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The real issues with drones isn't just about PvE.

Author
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Refugees
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#1 - 2012-12-07 04:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Acac Sunflyier
Drones have had major issues for a long long time. They suck in a multitude of areas such as:

  • Drone management- Ever try to organize a carrier with around 100 drones of different types into groups? Gotta be un-docked for that too!
  • Drone Usage- It is significantly harder to use drones. The window is a pain to use!
  • Drone Performance- The amarr drones have no use at all. Caldari for long range sentry, Gallente for damage, minmitar for speed.
  • Drones Stats- They have a surprisingly large signature and are weak. One medium smart bomb can cripple a drone ship/fleet. (In a lag fest it can be hard to see that too)
  • Drone Damage- A drone has to fly all the way over to that ship to hit anything. By the time a drone starts doing anything (except sentries) the target or you are almost dead
  • Drone Repair- In order to fix a drone you either gotta dock , remote rep, or destroy a drone. Why can we not use nanite repair paste to fix a drone while it's in our hold?



The fact is drones are significantly harder to use. They cannot be overheated like a gun, they can be destroyed and there's a very limited number that can be fielded by a ship (While better for the servers, the fact is a Dominix losses more damage when it can only field 5 drones instead of 10), they cannot be repaired when broken, and the only real way to see them being hurt is if the window shows an update to their shields or visually.

Prior to the change drones have only had 2 consistent and effective uses; structure bashing and player versus enviroment combat.

1) Structure bashing- Drones make killing pos guns, structures (except poses when the shields are up), caps, and super caps much easier. In a contest over a tech moon, where does the FC have everybody put their drones while they call targets?

2) PvE- Except wormhole sleeper ai and sometimes Incursions, drones were pretty good for PvE; excluding belt ratting. They'd kill tackle frigs and slowly chip away at a random target in a room of a mission/complex.

As of now, only structure bashing remains the primary role for drones now. Yes they do help with killing off the tackle interceptor (unless your drakes 5 drones die or the ship is too fast). But as far as gang warfare, it's not an effective weapon platform. Those 800 dps ishtars/gilas are using heavy drones (the slowest and biggest movable drone in existence) or sentries which tend to get left behind in a mobile fight which kills drone ships considering how big sentries are in a drone hold.

C.C.P. approaches drone fixes as a politician will approach clean coal. It's a hot button issue that scores them points when they talk about it at Fan Fest, but nothing really gets done. They've given out drone damage amplifiers but those really feel like a token drake module. Didn't C.C.P. promise removing the drone management window entirely in favor of something that goes on the same buttons as your guns/points/dc2?

I really think drones are a bigger issue than is given discussion. I think it's time for C.C.P. to sit down and decide what to do with drones in a comprehensive manner and present their plan to the community or remove drones all together; adjusting ships to compensate as need be.

TL;DR: Drones need a complete overhaul.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-12-07 04:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Amarr drones are actually useful, so you should probably drop that bullet point

EDIT: Also the thing about drone augmentation mods being split across multiple things and gun mods being wrapped up into one is also wrong, so I'd drop that too.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-12-07 04:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful

How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?

EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-12-07 04:42:44 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful

How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?

EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).


Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better.

There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-12-07 04:46:16 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful

How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?

EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).


Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better.

There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off.

Mmyes, ganking defenseless PvE ships in a small area of Eve is a totally acceptable niche for a quarter of all combat drones in Eve.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#6 - 2012-12-07 04:47:33 UTC
Build a bridge and get over it.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Refugees
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#7 - 2012-12-07 04:48:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Acac Sunflyier
Grath Telkin wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful

How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?

EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).


Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better.

There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off.


Just going to counter the energy vamp drones with a small tod bit about how the vamp drones receive diminishing returns the more are used. So, to that end, using a ship with a utility slot will get a much more effective neut/drain than the drones version.

Proof under Electronic Warfare Drones from Eve University
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-12-07 04:49:42 UTC
Why not have them at least match Minmatar drones in damage, so for ships with two flights (Ishkur?) they can deploy an anti-armor, or an anti-shield set?

There's also the issue of the Amarr drones simply not fitting into the progression from light/fast drones to heavy/slow drones.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-12-07 04:59:35 UTC
FluffyDice wrote:
Build a bridge and get over it.


I don't have an answer either.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#10 - 2012-12-07 07:08:29 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful, so you should probably drop that bullet point.


Actually, I agree with her. Unless you're fighting rogue drones, Ammar drones are pretty useless. There isn't anything else with enough of a EM vulnerability to make up for the difference between the pathetic Ammar drone DPS and the awesome Gallente drone DPS.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Refugees
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#11 - 2012-12-07 10:29:51 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful, so you should probably drop that bullet point.


Actually, I agree with her. Unless you're fighting rogue drones, Ammar drones are pretty useless. There isn't anything else with enough of a EM vulnerability to make up for the difference between the pathetic Ammar drone DPS and the awesome Gallente drone DPS.


The only two things you'd want from the move drones is either speed or damage. Sentries would probably be damage at range so either caldari or minmitar; Gallente if you know you're going to have a good warp in.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-07 10:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful

How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?

EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).


Is there a non-PvE situation where carrier pilot would use Caldari/Gallente fighters over Amarr/Minmatar?

Oh, yeah and Amarr sentries are worse than others. Roll
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#13 - 2012-12-07 10:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Louis deGuerre
CCP :

* Releases officer drone modules Twisted

* Makes drones useless for PVE Cry

trollface.jpg Roll
Doddy
Excidium.
#14 - 2012-12-07 10:43:03 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Amarr drones are actually useful

How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?

EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).


Hunting guristas ratters, but mainly amarr t2 frigies. Still amarr/caldari are clearly very limited, i personally think they should be (much) tougher while having the same sort of combat effectiveness they do now. That way playershave a reason to use them.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-12-07 10:49:09 UTC
Grath, you must be trolling. There's no situation that a Valkrye or Warrior wouldn't put an Amarr drone to shame. I don't know very many people who focus on explosive damage as their primary tank. Not to mention how many hulls are weak to it.

Good post. However, it belongs in Features and Ideas.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Methelic Mahyisti
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-12-07 11:11:51 UTC
I agree with OP.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-07 11:17:23 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Drone Repair- In order to fix a drone you either gotta dock , remote rep, or destroy a drone. Why can we not use nanite repair paste to fix a drone while it's in our hold?


That one would actually be cool, or maybe something like a drone repair module...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Refugees
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#18 - 2012-12-07 18:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Acac Sunflyier
Zagdul wrote:

Good post. However, it belongs in Features and Ideas.



I disagree, I'm outlining everything wrong with drones. Not suggesting a fix. Basically I'm whining! But I'd also like to think CCP looks at this post and sees things and decides to act. Even if it was just the nanite repair paste bit.
Dave Stark
#19 - 2012-12-07 18:43:59 UTC
a little fix that would be nice; having drone groups as drag and droppable "modules" so that when you activate the "module" it launches that group of drones, and if they are already launched the button makes them attack/mine/salvage/repair etc and then right click to dock them like you right click to reload your turrets/asb etc.
i think that'd go a long way to making drones slightly more intuitive.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-07 18:50:36 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
C.C.P. approaches drone fixes as a politician will approach clean coal. It's a hot button issue that scores them points when they talk about it at Fan Fest, but nothing really gets done. They've given out drone damage amplifiers but those really feel like a token drake module. Didn't C.C.P. promise removing the drone management window entirely in favor of something that goes on the same buttons as your guns/points/dc2?


They didn't really promise anything (they never do) and the image they showed was a mock-up. That is, just an artificially assembled image, not even a prototype. The way I see it, the approach to drone issues in EVE is as follows:

Drone users: Fix drones!
Non-drone users: Drones are fine! L2P!
CCP: There's drones in EVE?!
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