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CCP, you are taking away the meaning of the (Wanted) sign!

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#141 - 2012-12-08 09:10:11 UTC
Jawas wrote:
The bounty should only be able to be placed on someone who another person currently has kill rights on, not necessarily placed by the person who has the kill rights, or one who has killed too many people in their career. If you attempt to place a bounty on someone who has not, you should get a message telling you that they have done nothing to warrant it. Your personal opinion of them being an idiot on chat is irrelevant, you have the ability to block them on chat, so use it.

Those evil miners mining your ore will escape

retribution.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tor Mitchel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#142 - 2012-12-08 10:46:18 UTC
Jawas wrote:
Because a bounty is something that denotes that the pilot has done something to earn that bounty.


What if I don't like ugly avatars? I want to place a bounty on people with ugly avatars to encourage others to pop them. Who are you to say I don't have a valid reason for placing those bounties?

Quote:
Like I said, the bounty placed on a random pilot just for giggles makes it totally meaningless.


No, it means they're good for a laugh. I placed a bounty on my CEO. It made me giggle quite a lot. I'd say that was 100k well spent.

Quote:
Also, if newer players start getting ganked for absolutely no reason in highsec, it's going to result in a lot of players unsubbing because it just turns highsec into another lowsec. If you want to kill someone, just place a bounty on them and it's OK, you'll get the bounty back when you kill them. I can really see that going down well, youll have only hardcore PVP players and nobody else in game. Cowards will target new players in highsec this way because they are easy targets. Eve wouldn't be able to survive that sort of revenue loss because there are not enough hardcore PVPers to keep the game funded alone.

In reality, this is nothing less than legalising a griefing tactic. Place bounty, kill, recover isk placed as bounty, place another bounty, wait for player to undock and kill his next ship. repeat until player quits and then move onto the next player. The problem is that those who quit will probably unsub as well.


OK, you appear to be confused so I want you to say this with me: Bounties do not equal kill rights.

Got that? Let's try again.

BOUNTIES DO NOT EQUAL KILL RIGHTS.

If I place a 100k bounty on you and destroy your 10million ISK ship in HiSec with no kill rights, losing my 20million ISK ship in the process, it means that: I invest 100k ISK, lose 20million ISK, regain 100k ISK from that bounty.

Hell, even if you have a 1billion ISK bounty, I'm still only going to gain 2 million ISK from killing your ship (20% loss value) netting me an ~18million ISK loss.

Quote:
The bounty should only be able to be placed on someone who another person currently has kill rights on, not necessarily placed by the person who has the kill rights, or one who has killed too many people in their career. If you attempt to place a bounty on someone who has not, you should get a message telling you that they have done nothing to warrant it. Your personal opinion of them being an idiot on chat is irrelevant, you have the ability to block them on chat, so use it.


Who are you to say my opinion is irrelevant? Your opinion is of exactly equal value to my own.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#143 - 2012-12-08 11:15:13 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
Do that but without the 20% handling fee and we have a winner.


Handling fee is to discourage the use of "bounty bots" that would just repeat bounties as they get refunded. Eventually the bot-alt would run out of ISK, at least if their main doesn't keep refilling their purse.

Plus it would also discourage the people throwing a billion ISK boutny out for lulz, knowing that they'd be tossing 200,000,000 ISK out the window if that person decides to just dock up and switch to their alt for three months.

In other words, you'd be less likely to want to "invest" in a bounty that you didn't think would be collected on in three months.

It's not unprecedented, either. Game mechanics tax pretty much everything else in EvE. Planet export tax, brokers fees, SCC taxes, corp taxes. Why not a tax on bounties, too? And it's just done after the fact on one's that aren't collected on... so it would still be the best deal in town.

And that's the problem.
The player can avoid the thing by waiting 3 months, and then the one who put up the bounty losses money.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Xan Nailloris
Cetax Syndicate
#144 - 2012-12-08 11:39:29 UTC
I agree with the OP completely. The bounty system itself is fine. The WANTED sign is not.

A purpose of a sign (any sign) is to add some information. If everyone is WANTED, such sign has no purpose. It's like putting a "this is a door" sign at every door.

Various signs based on total bounty along with no sign for low bounties as it was proposed by others is logical and easy to implement solution. It also adds "prestige" factor.

As far as a "mechanic to remove bounty" goes, there already is such a mechanic. Buy one or more ships of five times your bounty value and ask a corpmate to blow you up. Problem solved.

I would personally also add an option to "pay for your crimes", i.e. remove the amount of bounty by paying five times the amount to concord (or bounty office, whatever). You can already do the exact same thing by popping ships, so this would just make it more convenient. Plus the obvious advantage is that this is one more money sink. EVE needs more money sinks.
Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#145 - 2012-12-08 11:49:50 UTC
Jawas wrote:

In reality, this is nothing less than legalising a griefing tactic. Place bounty, kill, recover isk placed as bounty, place another bounty, wait for player to undock and kill his next ship. repeat until player quits and then move onto the next player. The problem is that those who quit will probably unsub as well.

The bounty should only be able to be placed on someone who another person currently has kill rights on, not necessarily placed by the person who has the kill rights, or one who has killed too many people in their career. If you attempt to place a bounty on someone who has not, you should get a message telling you that they have done nothing to warrant it. Your personal opinion of them being an idiot on chat is irrelevant, you have the ability to block them on chat, so use it.


You seem to think you can shoot someone with a bounty in highsec without kill rights or a suspect timer...this is not true. Noobs will not be getting ganked just because they have bounties that are worth less than the modules required to gank them. And since you only get 20% of a ships value when its killed you have to kill 5x the value of someones bounty to get it all.

And again i point out why is someone that killed you the only people that should get bounties? You only get kill rights against someone if you didnt fight back. If you attempt to defend yourself you dont get killrights against them.

What about people that scam? Ransom you then let you go? Camp you into station for days or weeks? Corp theifs? Ore theifs? And I think idiots on chat is an acceptable reason, just because you can block someone doesnt mean you have to and cant punish them for it. Said it already but blowing up miners and freighter pilots and camping lowsec gates are not the only bad people in EvE. And there are plenty of people in EvE i dislike that have never killed anyone. EvE has always been about emergant game play and player content...this is player content deal with it

And yes the low bounties being placed on everyone are pointless, but its a brand new feature and will wear off soon, like a kids new toy at xmas, they play with it for a few weeks, then it sits in the back of the cupboard until they really want to use it.

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube
Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#146 - 2012-12-08 11:56:47 UTC
Xan Nailloris wrote:

I would personally also add an option to "pay for your crimes", i.e. remove the amount of bounty by paying five times the amount to concord (or bounty office, whatever). You can already do the exact same thing by popping ships, so this would just make it more convenient. Plus the obvious advantage is that this is one more money sink. EVE needs more money sinks.


This idea isnt terrible. Person with bounty doesnt gain anything, still loses similer amount isk wise.

Would say that value you have to pay is 6x your current bounty. Should have to pay more than you will lose since you are avoiding killboard loses and giving isk to other plays. Given the choice most people would pay it off and have isk leave the game than take lose mails and have someone else get the isk.

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2012-12-08 12:08:26 UTC
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YuuKnow
The Scope
#148 - 2012-12-08 12:09:01 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Hi CCP!

I have a small complaint. I don't like that everyone is spamming eachother with very small amount of bounty. Now everyone has Wanted signs on them. It's cool that people have a bounty on them, but the wanted sign used to say, hey watch out this character might be a little more dangerous and you should be careful with this person. Now all [wanted] means, in my oppinion, is that some noob spammed a 100k bounty on him as a joke.

I am not a killer, and I've never killed anyone, I don't really like that I now have the same title as people with -10 standing, or large bounties that mean something. Also, I feel bad for the hardcore pirates. The people of note who have bounties that mean something. They should be the ones wearing the bounty sign. Not 95% of the entire player base.

It's not a big deal, but in every society, wanted means something drastic. Can you please keep it that way in EVE?

I suggest that the wanted sign isn't shown unless a bounty over 100 million is issued. I'd also like to discuss ways players can reduce or eliminate their own bounties, but I don't have any ideas. I just don't like the idea that I now am "wanted" for 100k for the rest of my Eve Career or until I die.

Thanks for reading everyone please don't increase my bounty just to troll me but I know you will but I will take that punishment in hope that I can make a difference and better EVE online Big smile


This.

yk
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#149 - 2012-12-08 16:03:11 UTC
I should be able to put a 10 billion ISK bounty on someone and feel confident that if they fly anything more than a broke down rifter, that they'll make someone a profit ganking them in high sec.

I want high bounties to mean more and have a real impact on who a bounty hunter would want to collect on.
Being able to blow someone up more, when they only fly in high sec, and refuse to leave the NPC corp, doesn't mean anything.
No one's ganking that guy becuase he's got a 5 billion bounty on them, when the bounty system isn't paying out enough to even cover the cost of the gank.


You can't wardec AFK and bot miners that stay in the NPC corp for exactly that reason.

Wanted, and being high on the bounty list, would mean a heck of a lot more if that number impacted the amount of the payout by increasing it's percentage.

If a 15 billion isk bounty meant a 40% payout, and a 500 million isk bounty meant 20%, who do you think the bounty hunter is more likely to hunt down?

Right now, you have no reason to bother with guys with large bounties. People were being camped in station in low and null before the change, it's not going to make it anymroe likely when it's already the norm. In low and null a bounty is only an added little bonus after you do what you were already going to do anyways, blow up the guy not allied with you.

Not having this impact in high sec, and making mining safer, is having a significant impact on the universe as a whole.
The bounty sytem should be the tool to correct this.

It just needs to be done in a way that it doesn't encourage widespread ganking, and involves significant ISK investments to work. I believe this is possible through scalling the persentage based on bounty amount.

At the same time it would mean being "wanted" could really mean something.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#150 - 2012-12-08 23:47:20 UTC
What would be good is to remove the 'Wanted' label from bounties all together and instead reserve the signs for those -5 or lower sec status. Given the status symbol back to the criminals.

yk
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#151 - 2012-12-08 23:58:54 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
What would be good is to remove the 'Wanted' label from bounties all together and instead reserve the signs for those -5 or lower sec status. Given the status symbol back to the criminals.

yk


See this people, this is what we call a semi sensible suggestion.

A few more of these and we might even make a conversation out of this clusterfuck of a thread

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#152 - 2012-12-09 00:15:57 UTC
I think the "wanted" label should be displayed in the local chat window, like the GCC used to be.

I like the fact that bounties can be placed on anyone. Someone in my alliance has gone around putting hundreds of millions of isk on our own alliance. The result is that only a day or so later, the bounty on us is down to almost zero. People have claimed those bounties by killing our members. Oh the non PvPers complain like hell. Maybe eventually they'll learn to defend themselves. Or quit our alliance. The rest of us welcome a fight. Anytime. Anywhere. Most of us just hope its one we have at least a chance at winning, but still...

I see bounties as a sort of Darwinian mechanism enforcing artificial selection. Don't like the bounty? Don't undock. Hello Kitty Online that way ----->
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-12-09 00:19:52 UTC
The wanted sign should only be added to the really bad offenders. Give it some distinction

Or create a 2nd sign for the 1B and higher bounties
witchking42
Doomheim
#154 - 2012-12-09 00:59:04 UTC
This will all settle down in a few weeks once the novelty of placing bounties has faded.
Eleriien Krhaagh
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2012-12-09 14:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Eleriien Krhaagh
Looking at a profile containing a "wanted" might be at least some kind of relevant information for some people.

Right now everyone has ist and it becomes anoying to find the few "really wanted" ones among the many "100k-wanted-signs" that are placed just on any for no reason...

That's odd!

Perhaps bounties should decrease for some amount each day (@DT) ... so the pointless ones disapear after some time soon?!
Kaildoth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2012-12-09 15:47:19 UTC
Quote:
but the wanted sign used to say, hey watch out this character might be a little more dangerous and you should be careful with this person.


LOL.....
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#157 - 2012-12-09 16:37:27 UTC
The minimum value for a bounty should be minimum value after you add yours.

What I mean is that if someone already has a 100k isk bounty (or an alliance 100M, etc), then you should be able to add any amount.

The main impact this will have is on corps/alliances that are hated by a large number of poor people.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#158 - 2012-12-09 16:38:46 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


If a 15 billion isk bounty meant a 40% payout, and a 500 million isk bounty meant 20%, who do you think the bounty hunter is more likely to hunt down?



So you would rather have 20% of 500 million than 20% of 15 billion?
Challu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2012-12-09 16:40:44 UTC
@OP, it is amusing indeed how pretty much everyone has bounties on their head. Goes to show that this new feature is popular with a whole bunch of peeps., though perhaps not entirely for the purpose intended by CCP :)

To all those worried about their world coming to an end cause of the Wanted tag, hey - live a little. No one cares if you have a 100k isk bounty - they're not going to gank you for that. All this whine about trivial amounts of bounty is probably a reflection of the kid glove environment people have gotten used to in high sec..

To those trying to draw parallels to the real world, do realize that Eve's lore is not supposed to mirror the 'real world'. What fun is there in that... On the other hand, us being able to impose consequences on individuals through isk-power fits nicely into the Eve sandbox thema. Yes, 100k bounties are more representative of pranksters than serious attempts at 'retribution', but you can probably rest easy knowing you'll melt right back into obscurity after the loss of a rifter or two.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#160 - 2012-12-09 16:45:58 UTC
What Challu said. ^^

Again people seem to be confusing wanted, with NPC standings. Any tie they had has been removed and that tie was tenuous before at that. Given the fact that before this change, you could have a player with +5 that had a bounty.

Bounties are and always have been, a player led mechanic. They are wanted, because a player has decided they are wanted.
Time to suck it up fuzzballs.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.