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Highsec "Carebear" representation from the CSM?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#81 - 2012-12-07 21:42:05 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Just because there is a statistics chart stating that such and such a percentage of players are involved in PvP doesn't mean they actually "like" to PvP.
As luck would have it, it's not that kind of chart. Instead, it's a chart over what people like to do.

PvP tops the list, enjoyed by some 75% of the players.

Quote:
Just saying...those numbers are obviously skewed.
In what why and why is it obvious?
Frying Doom
#82 - 2012-12-07 21:44:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Just because there is a statistics chart stating that such and such a percentage of players are involved in PvP doesn't mean they actually "like" to PvP.
As luck would have it, it's not that kind of chart. Instead, it's a chart over what people like to do.

PvP tops the list, enjoyed by some 75% of the players.

Quote:
Just saying...those numbers are obviously skewed.
In what why and why is it obvious?

Yes poor old mining was only liked by 74% of the players.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-12-07 21:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Tippia wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Just because there is a statistics chart stating that such and such a percentage of players are involved in PvP doesn't mean they actually "like" to PvP.
As luck would have it, it's not that kind of chart. Instead, it's a chart over what people like to do.

PvP tops the list, enjoyed by some 75% of the players.

Quote:
Just saying...those numbers are obviously skewed.
In what why and why is it obvious?

How exactly did they get this information for their chart? Did they take a forced poll of all the players? No...I never filled out any such poll. That would be the only way they can get that information from every single player. Otherwise all they can do is extrapolate the information based on what players are actively doing in the game. That information would likely be incorrect since players do stuff they don't like to in EVE. I hate mining, I hate PI and I hate scanning and PvE but guess what? I do all of them when I have to which is quite often unfortunately.

If the information is taken from a poll, which again is the only way they could get that information legitimately, then I can guarantee you that most players likely didn't bother. Especially the casual High Sec bears who hate PvP.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#84 - 2012-12-07 21:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes poor old mining was only liked by 74% 52% of the players.
Maths is hard, isn't it?
Yes, poor mining was the third least liked activity — only (old-style) FW and incursions were worse. Even PI scored higher.

Quote:
Does not really make EvE a pvp game.
No, the PvP-centric nature of the game makes it a PvP game.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
How exactly did they get this information for their chart?
Listen to the presentation and he'll tell you. Would you like to make a case for it being an unrepresentative sample? What would you base that on?
Frying Doom
#85 - 2012-12-07 21:50:00 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Just because there is a statistics chart stating that such and such a percentage of players are involved in PvP doesn't mean they actually "like" to PvP.
As luck would have it, it's not that kind of chart. Instead, it's a chart over what people like to do.

PvP tops the list, enjoyed by some 75% of the players.

Quote:
Just saying...those numbers are obviously skewed.
In what why and why is it obvious?

How exactly did they get this information for their chart? Did they take a forced poll of all the players? No...I never filled out any such poll. That would be the only way they can get that information from every single player. Otherwise all they can do is extrapolate the information based on what players are actively doing in the game. That information would likely be incorrect since players do stuff they don't like to in EVE. I hate mining, I hate PI and I hate scanning and PvE but guess what? I do all of them when I have to which is quite often unfortunately.

If the information is taken from a poll, which again is the only way they could get that information legitimately, then I can guarantee you that most players likely didn't bother. Especially the casual High Sec bears who hate PvP.

Yes they have different charts for what is liked and what is done.

75% like PvP (that answered the survey)
26% Don't like mining (that answered the survey)

but 41% of people do missions making it the most popular activity.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#86 - 2012-12-07 21:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes poor old mining was only liked by 74% 52% of the players.
Maths is hard, isn't it?
Yes, poor mining was the third least liked activity — only (old-style) FW and incursions were worse. Even PI scored higher.

Quote:
Does not really make EvE a pvp game.
No, the PvP-centric nature of the game makes it a PvP game.


Yes it must be

Percentage means out of 100

so 26% don't like mining what does that leave

While the 75% for pvp includes a huge band of people that somewhat like PvP

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#87 - 2012-12-07 21:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
I declare my self the CSM of all "CareBears". Bow before your new leader to advocate your rights before CCP. No longer will you be insulted and slandered. The PVPers will recognize your infinite and immutable force of good. We like to build up the Eve universe into a profit engine while the knuckledragging pvpers have no idea they are biting the hands that feeds them.

Yes we feed them only scraps. and they beg for more.

Comrade, you must first prove your loyalty to the proveldtariat and opposition to Bumpism, Gankism, and all other forms of reactionary repression.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2012-12-07 21:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes it must be
So let's do some addition together.
What is 20+32?

Quote:
so 26% don't like mining what does that leave
52% that don't like it, as shown by the chart. Oh darn, I spoiled the answer. Try not reading this line until you've answered the line above.

Anyway, I'm sorry that the reality as told by the players does not correspond with what you want it to be. The fact remains: PvP is the most liked activity, enjoyed by 75% of the players. Mining is the third least liked — only 52% — being beaten by such maligned activities as PI.
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#89 - 2012-12-07 22:01:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes it must be
So let's do some addition together.
What is 20+32?

Quote:
so 26% don't like mining what does that leave
52% that don't like it, as shown by the chart. Oh darn, I spoiled the answer. Try not reading this line until you've answered the line above.

Anyway, I'm sorry that the reality as told by the players does not correspond with what you want it to be. The fact remains: PvP is the most liked activity, enjoyed by 75% of the players. Mining is the third least liked — only 52% — being beaten by such maligned activities as PI.


Do you have a job? Or is all this argumentative action billable at your place of employment?
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-12-07 22:01:30 UTC
My point being, if the information on that chart was taken from a survey then it is flawed information if you are trying to compare it to all of the players in EVE.

Most players don't visit the forums, don't care to read the devblogs and don't take surveys when asked to by CCP. Most of the players that feel that way are not involved with Null Sec and don't care for PvP at all.

A survey taken and filled mostly by players that enjoy PvP is going to reflect just that.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#91 - 2012-12-07 22:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rodtrik wrote:
Do you have a job?
Yes. At 23.03 on a Friday, I don't have to worry about it for another 57 hours.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
My point being, if the information on that chart was taken from a survey then it is flawed information if you are trying to compare it to all of the players in EVE.
In what way? Why is the sample not representative?

Quote:
Most players don't visit the forums, don't care to read the devblogs and don't take surveys when asked to by CCP.
It had nothing to do with forums or devblogs, though. So that just leaves the survey sample. What's wrong with it?

Quote:
A survey taken and filled mostly by players that enjoy PvP is going to reflect just that.
…and you can provide some reasoning why people who enjoy PvP are systematically overrepresented in the groups surveyed, I take it?
Frying Doom
#92 - 2012-12-07 22:03:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes it must be
So let's do some addition together.
What is 20+32?

Quote:
so 26% don't like mining what does that leave
52% that don't like it, as shown by the chart. Oh darn, I spoiled the answer. Try not reading this line until you've answered the line above.

Anyway, I'm sorry that the reality as told by the players does not correspond with what you want it to be. The fact remains: PvP is the most liked activity, enjoyed by 75% of the players. Mining is the third least liked — only 52% — being beaten by such maligned activities as PI.

Yes and by those statistics EvE is a mission running game as most people actually do that.

It says PvP is the highest liked followed by Null sec, I wonder what types of players are most likely to answer a survey.

What a part of the community answered is not as compelling as what the players actually do.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rhaetic
Black Ice Consortium
#93 - 2012-12-07 22:09:44 UTC
Chalk it up to me being a recently-returned player who was only around for about a year before, but I don't understand the problem here.

There is no reason why there can't be nice things to do across the entire spectrum of security levels.

