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Whoa, no more establishments ever?

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Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-10-22 07:35:02 UTC
Dyner wrote:

Dude, the Scotty clones were hit hardest by the recent patch...you'll find them now working at the local Quafe Bar down in "Brown Sector" (props to those who get the reference).


Ah B5. An example of how life in stations should be.
Leon Razor
Measure Zero
#62 - 2011-10-22 07:36:22 UTC
It seems like rather then focus most people on one game (EVE), they had most people working on overall game infrastructure they could use for all three. I'm guessing most of the people developing the WiS stuff were more closely tied to the WoD teams then the EVE teams. I'm also guessing that the same tech that would run establishments would also run WoD, and by rolling it out bit by bit to EVE, they get a rolling alpha test for WoD. Since the WoD team has been downsized or refocused, it will probably take much longer for the smaller team to get the code for establishments working.

In summary: WoD teams = WiS team, so WoD team smaller but not gone = WiS features extensively delayed, but not cancelled.
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2011-10-22 07:40:59 UTC
Leon Razor wrote:


In summary: WoD teams = WiS team, so WoD team smaller but not gone = WiS features extensively delayed, but not cancelled.


Er you do realise that the WoD team has been cut dramatically.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-10-22 07:50:50 UTC
Leon Razor wrote:
It seems like rather then focus most people on one game (EVE), they had most people working on overall game infrastructure they could use for all three. I'm guessing most of the people developing the WiS stuff were more closely tied to the WoD teams then the EVE teams. I'm also guessing that the same tech that would run establishments would also run WoD, and by rolling it out bit by bit to EVE, they get a rolling alpha test for WoD. Since the WoD team has been downsized or refocused, it will probably take much longer for the smaller team to get the code for establishments working.

In summary: WoD teams = WiS team, so WoD team smaller but not gone = WiS features extensively delayed, but not cancelled.



Actually, it's:

EVE = Dust = WoD

for tech and software used. That's why they could shift WoD's team back to EVE; both used the same stuff. 'Cept Spaceship = Human [WoD]
Leon Razor
Measure Zero
#65 - 2011-10-22 07:57:02 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Leon Razor wrote:


In summary: WoD teams = WiS team, so WoD team smaller but not gone = WiS features extensively delayed, but not cancelled.


Er you do realise that the WoD team has been cut dramatically.


Umm, ok maybe smaller was an understatement. The point is that the progress of WiS is directly linked to that of WoD. Even if there are only 3 guys in a closet working on WoD now, if they ever finish it CCP will probably port it over to EVE at that point. Sounds like everyone on the EVE team is doing FiS now, so WiS is only being worked on indirectly by the tiny WoD team.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2011-10-22 08:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Herping yourDerp wrote:

also
CQ is laggy as hell with just one person on low detail
imagine it with 2 people.... or 30

this http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=925 should be required reading for anyone talking about 30 people Incarna.

At least on the client CarbonIO has been delayed for months, not smart to base a huge part of an expansion (that would be establishments) on a feature that has not fully seen the light of TQ.

Imagine you have all the artwork, game design, coding, ... done and then it turns out that even when bypassing the GIL and setting restrictions on the number of people in one room at a time network performance is just not satisfactory.
What are you going to do? deactivate establishments after release? reduce the tick-rate until the problems go away (ccp, why does my character continue to walk into walls, I told it to go left ages ago?) ? Only allow a certain number of people in establishments total (sucks for the other 99%)?

I hope the FiS focus will give devs the opportunity to work on the tech that is required for a successful WiS for a few more months without immediate release pressure (which only leads ugly hacks).

Then - once the underpinnings are stable - one can talk about developing features on top of them.
C4LYP50
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
#67 - 2011-10-22 08:11:14 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I am glad it is gone. Hopefully we will get some actual meat and potatoes.



