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Few weeks after Retribution.

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Anders Shepard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-12-07 11:24:39 UTC
No negative rep butan so give the OP a bounty.

The system works!
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#122 - 2012-12-07 11:26:40 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


and what has happened? people have bounties.. and what? are hisec people being ganked because of it?


After all my posts, you still don't understand why I am openly debating with you, don't you?
Ok, patience is a virtue, so let's try this again.

A bounty: a premium or reward (taken from dictionary.com)
This we can both agree on. But now, what is the meaning of the word?

A bounty is given when an action has taken place that merits it. Right?
Now let's add this to your current version of the bounty hunter system. There are lots of people who use the system the way you and I hope it works out. Some people annoy other people and now, they can be targetted by adding a nice bounty on his or her head and the aim is that this person will lose a ship or two from that point forward. This is exactly working as intended and I congratulate you on achieving this goal with the new system.

But now the practical implementation if you will. Currently, the minimum bounty to be put on individual players is 100k ISK. This amount is roughly equal to a simple Lvl 1 distribution mission (payout+bonus). As such, the value of a bounty like this is virtually nil. Yet, a bounty is still used here. However, now the meaning of a bounty is completely void. The "bounty" is added, but without the true intention that this person is going to be targetted across New Eden. The initiator of the bounty did not add the bounty on a target because he or she annoyed him, it is the direct opposite: The person that added the bounty does this to annoy the person receiving it.

Now, this is why the current system is meaningless. It works for what it is intended to do. Congratulations. But it is also used for the direct opposite purpose. And this is very hard to combat as people will always try to curb corners or otherwise, use a concept in a different way you intended. The only aspect you needed to do to make sure that the bounty hunter system holds true to its word and meaning is if you added a timer on a bounty. In due time a bounty would deteriorate. Therefore, people putting meaningless bounties left and right would no longer get a kick out of it as they know it's not going to last forever. Then the novelty of adding meaningless bounties will die down. But in its curent form, everyone will eventually end up with one sooner or later. After all, what is the true value of 100k ISK?

I hope you now finally understand why I am debating with you. It's not about what you did. You did a very good job, after all. But it's about what you didn't do. It's about taking a concept, but forgetting to add boundaries to ensure the true meaning of the concept remains intact.




TBH, my opinion is that the 100k ISK bounty REALLY REALLY is no big deal. After a while, people are most likely to no bother with miniscule bounties for random reasons as the novelty has worn off. On the other hand, someone who is a **** in general could have multiple 100k ISK bounties placed on him over time, meaning he gradually becomes a more worthwhile target for bounty hunters.

However, as for the current random 100k ISK 'bountied' characters, I reckon there will be little to no effect in the long run, or even once the dust has settled.

I dunno much about the bounty hunting profession, but I would imagine the thought process of a bounty hunter would go like this:
1. Is the target a legal target (if in hi-sec)?
2. Is the bounty worth the sec hit?
3. Yes to both, or at least to 2
4. Shoot
5. ???
6. Profit

I seriously don't imagine bounty hunters worth their salt would waste time and sec status on newbie pilots with 100k ISK bounties, in high sec, in a frigate.

Adding arbitrary boundaries does not make bounties any more significant. If I had a bounty of 200m ISK placed on me, making me a somewhat viable target, then I could very easily remain docked and play on alts until the bounty expired, however long it takes.



Its not about destroying ships or increase amount of hunted people its not about increase chance for being ganked like CCP Puncturis mention-sugests, its only about giving a mark - stamp to every EvE character, giving to him a clone look, same look, its like caling eveyone a ex criminal or somthing like this, its like caled every EvE player scientist, pick what you want.

EvE isn't game, its style of living.
Shayden
#123 - 2012-12-07 11:28:09 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:

Hey can you add different bounty wanted posters. Maybe like a 3 tier style. A small one for under 10 mil and medium size one for 10 mil- 300 mil or so. and a big poster for 300 mil +

Just sort of a bit more splash to the whole wanted thing and a bit easier on the guy looking for most wanted types.

Maybe even a top ten count listed right on the wanted splash sign itself. I am thinking a number one wanted sign and number two etc. So when you see the guy and look at his wanted poster you know right off the bat who is in the top ten.

Kinda add a bit more immersion into the whole bounty thing.


Yes please, i think this is essiential what most ppl are feeling that isnt involved in pvp, why do we get stamped as the same guys that clearly HAS deserved the bounties.

Cut the "small fish" from the big fish :)

Now if you'll pls excuse me ill take my 350k bounty and adapt my new image of being one BAD ASS MF while i.. err mine some roids :D
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-12-07 11:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Merdaneth wrote:
xpl0de wrote:
Honestly I'm not a big fan of the new system. Its pretty annoying to see everyone and their mother with "wanted" splashed across their face. Atleast before u knew if someone had a bounty they did something wrong (usually), now theres no difference. The wanted splash should be reserved for personal bounties only.


