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Large bounties, pointless.

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Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-12-07 17:12:51 UTC
You may only get 20% of what is destroyed but a higher bounty means that he will have people on his ass for the bounty for that many more kills or that much longer.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-07 17:12:58 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
The obvious solution being, "don't put bounties on Jita alts"

Or are you saying we need WiS PvP? Cool


No,
Just that I think the bounty system would be better if it could have been used to create a profitable gank, through billion ISK high bounties.

Just expressing a difference of opinion really; that primarilly came about after reading the dev blog on the effects of the mining buffs.
Alara IonStorm
#23 - 2012-12-07 17:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Meh I don't see bounties as a big deal.

In PvP Space every who would try to kill you for your bounty is most likely going to try anyway. In Hi Sec I don't see 20% as an incentive to gank simply because there are much more valuable target like un-tanked Industrials full of riches on Auto Pilot instead of calculating pennies with a few Catalysts to pop a Mackinaw and get 25mil spread 3 ways.

The people in the Catalyst eyeing a Mackinaw sure as heck are not doing for 10mil ISK and they sure as heck would be eyeing a Mackinaw without that bounty.

Corp / Alliance Bounties probably would have an effect on who gets war dec's, maybe a large individual one if enough people have them in the Corp. I just don't see Individual Bounties as a deal.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-12-07 17:15:22 UTC
there is no such thing as a perfect, non-exploitable system. I confess, I don't see the point in being able to place a bounty on yourself, but other than that I see a system that actually works, whereas the old one didn't. At all. Not even a little bit, it basically amounted to giving your enemies free money.

So some people are going to abuse it. That's EVE: ignore those sphincters, get on with the game and enjoy getting paid for your pew, that's how I see it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-07 17:19:38 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You may only get 20% of what is destroyed but a higher bounty means that he will have people on his ass for the bounty for that many more kills or that much longer.


Yes, I agree.

However, I don't think that that means as much as it means when you're talking about flying around in high sec if you don't have a killright available on you.

A 1b isk bounty in high sec doesn't mean much more than a 1m isk bounty. They both pay the same, and without a killright you have to suicide gank them.

And as far as actually hunting down someone, is there any more value in hunting down the guy with a 1b bounty over the guy with 500m? In the end you want the guy flying the most value, not the guy with the higher bounty.

You're unlikely to be killing the same guy over and over again. Even if some people aren't smart enough to stay docked with hostiles at their door.

TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-12-07 17:21:48 UTC
You're right, I'd much rather get 20mil for killing someone in a 1bil ish faction BS because the bounty was 20mil.

Rather than getting 200mil because that person had a bounty over 200mil on his head.

If only there were ships worth even more, like a 4bil dreadnaught or a titan or some such thing.

That'd be crazy, such a thing
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#27 - 2012-12-07 17:21:57 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You may only get 20% of what is destroyed but a higher bounty means that he will have people on his ass for the bounty for that many more kills or that much longer.


Yes, I agree.

However, I don't think that that means as much as it means when you're talking about flying around in high sec if you don't have a killright available on you.

A 1b isk bounty in high sec doesn't mean much more than a 1m isk bounty. They both pay the same, and without a killright you have to suicide gank them.

And as far as actually hunting down someone, is there any more value in hunting down the guy with a 1b bounty over the guy with 500m? In the end you want the guy flying the most value, not the guy with the higher bounty.

You're unlikely to be killing the same guy over and over again. Even if some people aren't smart enough to stay docked with hostiles at their door.



Nah. If they have a billion ISK bounty it means that you then count that as potential profit in a wardec. "It will cost me 50 million ISK to make this man a target for a week. From what I know of is flying habits, I can kill X ships Y number of times, I think. Is that worth it?"

Individuals then make that determination.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-12-07 17:22:55 UTC
So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?

We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec!

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-07 17:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Stitcher wrote:
there is no such thing as a perfect, non-exploitable system. I confess, I don't see the point in being able to place a bounty on yourself, but other than that I see a system that actually works, whereas the old one didn't. At all. Not even a little bit, it basically amounted to giving your enemies free money.

So some people are going to abuse it. That's EVE: ignore those sphincters, get on with the game and enjoy getting paid for your pew, that's how I see it.

For now, yes, and I'm not worried about people exploiting anything. I don't care if the top 10 guys are always alts that never undock; CCP can't stop without dirrectly monitorying and removing bounties.

But "use" is to early to be determined. We'll have to see a month from now. I expect the corp stuff will absolutely be used, but whether or not people are going to actively hunt bounties.

And don't forget, if someone's asking you to keep putting bounties on them, there's probably a good reason for it. Or does everyone think that the top bounty hunters aren't going to be guys working together to put a specific name at the top; which is fine with me, I hope it's my stuff they buy to do this.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-12-07 17:28:39 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?

We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec!

No, they don't.

My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff.

Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first.

It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty.
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-12-07 17:29:28 UTC
Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right Blink
Alara IonStorm
#32 - 2012-12-07 17:34:08 UTC
Serptimis wrote:
Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right Blink

I would rather not see every single persons Insurance being voided by someone placing minimum bounties on every person in local. That and losing the ability to place insurance because another mechanic.

Instead I would prefer the entire Insurance mechanic be weeded out in its entirety quick and clean like pulling a band-aid off.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#33 - 2012-12-07 17:34:25 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?

We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec!

No, they don't.

My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff.

Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first.

It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty.