This. I couldn't agree more. Proud of the player base for taking such a stand. If they hadn't........we'd have a whole posse of Ranger1's to deal with.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2011-10-22 08:23:02 UTC
Gealbhan wrote:
I hope spinning your ship was worth it because that's all you'll get in future.
He's right about one thing, the community did it to themselves.


Make no mistake, we are happy with the outcome.

Myxx wrote:
Reading it all, I have to say I disagree with that. If they are fully abandoning it, then thats a shame. Time will tell, though.


It is a shame, but only in a convoluted sense. Had they not spent so much time and effort on it, I would have been happier. Considering they have, I don't want it to become another vestigial part of eve, dangling off the edge.

Realistically, eve is in bad shape. We need more flying in space, we need fixes, we need old content updated and iterated on. But once that's fixed, and eve is back on track, I would like to see establishments finalised.

There were promises of overhauls to boosters, and I always thought that having an in station environment would alleviate some of the tedium of being camped or whatever. The pitch was excellent, and I'd like for it to live up to that.

But only once the core of eve is in much better shape.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
White Carnation
SYNDIC Unlimited
#69 - 2011-10-22 08:37:37 UTC
Dyner wrote:
Leon Razor wrote:
It seems like rather then focus most people on one game (EVE), they had most people working on overall game infrastructure they could use for all three. I'm guessing most of the people developing the WiS stuff were more closely tied to the WoD teams then the EVE teams. I'm also guessing that the same tech that would run establishments would also run WoD, and by rolling it out bit by bit to EVE, they get a rolling alpha test for WoD. Since the WoD team has been downsized or refocused, it will probably take much longer for the smaller team to get the code for establishments working.

In summary: WoD teams = WiS team, so WoD team smaller but not gone = WiS features extensively delayed, but not cancelled.



Actually, it's:

EVE = Dust = WoD

for tech and software used. That's why they could shift WoD's team back to EVE; both used the same stuff. 'Cept Spaceship = Human [WoD]



But from the statement, it would appear that the WoD project is, functionally, dead in the Icelandic water. In that case there will be no more WiS. It's dead, people. The CSM have spoken, the null-sec dwellers have spoken, the big alliances have spoken, and CCP, quite reasonably, have listened. Indeed, apart from the recoding that would be necessary, I can see merit in rolling back the entirety of CQ and abandoning WiS altogether. And this from a committed care-bear whho was looking forward to Establishments. A roll-back would free up acres of code-space for the new developements and would erase five months of bug-conflict over the changed parameters.

The question now must be "whither from here" -- and the answer would seem to be clear. A return to what the powerful want -- game-focus and dev-focus on PvP. And, given what is being talked about with the next Expansion nerfing the biggest ships, I suspect we may well be seeing new attack ships, and the system for allowing Player Incursions into hi-sec. No more Sansha incursions (or fewer) and more led by and answering to people like Goons and other gank-teams. Not tto mention the militarisation of Planetary Intercourse, with Customs stations becoming player-owned and therefore vulnerable to attack

The kill boards will roll red with carebear blood; the gutters will flood with carebear tears -- and CCP will have players returning and WoW will tremble.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#70 - 2011-10-22 08:40:20 UTC
Kyoko Sakoda wrote:
Hilmar wrote:
Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear.


How does this read as "no, never"?

A bit like FW, has CCP ever said they completely abandoned it?
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2011-10-22 08:45:13 UTC
White Carnation wrote:
The kill boards will roll red with carebear blood; the gutters will flood with carebear tears -- and CCP will have players returning and WoW will tremble.

In 2012 WoW is going to put the Pokemon franchise out of business, they don't care about EVE.
White Carnation
SYNDIC Unlimited
#72 - 2011-10-22 09:00:45 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
White Carnation wrote:
The kill boards will roll red with carebear blood; the gutters will flood with carebear tears -- and CCP will have players returning and WoW will tremble.

In 2012 WoW is going to put the Pokemon franchise out of business, they don't care about EVE.


Suits me -- let them go to the 5 yr olds to try to recover the haemorrage of PvPers who hear how excellent EvE is/will be when the new regime is in.

