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The Damage Control needs to be passive, now more than ever.

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-12-06 22:32:25 UTC
Spectre Wraith wrote:
Afk haulers who wish to use blockade runners complaining they can't use DCU while active ITT.

So because it could be used on afk haulers in high sec the rest of the players actively playing the game have to endure pointless extra clicking?

So many of you have no imagination. At all.
Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
#142 - 2012-12-06 22:35:19 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Spectre Wraith wrote:
Afk haulers who wish to use blockade runners complaining they can't use DCU while active ITT.

So because it could be used on afk haulers in high sec the rest of the players actively playing the game have to endure pointless extra clicking?

So many of you have no imagination. At all.



For the amount of utility it has, it should be active. Passive mods generally tend to have lower given bonuses then actives.

Dear lord, please help me deal with the insufferable....
Eliza Naskingar
Doomheim
#143 - 2012-12-06 23:00:07 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Tomb wrote:
we changed the functionality of damage controls

Anyone remember the exact specifics of what the previous version was?

It appears that multiple damage controls were being used and it was deemed over powered. Thus they decided to limit it to only allow one to be fit and were forced to make it an active module to achieve that goal. But in order to function as close as possible to a passive module they gave it the long cycle time and using 1 unit of capacitor.

Or maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. Anyone have any previous stats and functionality? TUXFOOOOOOOOOORD!


Wondering that myself since i have been playing since 2003 and can't remember it ever being different, but then maybe i just wasn't using them cos they were crap.

oh boy story time!

I don't have any hard stats on hand but I do remember the old DC

They increased the hitpoints of modules fitted to your ship by a percentage

Yes, you read that right, they increased the structure hitpoints of modules. Not your ship. The modules fitted to your ship.
This was the only thing they did.

This was before the ability to overload your modules, where something like that might have been useful, and the only situation where your modules started taking random damage was when your ship was deep in hull. They were basically the single most useless category of items in the game, fitting a full rack of civilian guns would have done your ship more good than fitting any number of damage controls to your lows.

The only productive thing people did with them is stuff them in a reprocessing plant after looting them from NPCs, and the poor bastards who "won" a T2 bpo for that piece of garbage probably sold them for peanuts before the changes that made them worth something

I hope you all enjoyed that mostly irrelevant history lesson as much as I did writing it
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#144 - 2012-12-07 00:07:25 UTC
Posting in a stealth buff freighters thread.

Think about it Lol

It would be too brazen to ask for passive DC after freighters get fitting slots. Very clever. Bear
Zedik
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2012-12-07 05:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Zedik
Eliza Naskingar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Tomb wrote:
we changed the functionality of damage controls

Anyone remember the exact specifics of what the previous version was?

It appears that multiple damage controls were being used and it was deemed over powered. Thus they decided to limit it to only allow one to be fit and were forced to make it an active module to achieve that goal. But in order to function as close as possible to a passive module they gave it the long cycle time and using 1 unit of capacitor.

Or maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. Anyone have any previous stats and functionality? TUXFOOOOOOOOOORD!


Wondering that myself since i have been playing since 2003 and can't remember it ever being different, but then maybe i just wasn't using them cos they were crap.

oh boy story time!

I don't have any hard stats on hand but I do remember the old DC

They increased the hitpoints of modules fitted to your ship by a percentage

Yes, you read that right, they increased the structure hitpoints of modules. Not your ship. The modules fitted to your ship.
This was the only thing they did.

This was before the ability to overload your modules, where something like that might have been useful, and the only situation where your modules started taking random damage was when your ship was deep in hull. They were basically the single most useless category of items in the game, fitting a full rack of civilian guns would have done your ship more good than fitting any number of damage controls to your lows.

The only productive thing people did with them is stuff them in a reprocessing plant after looting them from NPCs, and the poor bastards who "won" a T2 bpo for that piece of garbage probably sold them for peanuts before the changes that made them worth something

I hope you all enjoyed that mostly irrelevant history lesson as much as I did writing it

Thank you, I did enjoy it. Got a good laugh. I remember those days (main is inactive atm). When I would get some good spawn out in 0.0, I would joke with my corpmates that I either got a damage control II or a auto-targeting array II BPO as a drop. Would usually get the response "Oh, nice! Hold on, what did you say? You got what? That's freaking useless!"

Ah, good times, good times.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#146 - 2012-12-07 07:01:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
For one, you don't have to push a button every time you sneeze.
…a problem that doesn't exist to begin with.

Well, if you say it, then it must be true. This is not a fact, it's your opinion, and it brings nothing to this discussion really.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#147 - 2012-12-07 07:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hannott Thanos wrote:
This is not a fact, it's your opinion, and it brings nothing to this discussion really.
…except that it is indeed a fact. You do not have to push a button every time you sneeze. Not only because the EVE UI isn't sneeze-sensitive, but also because nothing in the game requires you to keep pushing that button.

You need to turn your DC on at one point and one point only: when it's about to get ugly. This is not the same as “always”. Thus, you don't need to push any buttons at every opportunity. You don't have to activate your DC any more often than you do, say, a missile launcher.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#148 - 2012-12-07 07:17:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
This is not a fact, it's your opinion, and it brings nothing to this discussion really.
…except that it is indeed a fact. You do not have to push a button every time you sneeze. Not only because the EVE UI isn't sneeze-sensitive, but also because nothing in the game requires you to keep pushing that button.

You need to turn your DC on at one point and one point only: when it's about to get ugly. This is not the same as “always”. Thus, you don't need to push any buttons at every opportunity. You don't have to activate your DC any more often than you do, say, a missile launcher.

You don't leave your guns on and forget about them until the fight is over. I'm going to assume you don't ONLY do 1v1? I don't think I ever forgot to activate it before a fight, but I remember a lot of times thinking "why do I need to push this button?". It's not like it gives the game any depth or meaning. Have you seen the Lost series. They had this kind of button they had to push every now and then to keep **** from hitting the fan. I bet they loved it.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2012-12-07 08:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Let me point it out for you all:
The pity is most of you have no clue how important a DC is on small ships like FR and DE and most of you have no clue what heated dual small neuts can cause.

Hard Fact is a small heated neut cycles every 5.1s, with 2 shifted neuts that means every 2.55s you will be drained of cap that effectively shuts an active DC down on most FR or DE sooner or later.
Combat in small ships is very often a game of cap. Cap managment in small ships is very important and the decision you make is a do or die because many FR have only cap for about ~1:30min with all mods active, very few have more.

A passive DC is a very bad idea for small ship combat where it matters the most.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#150 - 2012-12-07 09:08:29 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Let me point it out for you all:
The pity is most of you have no clue how important a DC is on small ships like FR and DE and most of you have no clue what heated dual small neuts can cause.

Hard Fact is a small heated neut cycles every 5.1s, with 2 shifted neuts that means every 2.55s you will be drained of cap that effectively shuts an active DC down on most FR or DE sooner or later.
Combat in small ships is very often a game of cap. Cap managment in small ships is very important and the decision you make is a do or die because many FR have only cap for about ~1:30min with all mods active, very few have more.

A passive DC is a very bad idea for small ship combat where it matters the most.

If you don't have cap to activate your dc, you also don't have speed, tackle, active tank and probably no guns either. So it makes little difference to be honest.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-12-07 09:18:46 UTC
Passive damage control wouldn't make much difference to most AFK haulers. Expect the Orca. It would be a huge, huge buff to AFK orcas.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#152 - 2012-12-07 09:31:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
This is not a fact, it's your opinion, and it brings nothing to this discussion really.
…except that it is indeed a fact. You do not have to push a button every time you sneeze. Not only because the EVE UI isn't sneeze-sensitive, but also because nothing in the game requires you to keep pushing that button.

Except jumping. And undocking. Quite rare situations yeah? It's a module you either have or don't. When you roam you always activate the DC because you never know when you are jumped. Maybe we should have to "raise shields" every time we drop out of warp too, it's only one click that needs to be done when you suspect danger.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2012-12-07 10:01:31 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
This is not a fact, it's your opinion, and it brings nothing to this discussion really.
…except that it is indeed a fact. You do not have to push a button every time you sneeze. Not only because the EVE UI isn't sneeze-sensitive, but also because nothing in the game requires you to keep pushing that button.

Except jumping. And undocking. Quite rare situations yeah? It's a module you either have or don't. When you roam you always activate the DC because you never know when you are jumped. Maybe we should have to "raise shields" every time we drop out of warp too, it's only one click that needs to be done when you suspect danger.


See, this is why gamers get called "fat and lazy". Are you really complaining about having to click the mouse too much?

Come on, give it a rest.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Doddy
Excidium.
#154 - 2012-12-07 10:02:20 UTC
Eliza Naskingar wrote:
[quote=Doddy][quote=Marlona Sky]
The only productive thing people did with them is stuff them in a reprocessing plant after looting them from NPCs, and the poor bastards who "won" a T2 bpo for that piece of garbage probably sold them for peanuts before the changes that made them worth something


The t2 damage control is much newer, they were introduced after the change at the same time as t2 expanders etc. Don't think they ever had a bpo tbh, could be wrong.

They removed the module damage thing at the same time as the damage control change, apparently it was so buggy that it was creating ships that couldn't die but had allmodules destroyed. (i don't remember any of this).
Doddy
Excidium.
#155 - 2012-12-07 10:03:35 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
This is not a fact, it's your opinion, and it brings nothing to this discussion really.
…except that it is indeed a fact. You do not have to push a button every time you sneeze. Not only because the EVE UI isn't sneeze-sensitive, but also because nothing in the game requires you to keep pushing that button.

Except jumping. And undocking. Quite rare situations yeah? It's a module you either have or don't. When you roam you always activate the DC because you never know when you are jumped. Maybe we should have to "raise shields" every time we drop out of warp too, it's only one click that needs to be done when you suspect danger.


So how is it any different from any other mods? If you are that paranoid surely you have to turn on all your hardeners every jump as well?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#156 - 2012-12-07 10:04:43 UTC
Slash Harnet wrote:
I don't really see why it matters one way or another. It would be nice if we could set modules to retain their activation status after a jump, but its really a non-issue.

This is probably the far more relevant point. If I turn a module on, it's sheer bad interface to assume that as soon as I jump, It turns off and I have to turn it on 'again'. This is true for all modules, and would be a much better overall solution.
This benefits roaming null & low sec gangs especially, since their modules are on when they get jumped on the other side of a gate (Blah blah, Scouts, Blah blah Fail gang etc, but it happens fairly regularly for one reason or another). But on the whole simply removes tedium. Docking should still turn modules off for obvious reasons, as should logging off.
It's a simple quality of life improvement, nothing to do with lazyness, just updating Eve to the 21st century with regards to persistance.

(And for everyone whining this request is Lazy, Every jump you should have to reset your safety settings, yes, every jump, it's only a couple of clicks, where is the problem, it's not like people are complaining they have to reset them ONCE PER LOGIN currently or anything like that.)
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#157 - 2012-12-07 10:11:03 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

(And for everyone whining this request is Lazy, Every jump you should have to reset your safety settings, yes, every jump, it's only a couple of clicks, where is the problem, it's not like people are complaining they have to reset them ONCE PER LOGIN currently or anything like that.)

Lol, yeah the shitstorm this has generated is astounding. Lets just remove consistency all across the board. It's ony a click to open inventory, and only a click-drag to resize it. Suddenly, 500 "only one click"s

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Doddy
Excidium.
#158 - 2012-12-07 10:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
The entire mechanics (and backstory) of eve jump gates are based on you being cloaked while jumping. You can't have activate mods while cloaked. You don't necessarily want mods on one side of a gate that you do on the other side in any case (your mwd for example). So really all this "i want my mods to be persistant" stuff is ill thought out laziness. Imagine you got back to gate in a camp and jumped but either had your mwd stuck on so took ages to warp off (and you have a massive sig) on the other side or worse, were not cloaked on jump in an died before even loading.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#159 - 2012-12-07 10:13:23 UTC
Doddy wrote:

So how is it any different from any other mods? If you are that paranoid surely you have to turn on all your hardeners every jump as well?

Hardeners are situational. You don't activate explosive hardeners when fighting Amarr lazorz. Damage Control is however NOT situational. It behaves like a passive module that has to be turned on to circumvent a code issue.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Doddy
Excidium.
#160 - 2012-12-07 10:21:50 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Doddy wrote:

So how is it any different from any other mods? If you are that paranoid surely you have to turn on all your hardeners every jump as well?

Hardeners are situational. You don't activate explosive hardeners when fighting Amarr lazorz. Damage Control is however NOT situational. It behaves like a passive module that has to be turned on to circumvent a code issue.


Seriously? If I am in combat i generally activate all hardeners, especially since any amarr boats tend to have explosive drones, and several have turrets that can put out any damage type. Sure you can save a few cap against a solo zealot, but you want your hardeners on if his friend turns up in a munin anyway. And harping on about what a dev said about a mod 6 years ago when eve was a completely different game doesn't win you any arguments.