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CCP, you are taking away the meaning of the (Wanted) sign!

First post First post
Author
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-12-07 17:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Vixen Soul wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Vixen Soul wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Wumpscuut Embryodead wrote:
You=everyone. there is no roleplay. sanbox isn't sandbox when you are funnel'd into a potentional for-profit person because you be seen in a chat. but this isn't limited to being bountied "only because you exist in a chat", it also applies to the fact that a large part of the free will of this game is gone now. if someone even knows that you exist, then suddenly you have these consequences on you. This changes the open world nature of the game and frankly I'm surprised no one brought these basic things up at your meetings.


We're well aware of the consequences, they're entirely intended. It's not that no one brought those things up, it's that you and I fundamentally disagree on how this feature should work, which is completely fine.


Right. There is, indeed a disagrement on how the feature should work. Clearly the playerbase isn't seeing this system in the way you had intended. Is this what you intended? Retribution of the Trolls expansion? Clearly some changes need to be made.

Don't say playerbase.

I do not share your view, as do what seems most people here.

The only problem is that some people have some sort of strange pop culture definition of the word "wanted".
To much Dog or something.


Yes, because in the world you live in Wanted doesn't have criminal or high profile connotations to it. You're a Goon. You jump on the bandwagon. I imagine if enough of your friends start not liking the system, you will be right with them.

No it doesn't.

You can redefine the word when the want ads in my local newspaper are all people seeking fellon.

Wanted has nothing to do with criminal activety, and bounties are not historically used for the capture of criminals.
Companies still use bounties to recruit new employees, they call it an incentive instead.

Not even every person wanted by the law is a criminal.


PS: Thanks for implying I don't have a mind of my own.
Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#102 - 2012-12-07 17:52:04 UTC
All neg sec status says is that you PVP in low sec. Lived in lowsec and had a -10 at one point, then lived in 0.0, wormholes and highsec, was still blowing people up. My PVP habits didnt change, but i stopped getting sec status penalties for doing it as it was outside empire or using old war and loot aggro to get into fights.

People that never leave highsec or never leave 0.0 are not going to have low sec could all be +5 doesnt mean they wont scam, grief, blow you up, smack talk or just be a pain in the arse. And now you can put a bounty on them like you should have been able to all along.

The thing with everyone putting bounties on people is new and a novelty so it will die off in a few weeks. So it will end up with people only putting bounties on people that they dont like, which is what they are for.

Besides half of the old bounties were put on by the person with the bounty since you had to pod kill then to claim it and outside of being slow or 0.0 its hard to get a pod.

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube

Vixen Soul
Perkone
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-12-07 17:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vixen Soul
Okay. So we have several arguments.

1. The wanted system is bad because it devalues the meaning of Wanted.
2. The wanted system is good because it allows players to punish others even if it also allows trolling becsaue the trolling will eventually get boring, and they will stop.
3. The wanted system is good and the people who think Wanted has negative criminal connotation to it are crazy.
4. The wanted system is good and we are all b words.


I disagree with most of the arguments but I guess it is possible that trolling will get hard, and after a couple months, the bounty system will begin being used what it's made for (punishment to thy enemies).

I'd still like to see a change, but I think you have a point that maybe it will change itself. I'm skeptical if trolls ever actually get tired of trolling though, but I guess if CCP makes no changes, we will see.

This thread is getting a bit repetitive. People just posting to read themselves post (what?), so I'm going to let them continue that and bow out of this thread. Shocked
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#104 - 2012-12-07 18:05:24 UTC
Eve isn't completely evil. Its not necessary that you be evil in it.

What eve is, is essentially uncontrolled. Except for the worst excesses of human behavior, and the limitations of game mechanics, there is nothing stopping how we interact.

Last night, while we were on a roam, we took some time for no other reason than whimsy to target up -and then rep- a target. Why did we do this? Because we felt like it.

Hell, lets get back to your Goon obsession. Goons have every reason to hate me maybe worse than they do you. I'm a roleplayer. I spend my time in game pretending to be a Sansha's Nation loyalist (and doing a good job at it). We pick our targets based on roleplay consideration. We interact with people in character except in a few specific instances.

We still play the game, however. We don't demand that people leave us alone to do our thing. When people insult us in local for being RPers, we deal with it, and then usually go about our business of blowing them up or getting blown up by them. Some of our guys mine and do industry as their main thing, and they deal with it all the same.