I like other people having a bounty, it makes a nice tasty treat after I blow up their ship.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-12-07 17:41:56 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?

We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec!

No, they don't.

My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff.

Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first.

It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty.


I like other people having a bounty, it makes a nice tasty treat after I blow up their ship.

Pretty much right?

And effectively why low and null have zero consideration in my little rant. I mean, blue squares in my overview stress me out a little. I expect everyone to shoot me, nothings changing.
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#35 - 2012-12-07 17:50:54 UTC
I am pleased to know that the guys I marked will be hunted for a very, very long time Evil

"It's not about the money. It's about sending a message"

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-12-07 17:51:37 UTC
You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.

The bounty system exists so people can get revenge. With the old system, this was impossible because you could simply kill your own alt in a rookie ship to remove the bounty. Now, with the payout system only paying part of the bounty, and only paying based on the value of the loss, the person is going to get blown up multiple times.

Someone has a legitimate bounty, they're taking an even bigger risk every time they undock, especially when out of empire. It doesn't just become a cruise through low sec like you do every day, it becomes that other guy happened to see your bounty and is calling in all his friends. Whatever activities you like to do are constantly being disrupted, because the bounty is so big people just keep killing you. You try to fly cheaper ships to make the payouts less worth it, but that just makes the bounty last longer.

The payout system is just a formalized way of paying someone to take your revenge for you. It's an open contract with everyone in EVE, rather than taking out a specific hit with Noir. or GHSC or whoever. Nobody is going to do it for profit, just like people doing all the other silly little activities in the game to screw over others don't make a profit on it.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-12-07 18:04:44 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.

The bounty system exists so people can get revenge. With the old system, this was impossible because you could simply kill your own alt in a rookie ship to remove the bounty. Now, with the payout system only paying part of the bounty, and only paying based on the value of the loss, the person is going to get blown up multiple times.

Someone has a legitimate bounty, they're taking an even bigger risk every time they undock, especially when out of empire. It doesn't just become a cruise through low sec like you do every day, it becomes that other guy happened to see your bounty and is calling in all his friends. Whatever activities you like to do are constantly being disrupted, because the bounty is so big people just keep killing you. You try to fly cheaper ships to make the payouts less worth it, but that just makes the bounty last longer.

The payout system is just a formalized way of paying someone to take your revenge for you. It's an open contract with everyone in EVE, rather than taking out a specific hit with Noir. or GHSC or whoever. Nobody is going to do it for profit, just like people doing all the other silly little activities in the game to screw over others don't make a profit on it.

I think we probably mostly disagree with the impact that a bounty is going to have on someone in Empire, I don't think that it's going to have much of one at all once the novelty of it has worn off.

Corp bounties, yes.
Personal bounties, no.

It's going to depend on there being enough people flying around with a killright available on them, and I don't think therre's going to be that many.

I'm also not saying I"m right and others are wrong, only that I think it would be a better system if it was possible for multi-BILLION ISK bounties could make a person profitable to kill.

It would give us a means of pushing bakc the amount of afk and bot mining that is now happening as a result of the mining buff.
A couple billion isn't an inconsequential amount of mone; not something you're going to see lots of random people have on them.

After reading the dev blog about the effects of the mining barge and exhumer changes, I'm an even stronger believer that the PLAYERS, all players, need a way to effectively fight back against afk and mining bots. Suicide ganking is obviously not cutting it, and the payout system isn't going to have much impact either.

The bounty sytem could have been the tool to keep in check what exactly what everyone kept saying would happen. To much safety in high sec has an impact on other areas of the game. CCP just released stats that prove it.
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-12-07 18:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ana Fox
Dorian Wylde wrote:
You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.


I think you are wrong.Bounty hunter dont care about your revenge he cares how much your revenge is lucrative for him.Someone will do that for glory but after some time when he loose xy ships he will start to look how to make that more profitable for him.

OP I personally dont like this system cause of trolling usage of this system.But ok my opinion is my only and that dont reflect is this system good or bad.My hope was that this system will bring us one more way of playing,more like new role in EVE,for now is just grief fest and toll cannon Sad.

Maybe if they rise bounty shield on something that is more serious like 20 mil or so it can kick start new role for someone ,this way by spam of wanted so we have more ppl with that is just crap.Some people have so much isk that they can place bounty on every single person in EVE ,that is stupid to I must admit.CCP seems to like that cause omg people are using our new toy we are great ,but is that true?

Quote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:

I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.


Only impact you made is to **** some number of people off ,and to make cheep fun for people that are drowning in rivers of isk, and dont have any to do than to place bounties on people in help chat, that is helping new players more than you ever did .Infact there is some people there that are better than any tutorial in this game ,this was perfect way from your side to say thanks to them on your mature way " ah that is no big deal for lolz".I dont mind if all my pilots get banner on their picture ,but it make me sad when I see you gave some people option to punish one part of EVE that is giving some help to new bros.

I am not butthurt cause of this but it would be nice to have real bounty hunters in EVE.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#39 - 2012-12-07 18:32:47 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.


Your speculating just like everyone else, but obviously you forgot how your playerbase works, the guy you replied to has a valid point

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Ginger Barbarella
#40 - 2012-12-07 18:33:27 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.


Just curious, but what exactly do you see as a point in a system where some idiot with more isk than sense drops bounties on anyone talking in the Help Chat? If you think that's "kewl" in the CCP design meetings, you guys really need to hire some adults to supervise the playground. This "new and improved" system is starting to unravel just like your T3 BC plan did.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac