today. If your corp doesn't control the gate, you're probably getting shot. Bounties are just an added bonus. Maybe they'll encourage more people to go to these areas of space, and I do hope it does, but that effect won't really be known or accurately measured for some time. We need a few months to see how things settle.

Anyone that leaves EVE because of a mechanic that they don't have complete control over, shouldn't be playing EVE. That's not how EVE works, it's never worked that way, and it's never intended to work that way. It's the point of a sandbox; one that is lost on many.

The results of the barge and ehuamer rebalance show that even your saftey in high sec has an impact on the larger game. CCP admits that buffing them had a impact on the number of people AFK and Bot mining in high sec, and they showed how it's impacting the game as a whole.

The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.



At the same time they made it easier and safer to mine in high sec, they made it harder and less attractive to blow up a miner. CCP didn't want one ship singled out for destructin because you could almost always make a profit off of it, I agree. However, all ships isn't the same as a single ship, and if it costs many other people lots of ISK to make a single ship profitable, that wouldn't be bad.

A billion 5 isk bounty on a single person in order for someone to be able to gank them, with the right amount of value being flown, and make small profit, would be good for us. Us, as in the whole of EVE's playerbase. A mulit-billion ISK bounty would take work, coordination, and a large investment from the wider community to maintane.