So when I hear people like you coming into the forums and bitching that someone is doing mean things to them, I laugh, and I laugh heartilly, because you still haven't learned that the way to stop the bully in the absence of any authority figure is to punch the bully harder than he punches you.

Get over it. Start playing the game.
Vixen Soul
Perkone
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-12-07 18:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vixen Soul
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Eve isn't completely evil. Its not necessary that you be evil in it.

What eve is, is essentially uncontrolled. Except for the worst excesses of human behavior, and the limitations of game mechanics, there is nothing stopping how we interact.

Last night, while we were on a roam, we took some time for no other reason than whimsy to target up -and then rep- a target. Why did we do this? Because we felt like it.

Hell, lets get back to your Goon obsession. Goons have every reason to hate me maybe worse than they do you. I'm a roleplayer. I spend my time in game pretending to be a Sansha's Nation loyalist (and doing a good job at it). We pick our targets based on roleplay consideration. We interact with people in character except in a few specific instances.

We still play the game, however. We don't demand that people leave us alone to do our thing. When people insult us in local for being RPers, we deal with it, and then usually go about our business of blowing them up or getting blown up by them. Some of our guys mine and do industry as their main thing, and they deal with it all the same.

So when I hear people like you coming into the forums and bitching that someone is doing mean things to them, I laugh, and I laugh heartilly, because you still haven't learned that the way to stop the bully in the absence of any authority figure is to punch the bully harder than he punches you.

Get over it. Start playing the game.


Are you kidding? I create websites in this game and charge 10-20b isk per website.

I'm writing that I got a bounty of 100k on me. You think me putting a 1b ISK on them is going to change anything in this game? Punching the bully harder is wrong. You are wrong.

Also, I don't have an obsession with goons. In fact, this last post is the only post I've EVER mentioned them in on this forum. Yes, I think they are a bunch of bandwagon noobs who join just to join the biggest group, but I could care less about them. Why is it that everyone I meet with a bunch of likes do nothing on the forums but play devils advocate, troll, and suck up to eachother. You guys need to realize that your little forum community isnt going to get you any further in life or make your parents any prouder of you.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#106 - 2012-12-07 18:11:10 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Eve isn't completely evil. Its not necessary that you be evil in it.

What eve is, is essentially uncontrolled. Except for the worst excesses of human behavior, and the limitations of game mechanics, there is nothing stopping how we interact.

Last night, while we were on a roam, we took some time for no other reason than whimsy to target up -and then rep- a target. Why did we do this? Because we felt like it.

Hell, lets get back to your Goon obsession. Goons have every reason to hate me maybe worse than they do you. I'm a roleplayer. I spend my time in game pretending to be a Sansha's Nation loyalist (and doing a good job at it). We pick our targets based on roleplay consideration. We interact with people in character except in a few specific instances.

We still play the game, however. We don't demand that people leave us alone to do our thing. When people insult us in local for being RPers, we deal with it, and then usually go about our business of blowing them up or getting blown up by them. Some of our guys mine and do industry as their main thing, and they deal with it all the same.

So when I hear people like you coming into the forums and bitching that someone is doing mean things to them, I laugh, and I laugh heartilly, because you still haven't learned that the way to stop the bully in the absence of any authority figure is to punch the bully harder than he punches you.

Get over it. Start playing the game.


Are you kidding? I create websites in this game and charge 10-20b isk per website.

I'm writing that I got a bounty of 100k on me. You think me putting a 1b ISK on them is going to change anything in this game? Punching the bully harder is wrong. You are wrong.

Also, I don't have an obsession with goons. In fact, this last post is the only post I've EVER mentioned them in on this forum. Yes, I think they are a bunch of bandwagon noobs who join just to join the biggest group, but I could care less about them.



That post was directed at Krixtal, not you.
Gotch Urarse
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#107 - 2012-12-07 18:14:29 UTC
Andski wrote:
In-game consequences for meta-game or out-of-game actions are not a problem.


^this

I'm so glad I found a game/community that allows this level of immersion. The bounties only sweeten the deal, however you wish to define the terms associated with the system.

I think of it this way: I pay, plex or cash, to fly spaceships my way and I get a whole other meta-game "for free" that simply doesn't exist anywhere else.
Sable Lowell
The 20th Legion
#108 - 2012-12-07 18:15:28 UTC
I too find it quite annoying that within a couple days of the expansion release almost everyone i see has a "Wanted" tag on their portrait. It's pretty annoying. At least give us the option of not displaying the Wanted tags locally.
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#109 - 2012-12-07 18:16:02 UTC
*Agrees with OP*
Methelic Mahyisti
Doomheim
#110 - 2012-12-07 18:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Methelic Mahyisti
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.


Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So stupid


How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.




You clearly don't understand what 'wanted' means.

Wanted persons are criminals to the state. An industrialist is not a dangerous criminal other people shouldn't let in for a cup of tea.

Then call it something else like 'Bountied' what what do I know.

There's just no reason as to how a little miner in a Venture should have a huge red WANTED sign across their profile picture, that is ridiculous'


Also, imo it should all be underground and not advertised publicly.. People are not wanted by CONCORD - > but actually by other players. It's like a hitman system. You don't go about putting that in the news paper do you
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#111 - 2012-12-07 18:24:27 UTC
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.


Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So stupid


How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.




You clearly don't understand what 'wanted' means.

Wanted persons are criminals to the state. An industrialist is not a dangerous criminal.

Then call it something else like 'Bountied' what what do I know.

There's just no reason as to how a little miner in a Venture should have a huge red WANTED sign across their profile picture, that is ridiculous'


Also, imo it should all be underground and not advertised publicly.. People are not wanted by CONCORD - > but actually by other players. It's like a hitman system. You don't go about putting that in the news paper do you


You do when you're a capsuleer, and by lore immune to the vast majority of all prosecution.
Methelic Mahyisti
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-12-07 18:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Methelic Mahyisti
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.


Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So stupid


How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.




You clearly don't understand what 'wanted' means.

Wanted persons are criminals to the state. An industrialist is not a dangerous criminal.

Then call it something else like 'Bountied' what what do I know.

There's just no reason as to how a little miner in a Venture should have a huge red WANTED sign across their profile picture, that is ridiculous'


Also, imo it should all be underground and not advertised publicly.. People are not wanted by CONCORD - > but actually by other players. It's like a hitman system. You don't go about putting that in the news paper do you


You do when you're a capsuleer, and by lore immune to the vast majority of all prosecution.



tell me the difference of killing someone or paying another person to do it

yeah exactly, it's the same thing and concord should intervene accordingly

it shouldn't be as public as it is and a miner should not run around with qa huge red WANTED sign in their head. it's utterly stupid
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#113 - 2012-12-07 18:26:39 UTC
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.


Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So stupid


How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.




You clearly don't understand what 'wanted' means.

Wanted persons are criminals to the state. An industrialist is not a dangerous criminal.

Then call it something else like 'Bountied' what what do I know.

There's just no reason as to how a little miner in a Venture should have a huge red WANTED sign across their profile picture, that is ridiculous'


Also, imo it should all be underground and not advertised publicly.. People are not wanted by CONCORD - > but actually by other players. It's like a hitman system. You don't go about putting that in the news paper do you


You do when you're a capsuleer, and by lore immune to the vast majority of all prosecution.



tell me the difference of killing someone or paying another person to do it

yeah exactly, it's the same thing and concord should intervene accordingly

it shouldn't be as public as it is and a miner should not run around with qa huge red WANTED sign in their head. it's utterly stupid


CONCORD already allows you to pay to kill someone. Happy to help.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#114 - 2012-12-07 18:31:53 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Vixen Soul wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Wumpscuut Embryodead wrote:
You=everyone. there is no roleplay. sanbox isn't sandbox when you are funnel'd into a potentional for-profit person because you be seen in a chat. but this isn't limited to being bountied "only because you exist in a chat", it also applies to the fact that a large part of the free will of this game is gone now. if someone even knows that you exist, then suddenly you have these consequences on you. This changes the open world nature of the game and frankly I'm surprised no one brought these basic things up at your meetings.


We're well aware of the consequences, they're entirely intended. It's not that no one brought those things up, it's that you and I fundamentally disagree on how this feature should work, which is completely fine.


Right. There is, indeed a disagrement on how the feature should work. Clearly the playerbase isn't seeing this system in the way you had intended. Is this what you intended? Retribution of the Trolls expansion? Clearly some changes need to be made.


Do you speak for the whole playerbase?

80% of everyone I've talked to is pretty happy with this, and I have a very wide circle of contacts.


Most of the people I've spoken with don't like it.

Camon, why would they like it? You literally took "Wanted" and threw it out the window in terms of connotation and what it means. 100k bounty means absolutely nothing. It means nothing to the person who paid the bounty. It means nothing to the person who has it. It means nothing to the person who receives the reward. (yay, 20k!). All it means is a big ugly WANTED sign that gouges into my fantasy world of having a (good) player.