This.

'Wanted' implies some of criminal behaviour. This is simply not the case with private bounties. Also, the big wanted sign becomes rather meaningless if over 50% of the population has the sign.

A big red bar also seriously messed up many portraits.

In what world does "wanted" indicate criminal behaviour.

"Wanted" only means you're wanted, it has nothing to do with WHY.
"Bounty" just means a reward is paid to any individual that can collect something someone else "wants"

Wanted and bounty have never meant explicity a reward for capturing a "wanted fellon".

Words are defined.
Everywhere but the EVE forums apparently.


High sec obviously needs more danger. It's residence have gotten so risk averse that they're afraid of a word.


Edit:
Just thought a really easy way for some of you to come to terms with the reality the rest of us live in. Go grab a newspaper, I'm sure even EU country newspapers have them as well.

Now turn the ******* WANT Ads.
Goodness, all those people offering bounties for things that are wanted.
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#125 - 2012-12-07 11:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarvos Telesto
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Merdaneth wrote:
xpl0de wrote:
Honestly I'm not a big fan of the new system. Its pretty annoying to see everyone and their mother with "wanted" splashed across their face. Atleast before u knew if someone had a bounty they did something wrong (usually), now theres no difference. The wanted splash should be reserved for personal bounties only.


This.

'Wanted' implies some of criminal behaviour. This is simply not the case with private bounties. Also, the big wanted sign becomes rather meaningless if over 50% of the population has the sign.

A big red bar also seriously messed up many portraits.

In what world does "wanted" indicate criminal behaviour.

"Wanted" only means you're wanted, it has nothing to do with WHY.
"Bounty" just means a reward is paid to any individual that can collect something someone else "wants"

Wanted and bounty have never meant explicity a reward for capturing a "wanted fellon".

Words are defined.
Everywhere but the EVE forums apparently.


High sec obviously needs more danger. It's residence have gotten so risk averse that they're afraid of a word.


I agree with you that Hi sec need more danger but bounty on everyone wont change this, because its only a stamp that make people exact same look but nothing more, and for some reason this just giving a wired non natural EvE world look in general.

Spam of skulls in overview wont increase chance for ship loss, it only give a wired look, imagine you enter any game where all players in serwer looks like others, that all, Its only about how stupid this look. Here we go...

EvE isn't game, its style of living.
Shayden
#126 - 2012-12-07 12:10:53 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

In what world does "wanted" indicate criminal behaviour.

"Wanted" only means you're wanted, it has nothing to do with WHY.
"Bounty" just means a reward is paid to any individual that can collect something someone else "wants"

Wanted and bounty have never meant explicity a reward for capturing a "wanted fellon".

Words are defined.
Everywhere but the EVE forums apparently.


Whaaat? What planet are you from lol :)

Throughout history a WANTED label across a mug shot has always meant the person has done something against the law and the authorities are in search of finding this individual to bring him to justice. Just like the old western WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE posters. This usually coupled together with a reward which made bounty hunting a profession to this day (though they prefer to be called bail enforcement agents today)

Are you really saying that you look at ppls wanted signs and think "oh perhaps this guy is wanted for helping out with a mining job"

Lol
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#127 - 2012-12-07 12:12:26 UTC
I'm pretty sure the bounty system is just a way for CCP to get ISK out of the market for a bit. Either way it affects absolutely nobody since bounties mean nothing if you aren't getting killed. The only worry to this would be encouraging suicide ganking, but as they've capped it to 20% of the loss, this is unlikely to be an issue unless you are flying a very delicate but very expensive ship, though I'm sure it will have a small affect on hulkageddon.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2012-12-07 12:41:54 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm pretty sure the bounty system is just a way for CCP to get ISK out of the market for a bit. Either way it affects absolutely nobody since bounties mean nothing if you aren't getting killed. The only worry to this would be encouraging suicide ganking, but as they've capped it to 20% of the loss, this is unlikely to be an issue unless you are flying a very delicate but very expensive ship, though I'm sure it will have a small affect on hulkageddon.


that is certainly true.
And as stated by many before...Hulks/Macks do not belong to Highsec anyway. Now their presence will be limited to very few (in fact the buissnes report states that hulks are pretty much eradicated from High sec already...)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#129 - 2012-12-07 12:47:44 UTC
Shayden wrote:
Throughout history a WANTED label across a mug shot has always meant the person has done something against the law and the authorities are in search of finding this individual to bring him to justice.
...and throughout history, the criminal element has done the same against pesky do-gooders that need to be disposed of.

Neither "wanted" or "bounty" means that the guy on the other end is a criminal -- it just means that he has done something that the person on this end doesn't like and that he's willing to pay a bit of cash to have the problem "taken care" of.

The distinction between evil pirate and heroic privateer is just a matter of perspective and of what side of the conflict you're on. Same thing here.
Vale NPC
Doomheim
#130 - 2012-12-07 14:50:47 UTC
One thing they should consider is the effect this will have on EvE as a community. None of you can change the fact that some people do not want a bounty on their character. Sorry, but it's true. Will these types of people now be afraid to engage in any social activity as it's likely to get them a bounty from someone doing it "for the lulz"?
One could make the argument that those people are not wanted in EvE, and thats fine, but subs pay for developers.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#131 - 2012-12-07 15:12:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
xpl0de wrote:
Tarvos Telesto wrote:

Bounty on everyone (skulls everywhere on overview) unrealistic and wired look...

Qft. Bounties on everyone is a terribad idea and now there is no difference between the criminals and all the miner, trader, and industrialist players. The only ones rooting for the new splash are all the carebear scrubs who cant go out and earn a real bounty on their own. They should atleast reinstate the security status minimum.


The whole point of bounties is to inflict revenge or punishment when the law won't
O



Revenge and punishment involve actually having done something to earn such distinction.

This is too out of control and exploitable, whether CCP thinks so or not.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
snake pies
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#132 - 2012-12-07 15:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: snake pies
relax, it's still new and that's why bounties are being given left and right, soon people will forget about it and only the high-sec carebears will use it when they get suicide-attacked.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#133 - 2012-12-07 16:02:52 UTC
Singulis Pacifica wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


and what has happened? people have bounties.. and what? are hisec people being ganked because of it?


After all my posts, you still don't understand why I am openly debating with you, don't you?
Ok, patience is a virtue, so let's try this again.

A bounty: a premium or reward (taken from dictionary.com)
This we can both agree on. But now, what is the meaning of the word?

A bounty is given when an action has taken place that merits it. Right?
Now let's add this to your current version of the bounty hunter system. There are lots of people who use the system the way you and I hope it works out. Some people annoy other people and now, they can be targetted by adding a nice bounty on his or her head and the aim is that this person will lose a ship or two from that point forward. This is exactly working as intended and I congratulate you on achieving this goal with the new system.

But now the practical implementation if you will. Currently, the minimum bounty to be put on individual players is 100k ISK. This amount is roughly equal to a simple Lvl 1 distribution mission (payout+bonus). As such, the value of a bounty like this is virtually nil. Yet, a bounty is still used here. However, now the meaning of a bounty is completely void. The "bounty" is added, but without the true intention that this person is going to be targetted across New Eden. The initiator of the bounty did not add the bounty on a target because he or she annoyed him, it is the direct opposite: The person that added the bounty does this to annoy the person receiving it.

Now, this is why the current system is meaningless. It works for what it is intended to do. Congratulations. But it is also used for the direct opposite purpose. And this is very hard to combat as people will always try to cut corners or otherwise, use a concept in a different way you intended. The only aspect you needed to do to make sure that the bounty hunter system holds true to its word and meaning is if you added a timer on a bounty. In due time a bounty would deteriorate. Therefore, people putting meaningless bounties left and right would no longer get a kick out of it as they know it's not going to last forever. Then the novelty of adding meaningless bounties will die down. But in its current form, everyone will eventually end up with one sooner or later. After all, what is the true value of 100k ISK?

I hope you now finally understand why I am debating with you. It's not about what you did. You did a very good job, after all. But it's about what you didn't do. It's about taking a concept, but forgetting to add boundaries to ensure the true meaning of the concept remains intact.


The problem with this arguement is that youre assuming something other than what players do should give the bounty a meaning, whats wrong with player actions being the thing making having a sufficiently large bounty mean something.

To illustrate what I mean

Im not going to kill someone purely because he has a tiny bounty on him, its not worth my time or my ship loss if i have to suicide him. I might kill him for an unrelated reason and go 'oh extra isk, thats nice' but that has nothing to do with his bounty.

As the bounty increases now I start to see worth in going out of my way a bit but suiciding is still largely not worth it. It now depends solely on his actions as to wether or not its worth me striking at him.

Once we hit high level bounties (im talking into the hundreds of millions) and now we're into worthwhile territory. Its worth pursuing him specifically if his actions allow it and the cost/return ration for a suicide gank gets a big ol boot in my favour.
This sort of level also gives the option of calling in allies because theres now enough bounty to give a decent share in a group kill.

Increase it more and at this sort of level I start actively targeting him no matter where he is. i bring more friends, better ganking ships and bigger chase fleets until i either hit the limits of me and my allies resources or I kill the guy enough that his bounty is no longer worth this level of investment in hunting him.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

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