Warfare & Tactics

well that's working as anticipated. lmk how you eventually adapt, assuming you just don't jump in. would like to know.

Pay me the isk in lost ships and I'll tell you.

Fair enough that it may fix a problem that no longer exists. I just don't see it being an issue or change how I get fights in or around plex's tbh.

The only change it may affect is a slightly more brawling focussed wz until people realise that is doesn't change the way in which actual fights occur.

So what has changed from before then?

2manno

Any sort of real time notification system would be preferable. Yours would be great. With the new expansion there are allot of fights but after a bit things will get stagnant again.

I generally fly brawler ships. To deal with kiters I will either use a td, mwd, or now the drones on the destroyer. I still lose ships due being kited but I have my chances. Unless they have a loki boost. The range ogbs give kiting ships makes it pretty much impossible to catch. I don't jump into condors or hookbills though they are ready made kiters and immune to the td.

Otherwise I usually just fly relatively cheap stuff and jump in.

i've lost only 1x as a defender. i had a jaguar into half armor with my hookbill, when ~5 others jumped in to help.

that new camera angle is fascinating /o\

I always used to assume that the person in plex was right on the button so the fits i use to enter a plex haven't necessarilly changed. (they changed due to the changes in ships)

But when i was in the plex orbitting the button and I saw several people coming I used stay on the button, align to something away from warp in, and maybe get a fight if they didn't all come at once. Now I have to warp off if I see more than one on short scan because if they come, I know they are all going to jump right on top of me.


So for me its not a matter of win or lose more its a matter of getting fewer good fights.

I have jumped onto other people fighting and turned those fights into ganks. So yay more killmails, but I do prefer the old system were we had more good fights.

I struggle with the ''button changes are a nerf to kiting/fighting outnumbered'' argument in practice.

Its the exact same tactics and skill set post the change - Some ship fitting skills, some EVE ship knowledge, a tiny bit of maths, some manual piloting/situational awareness - you just start closer together which in my experience means targets are actually even more likely to haphazardly activate gate/chase after you than ever before.

See some tackle you can kill incoming amongst a blob to your plex gate? > Rejoice > Put a burn or two in > Hope they chase you > Profit.

Brawlers win 99.99% of the time against LR hulls if they get to dictate range, with me so far?

Before;
Brawlers essentially had to leave button in order to get that advantage as weapon range did not allow (except in rare cases) for damage much less tackle to be applied on incoming ships. This left a reasonably wide opening to get some LR ships inside regardless of what/who is inside at time of activation.
LR ships inside could easily be countered by a minimal amount of eWar by brawlers coming making offensive action using LR ships a rather defeatist approach given that defender had docking rights for easy refitting.

Now;
Brawlers are on button and on warp-in without having to move an inch. Every ship entering is subject to the maximum amount of dps afforded by any given hull size/type and due to grid load, coming out of warp and other minute delays will likely be taking said damage before they can even initiate counter-locks .. LR ships are not able to survive entry at all.
LR ships are still easily countered by a minimal amount of eWar and defender still has a huge advantage by being able to refit at will .. "but defender can just use LR ships so they are still valid!!!?!?!" I can hear you think .. errr, no. Because eWar is being revamped and we now have t1 logistics in all sizes, offensive gangs will be packing eWar in all slots not used for prop/tackle (as has been the norm since FW started really .. just more oomph with revamp) and since LR is easily countered by ...

In short: Making button synonymous with warp-in, which is for all intents and purposes what we are talking about , has effectively removed the remaining sliver of a niche LR fits had left in the eWar heavy environ of FW.

PS: Imagine what happens when/if CCP finds a solution to make active tanking competitive with buffers which are the norm for brawlers (LR generally has no tank regardless) .. dps on button/warp-in ramps up as logistics are replaced with guns making the very real problem insurmountable .. thus, better to address it sooner rather than later.

As a primarily nano pilot - this change has resulted in more deaths for me.

But in the interests of balance, this makes sense. This gives brawling ships a chance, and levels the playing field so that first person in running the button has a good optimal starting range, for both brawling and nano ships.