So, you are saying that Han Solo, Luke Skywalker and company are bad people?

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#115 - 2012-12-07 18:32:44 UTC
If I decide to bounty a miner, it should be made available to every single person who looks at him, and at that point they can make the decision as to whether or not it's worth it to gank him, just like I had to make the decision as to whether it was worth, say, 35 million ISK to me to have that miner removed, just as that miner had to make the decision to undock in an Exhumer rather than a Mining Barge.

Choices, all the way down.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#116 - 2012-12-07 18:35:46 UTC
Hey CCP, is there any way our Forum avatar displays could also display the bounty too?

Just asking.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#117 - 2012-12-07 18:40:43 UTC
I've been really tempted to put bounties on freighter pilots just to reward the goons ganking them some more and help remind people that even though you have a safety button now doesnt mean you are safe

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube

Mag's
Azn Empire
#118 - 2012-12-07 18:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
You clearly don't understand what 'wanted' means.

Wanted persons are criminals to the state. An industrialist is not a dangerous criminal other people shouldn't let in for a cup of tea.

Then call it something else like 'Bountied' what what do I know.

There's just no reason as to how a little miner in a Venture should have a huge red WANTED sign across their profile picture, that is ridiculous'


Also, imo it should all be underground and not advertised publicly.. People are not wanted by CONCORD - > but actually by other players. It's like a hitman system. You don't go about putting that in the news paper do you
Wanted means exactly that, wanted. It's irrelevant if you have a high standing with any NPC faction, as this is and always has been a player driven mechanic.

They are wanted, because someone has deemed them wanted and they have placed a bounty on their head to tell all the player base this is the case.

That little miner just so happened to mine a roid someone was after and that meant bounty.
Or that little miner it just so happens, to be constantly undercutting someone with their minerals and that meant bounty.

There is always a reason, just obviously not the reasons you want them to be. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#119 - 2012-12-07 18:46:39 UTC
I suppose it's pointless to point out the pointed fact that a Wanted sign in the past has had no more meaning or indication of criminal behavior, or of an individuals moral or ethical standing than it does in EVE.

Governments can be corrupt and evil, just as much as anything and sometimes the wanted sign is on the person who is of noble intent and moral focus, while the government or office that placed it there is a vile and despicable one wreaking of villainy.

This is hardly unheard of; just look at the old west.


..anyway, I think you're over reacting more than a little. It's a big sign posted on you, and maybe it should be toned down a little, but otherwise it is of little import. Sure, players may go "Ahh!" and run away initially, but once it's sunk in of how little importance it is, they'll get over it.

Lost your Fuel Block customers over it? This would be the people who own a POS in or around your system who either didn't log in or up and moved their POS? ..or was it just a bunch of people who often frequented the system that didn't show up.. or, maybe they were the bots that apparently can't operate with the changes in Retribution?

So, what they are potentially doing in fact, is trying to get their bot program fixed sitting on some forum somewhere complaining to a bot maker about how their bots suddenly don't work in EVE?

..sorry, but POS operators are too often bots I think. Been the thing in Hisec in the past to see a bunch of miners chewing on lumps of ice day after day, hour after hour, forever, and their POS the next system over or otherwise nearby.

Now you can bounty miners, and with the cost of a mining ship, it could potentially be more profitable to gank them. What was 20% of 200 Million again? 40 Million? Huzzah!

..seriously, unless you happen to be pasted with a couple billion bounty and fly expensive ships, you have nothing to worry about. Even a Venture is only a million five, which would pay out a measly 200K or so. A Covert Ops could run you up to 20 million, which would make it slightly more profitable at 4 million..

..anyway, it is what it is, stop crying about it. It just makes you look bad. ..and Krixtal, if I didn't know better I'd swear you was trollin'.

making the sign white letters on black and slightly right off-center, of the lower thirds divisision, while being noticably smaller for positive security status folks wold be cool, along with making it a blazon of un-bordered red across criminals, and white on yellow on suspects or outlaws would be a fine modification.

It's not "wanted by the legal authorities"; it's "wanted for something by someone." Don't be so twitchy about it.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#120 - 2012-12-07 18:47:13 UTC
Old bounty system doesnt work, people ***** and whine.

New bounty system does work and people ***** and whine that they have a bounty and dont think they deserve it because they are not (a) highsec ganker (b) lowsec pirate (c) goon

Because we know (a)(b)(c) are the only bad people in EvE

It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube