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I think that the easiest fix for the Mack vs Hulk problem is simply to remove the "2 strips/harvesters are as good as 3" bonus on the Mack/Retriever (as well as removing the "1 is as good as 3" bonus on the Skiff/Proc). This would restore the Hulk/Covetor as the top mining ships, for efficiency, yet still keep the Mack/Retriever as the choice for AFK miners, who are willing to trade efficiency for the larger cargohold.

For the Skiff/Proc, I'd like to see weapon hardpoints added. These ships have the tank, so lets give them more gank - and turn them into true combat miners. At the very least, we'd get entertainment value at seeing these ships used in bizarre PVP scenarios.

Note: Yes, kids, AFK mining will never go away. Before the change from standard cargoholds to ore-specific cargoholds, AFK miners fit barges/exhumers for max cargo, while non-AFK miners fit for max efficiency. And, even if you gimp the mining ships by removing their cargoholds completely, AFK miners will use haulers with mining lasers and Orcas with drones.

I am gonna need a mackinaw with a bigger hold to put all the sad people in this thread into, so I can carry them to a happier place.

because that just makes the hulk even worse. i would have even less reason to own a hulk if that were the case than i have to own it now, and i have a hard time justifying undocking it now.

if it was only while in a fleet (regardless of size) then sure, it might be a viable bonus. however forcing the fleet to be so large would be a mistake.

you clearly only have one account, don't you?

ccp's idea was to give every ship a niche. they failed. it's that simple. the mackinaw has ample yield, and tank, and top class cargo capacity. that's not a niche that's just crowning a new king, the exact thing they wanted to get away from. they were told what would happen, the graphs proved it, and they just looked at it and decided to slap each other on the ass and high five each other as the point sailed over their head.

the hulk doesn't even need to be a "fleet only" ship, it just needs to not suck at everything but yield in order to be viable. doesn't matter if it has an extra yield bonus if there's A) nowhere to put the ore, B) not enough room to store crystals to get the most out of these bonuses, C) enough tank to last long enough to warp it out of a belt when rats warp in, or for other ships to deal with them. etc.

the simple fact is that it's let down so badly by every other aspect that it doesn't excel in that you can't use it for it's intended function. it's like owning a car with no wheels and a petrol cap glued shut. sure it might have an engine capable of doing 250mph but you'll never use it because it's got no wheels and you can't fill it with petrol. it's effectively a museum exhibit, which is what's happened to the hulk.

i have more than 2 accounts

then you're the octopus man?

i fail to see how you would benefit from your mining lasers turning off on every other account because you're messing around with some mining mini game on one account that the other miners stop mining.

still doesn't change the fact that you can't play the mini-game on several accounts at once unless you are some kind of freak with 8 arms and/or have mining lasers going inactive.

What I've been curious about is the COMPOSITE effect of certain changes.

Removal of Drone drops in the Drone Region (which was 'competition' for mined ores) -- *WITH* the new minng barges -- *AND* what economic effect replacing mineral drops with bounties had.

Drone Regions produced huge amounts of minerals. These charts simply show mining barge information but is it going in excess of what was gained or still in a deficit from it. Then the increased cash flow from bounties...

• Mining = wealth transfer/sink - as you convert to minerals then sell on market, fees are involved so some isk comes out of the game. No "free wealth" - the isk exists already in the game to go to the miners.
• Bounties = faucet - so isk is pouring in from a sizable area that had very little with respect to isk faucet income.

I've seen a lot of blame on inflation laid at the door of the miners yet the above composite changes aren't discussed.

I just wonder, are minerals still down from those days or actually up, as these charts show. And what effect has the bounties being put in had on the overall economy?

The influx from that faucet could explain a lot of extra isk on the market. If it's also combined with lowered mineral availability due to removal from the Drone Regions... That could explain why prices aren't bottoming out due to mass production.

Sadly, doing what you say is correct but would bring immediately back the issue CCP tried to address. Small cargo = exponential botting and putting Hulk back to the top would lead to rampant botting again.