In fact, you would think that there would be specific reasons to go to various places. As an example, right now there is little reason to go to Low Sec space because you don't have the safety of High Sec or the profit margin of Null Sec.

Incursions are an example of the kinds of things that work well in High Sec without really taking anything away from Null Sec players. It's not like something was taken away from Null Sec players for this to happen.

You also have players (like me) who enjoy many aspects of the game across the security spectrum, and I bet that there are other people like me as well.

This doesn't have to be an "Us vs. Them" argument.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#94 - 2012-12-07 22:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes and by those statistics EvE is a mission running game as most people actually do that.
Yes? And? The reason is explained in the presentation.

Quote:
It says PvP is the highest liked followed by Null sec, I wonder what types of players are most likely to answer a survey.
EVE players, most likely, since it falls reasonably close to what might expect based on other statistics. As mentioned elsewhere, even a conservative estimate would put the highsec-only part of the playerbase at only 33%, and even among those, there are bound to be those who enjoy the metagame and drama that 0.0 creates.

Quote:
What a part of the community answered is not as compelling as what the players actually do.
Well, as luck would have it, the former isn't really presented, so there are no distracting bits.
Frying Doom
#95 - 2012-12-07 22:50:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes and by those statistics EvE is a mission running game as most people actually do that.
Yes? And? The reason is explained in the presentation.

Quote:
It says PvP is the highest liked followed by Null sec, I wonder what types of players are most likely to answer a survey.
EVE players, most likely, since it falls reasonably close to what might expect based on other statistics. As mentioned elsewhere, even a conservative estimate would put the highsec-only part of the playerbase at only 33%, and even among those, there are bound to be those who enjoy the metagame and drama that 0.0 creates.

Quote:
What a part of the community answered is not as compelling as what the players actually do.
Well, as luck would have it, the former isn't really presented, so there are no distracting bits.

Oh your wild 33% statistic again, if that was even close to true Null would not be so empty. Nor would most of the people you meet in hi-sec be against going to Null.

Why dont you just claim everyone in the game is actually a Null sec alt, it would make about as much sense as that wild guess.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-12-07 22:54:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Oh your wild 33% statistic again
…and again, it's not particularly wild. It's well within the realm of reason and possbility.

Quote:
Nor would most of the people you meet in hi-sec be against going to Null.
Most of the people I meet in highsec aren't against going to null.

Quote:
Why dont you just claim everyone in the game is actually a Null sec alt
Because it wouldn't make nearly as much sense as an estimate based on known statistics and averaging over informal polls.
Frying Doom
#97 - 2012-12-07 22:58:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Oh your wild 33% statistic again
…and again, it's not particularly wild. It's well within the realm of reason and possbility.

Quote:
Nor would most of the people you meet in hi-sec be against going to Null.
Most of the people I meet in highsec aren't against going to null.

Quote:
Why dont you just claim everyone in the game is actually a Null sec alt
Because it wouldn't make nearly as much sense as an estimate based on known statistics and averaging over informal polls.

Lol

Do you actually believe that?

Or is that just a tactic you use on the forums...


Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2012-12-07 22:58:20 UTC
IIshira wrote:

Yes I know Eve is a mostly PVP game so please don't attempt to troll or derail the thread with comments about we need to remove highsec etc.... I do both PVE and PVP (on separate pilots) and enjoy both aspects of Eve.

I'm just asking if any of the CSM represent the small highsec PVE corps rather than big nullsec alliances like Goons etc.

person who received the most votes of the current CSM is part of a 295-man non 0.0 alliance
there are no goons on the current CSM

hth
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#99 - 2012-12-07 23:03:16 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Do you actually believe that?
I have no reason not to.
Frying Doom
#100 - 2012-12-07 23:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tippia wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Do you actually believe that?
I have no reason not to.

Now I know the problem you are actually that delusional.

Now I may not understand the answer being it will be a delusional one but

Can you then explain why Null was not higher on the graph of what people like to do according to the survey if 66% of people are actually Null residences?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!