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The Damage Control needs to be passive, now more than ever.

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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2012-12-07 13:10:50 UTC
Ok, page 10 and I still cannot see the problem.

DC takes too much cap? Activating it is too hard? What's the issue?

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#182 - 2012-12-07 13:12:45 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
You mean other than the need to activate it every jump because the only reason you jump is to fight?
In other words, you don't have to activate it every jump. You only have to activate it situationally when you're preparing for a fight -- a situation that is completely decoupled from jumps and undocks.

Quote:
"Position or status with regard to conditions and circumstances."
"of, relating to, or appropriate to a situation"
Good. So, in other words, DCs are situational. Depending on the conditions and circumstances, you may or may not want to (or need to) turn it on. Depending on the situation, it may or may not be appropriate to activate it.

Quote:
By definition, there needs to be a situation where it is inappropriate.
By definition, any situation where it's not appropriate - i.e. it's the default situation.

Quote:
Every module I can think of in this game has an advantage to being either off or on. On, it does it's job, off it will save you cap, or in speed terms, let you align faster. The damage Control has no advantage to being off. Ever
...and yet, there is a point to it being possible to turn it off.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
You have to turn the DCU on every time you uncloak to enter combat. You have to turn the DCU on every time you jump through a gate or portal or cyno and enter combat.... There are many times you have to turn this module on when "entering" combat.
Now note what the defining characteristic is of those situations when you should turn it on and what is not. The key factor is exactly that: when entering combat. The key factor is not "every time", or "when jumping" or "uncloaking" or "undocking". The DC is a situational, as are indeed all the modules in EVE.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#183 - 2012-12-07 13:13:12 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

That's your problem, twisting words. You're twisting a lot of words in this thread, and inventing facts. I live in Australia, where we have this thing called the Sun, and when the Sun is up, everyone can see just fine, so headlights aren't necessary, nor are they mandatory. So my analogy is still relevant. Just because your laws are different, doesn't mean they are smart.

Okay, which fact did I invent? Is it not a fact that there is no reason not to have the DC on?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#184 - 2012-12-07 13:15:01 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If you start taking damage before you can get your DC on, then you fail at EVE.

What are smartbombs?

You mean those things that you can predict and avoid if you don't fail at EVE?

Quote:
Is it not a fact that there is no reason not to have the DC on?
Nope.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#185 - 2012-12-07 13:16:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Now note what the defining characteristic is of those situations when you should turn it on and what is not. The key factor is exactly that: when entering combat. The key factor is not "every time", or "when jumping" or "uncloaking" or "undocking". The DC is a situational, as are indeed all the modules in EVE.


Situational is not simply "it can be on or off, so it's situational".
It's situational if you want it to be on in one situation and off in another. You still have not given any reason for why you would want it off.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#186 - 2012-12-07 13:17:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
You have to turn the DCU on every time you uncloak to enter combat. You have to turn the DCU on every time you jump through a gate or portal or cyno and enter combat.... There are many times you have to turn this module on when "entering" combat.
Now note what the defining characteristic is of those situations when you should turn it on and what is not. The key factor is exactly that: when entering combat. The key factor is not "every time", or "when jumping" or "uncloaking" or "undocking". The DC is a situational, as are indeed all the modules in EVE.


I agree.... and given how powerful the DCU is, I thinking increasing it's cap usage is reasonable...

Additionally, if the 30 second duration is inhibiting people from logging off (because they are in the habbit of turning it on), I'm in favor of reducing it's duration to something like 5 seconds or such. This not only alleviates any "duration" issues, but makes it more susceptible to neuts, which is fairly interesting...
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#187 - 2012-12-07 13:17:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:

You mean those things that you can predict and avoid if you don't fail at EVE?

Surely no competent eve player ever has been killed by smartboms.

Quote:
Nope.

Oh wow, stunning fact right here folks. Tippia said "Nope", how can we refute this evidence?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2012-12-07 13:18:17 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Doddy wrote:

any time you are not taking damage .....

It's still more appropriate to keep it on in case you will take damage. This is Eve you know....


If you start taking damage before you can get your DC on, then you fail at EVE.

What are smartbombs?


What are bookmarks?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#189 - 2012-12-07 13:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Ok, page 10 and I still cannot see the problem.

DC takes too much cap? Activating it is too hard? What's the issue?

The issue is that there is no reason not to have the DC active, it already almost behaves like a passive module, except it has to be activated to circumvent a coding issue, and it's annoying to having to activate it every time you jump between systems.

Edit: In b4 Tippia "you don't have to activate it for every jump". Well no, you also don't HAVE TO activate your guns when fighting, or HAVE TO fit a tank at all. Bad argument.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#190 - 2012-12-07 13:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hannott Thanos wrote:
]Situational is not simply "it can be on or off, so it's situational".
...and as luck would have it, no-one is claiming anything of the kind.

It's situational because there are situations where it's useful and situations where it's not.