And I suspect a number of those now being released will be rehired as the company gears up again, only this time to build bigger better attack ships, and expensive sparklies for carebears to buy and "real men" to blow up.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2011-10-22 10:20:40 UTC
Off topic posts removed.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#74 - 2011-10-22 10:24:00 UTC
I managed to play this game for 5 years without any walking avatars, I'm sure I can handle a few more years if that is what it takes for CCP to get it done right™.

How to win EVE
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2011-10-22 14:43:04 UTC
White Carnation wrote:
[quote=Dyner]


But from the statement, it would appear that the WoD project is, functionally, dead in the Icelandic water. In that case there will be no more WiS. It's dead, people. The CSM have spoken, the null-sec dwellers have spoken, the big alliances have spoken, and CCP, quite reasonably, have listened. Indeed, apart from the recoding that would be necessary, I can see merit in rolling back the entirety of CQ and abandoning WiS altogether. And this from a committed care-bear whho was looking forward to Establishments. A roll-back would free up acres of code-space for the new developements and would erase five months of bug-conflict over the changed parameters.


The reality of the limbo state that WiS finds itself in is, by the time CCP gets back to it, if they get back to it, they'll prolly have to start from scratch because of developments in technologies. Rolling it back might not be a bad idea. But, at this point it serves no purpose other than to deny the community access to the racial CQ's which are developed and ready to deploy.

Don't ban me, bro!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#76 - 2011-10-22 15:25:36 UTC
Dyner wrote:
Leon Razor wrote:
It seems like rather then focus most people on one game (EVE), they had most people working on overall game infrastructure they could use for all three. I'm guessing most of the people developing the WiS stuff were more closely tied to the WoD teams then the EVE teams. I'm also guessing that the same tech that would run establishments would also run WoD, and by rolling it out bit by bit to EVE, they get a rolling alpha test for WoD. Since the WoD team has been downsized or refocused, it will probably take much longer for the smaller team to get the code for establishments working.

In summary: WoD teams = WiS team, so WoD team smaller but not gone = WiS features extensively delayed, but not cancelled.



Actually, it's:

EVE = Dust = WoD

for tech and software used. That's why they could shift WoD's team back to EVE; both used the same stuff. 'Cept Spaceship = Human [WoD]


Yes, they realized that WE realized that Incarna was a Beta test and that we should feel some kinda way about playing a paid Beta

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Mnengli Noiliffe
Doomheim
#77 - 2011-10-22 15:32:18 UTC
lol just another unfinished, abandoned forever feature, although im sure its been said 100 times in this thread already.
Blastier
#78 - 2011-10-22 15:37:52 UTC
Mnengli Noiliffe wrote:
lol just another unfinished, abandoned forever feature, although im sure its been said 100 times in this thread already.



I'm starting to wonder if it's not part of their business model. Except they were hyping 'ambulation' in 2006... this is just cruelty
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-10-22 15:45:13 UTC
Blastier -

If you were looking forward to walking around in stations, then pray tell why did you create an avatar picture with most of you cut off and stuck into a corner...? Was that supposed to be your moment to shine then - you're going to burst out of your cocoon?
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2011-10-22 15:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Norian Lonark
Personally I am very sad to see Incarna end up like this.

I don't think the rage was about Incarna as a concept but rather the nex store, the ridiculous prices, the leaked fearless newsletter, backlash against implementing micro-transactions to get a p2w model and the amount of problems, bugs and unfinished features in the existing FIS content.

I thought Incarna was going to bring a lot of new content such as player owned establishments, bars, poker and mini games, things like tailoring, smuggling etc but what we got was a prison cell with fried your GPU and took away functionality that we already had. A truly dreadful implementation compared to what it could have been (IMO).

I can totally understand the need for CCP to restructure and look forward to the Winter expansion but I do feel that not having WIS content leaves a big gap in the universe and hope that it is revisited and done properly.

Start wide, expand further, and never look back