Quote:
You still have not given any reason for why you would want it off.
...aside from the ones you've provided, you mean? Also, you keep ignoring the fact that there is a point to being able to turn it off. You are not the only one with any say in the matter, and there are plenty of reasons for people to want it to turn off.

Quote:
Oh wow, stunning fact right here folks. Tippia said "Nope", how can we refute this evidence?
It was an answer that suited the claim. You said it was; I said it wasn't. If you want me to refute something, offer something to refute.

Quote:
The issue is that there is no reason not to have the DC active
...aside from the vast difference in defensive power it creates -- a reason you keep ignoring. So no, that's not the issue. The issue is that you keep doing meaningless work that makes no difference and want the game to handle it for you rather than make the decision yourself.

On the other hand, there's very little in the way of reasons to make it passive, or indeed to change it in any way.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-12-07 13:21:26 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:

Surely no competent eve player ever has been killed by smartboms.


*Puts hands up*

I've actually avoided three of them traversing low sec by utilising bookmarked checkpoints established 200-400 km at random off the stargate but still on grid. You can have smartbombs etc on your overview, so you can literally see them from miles away.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#192 - 2012-12-07 13:25:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
]Situational is not simply "it can be on or off, so it's situational".
...and as luck would have it, no-one is claiming anything of the kind.

It's situational because there are situations where it's useful and situations where it's not.

Quote:
You still have not given any reason for why you would want it off.
...aside from the ones you've provided, you mean? Also, you keep ignoring the fact that there is a point to being able to turn it off. You are not the only one with any say in the matter, and there are plenty of reasons for people to want it to turn off.

And what point is that? Neuts? Give me a break, when did that ever happen, and if it ever did, you were **** out of luck anyway, and a passive DC would not win you the fight.

There are no situations where it is useful not to have it active. Oh except when trying to safe log-off, which happens(in my opinion) to be another reason to make it passive.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#193 - 2012-12-07 13:30:06 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
And what point is that? Neuts? Give me a break, when did that ever happen
Oh, pretty much all the time.

Quote:
There are no situations where it is useful not to have it active.
...aside from when you don't need it, and aside from when it's useful to try to turn it off.

Quote:
Oh except when trying to safe log-off, which happens(in my opinion) to be another reason to make it passive.
Nah, that's a good reason to keep it active: to ensure that safe log-off is something you do with care. If all you want to do is log off, closing the client works just fine.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#194 - 2012-12-07 13:32:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
There are no situations where it is useful not to have it active.
...aside from when you don't need it, and aside from when it's useful to try to turn it off.

What? I don't even... "It is useful to not have it active when you don't need it". Are you serious? Are your capacitor skills THAT bad, you have to save 1 cap every 30 sec?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#195 - 2012-12-07 13:38:46 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
What? I don't even... "It is useful to not have it active when you don't need it". Are you serious?
If it is of no use when turned on, then no, it's not useful to have it turned on. This seems like quite the tautology so I'm not entirely sure why this is such a shocking revelation to you?
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#196 - 2012-12-07 13:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
And what point is that? Neuts? Give me a break, when did that ever happen
Oh, pretty much all the time.


Really man, quote the whole sentence, don't go all Texas sharpshooter. Congrats on winning an argument on a false basis.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#197 - 2012-12-07 13:41:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
What? I don't even... "It is useful to not have it active when you don't need it". Are you serious?
If it is of no use when turned on, then no, it's not useful to have it turned on. This seems like quite the tautology so I'm not entirely sure why this is such a shocking revelation to you?

Then why do you online your shield extender before undocking? It's of no use before you get shot at. Or why no making a "raise the shield" feature? Activating passive modules for 1 cap seems to give you so much satisfaction.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#198 - 2012-12-07 13:47:46 UTC
it should be like a cloak, active with no cycle time or cap use.

completely passive is a bit...(there are times when you want to look more vulnerable then you actually are)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#199 - 2012-12-07 13:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Then why do you online your shield extender before undocking?
Because of the massive cap cost if I try to do it after I've undocked.

Quote:
Activating passive modules for 1 cap seems to give you so much satisfaction.
No, but turning them off sure does, and since they they're easy enough to ignore until you really need them, it's not like turning them on is a huge chore.

Quote:
Really man, quote the whole sentence
I quoted the full question that I was answering.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#200 - 2012-12-07 13:58:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No, but turning them off sure does, and since they they're easy enough to ignore until you really need them, it's not like turning them on is a huge chore.

Now this we can agree on. It is not a huge chore at all actually.
Neither is switching security every time you log on.
Nor is opening ships and inventory when you dock.
Or resizing the info window when you open it.
Or having to drag all modules from a wreck to your cargo (pre loot all).
Or activating every ungrouped gun (pre grouping).

All these things, and a lot of others too, are not at all huge chores, agree? It's still a small pain to deal with all these little things.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}