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A thesis on the solutions and reality of slavery

Author
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#1 - 2012-12-06 02:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Los Muertas
A thesis on the solution of slavery

I am a Nefantar Freeman, not an Ammatar. I feel that this needs to be stated first and foremost before I begin this thesis as many on both sides of the argument will use my heritage against me. The Mir'mulnir people, "people of the serpent" in our tongue, have always been distrusted even before the Day of Darkness by our own race. The reasons for this are varied from tribe to tribe, and while I will not justify or paint a pretty picture of my people in an attempt at revisionist history, what I will say is that we lived in such a manner as befitted our sub-tribe and that we were never renounced by the Elders.

Why we fight


The Minmatar people fight the Amarr for reasons that have been well stated. We have heard the slogans, "We come for our people"..."until the last ones come home"..."until the Six have been made whole". These are the slogans that drive the fighting spirits of many young men and women and the Empyreans that take them into battle. This is the noblest of causes, to fight and die for your people, but I would submit that this is NOT why we fight.

From the earliest days after Maak freed the first of our people we have been plagued by rumors and questions of legitimacy. Many, both within the Republic and without, question if Jovian intervention was at play in this event, suggesting that it was not the spirit of our people which lead to liberation but the musings of an exterior force that was, and many say continues, to empower a race that cannot stand on its own. This feeling rings true even more so because no one can deny that it was the Federation who gave us true legitimacy in our founding and protected a weaker people in the time after the rebellions from our former masters.

In a search for acknowledgment we have turned our backs on what we once were and have gone so far as to proclaim the last true Matari Tribe as outlaws. I am of course speaking of the Thukkar, who live outside the constraints of the Republic and for this have been likened to the Cartels, Blood Raiders and Sanshas Nation. Why, if we "fight for our people", do we turn our back upon those who are the last best "time capsule" of who our people are?

The simplest reason is that the Thukkar lack the acceptance of the galactic community at large and the current main stream Minmatar people desperately need the galaxy at large to affirm that we have the right to exist, that we are important and that for them to say "we believe that you can stand on your own", and this is the reason we fight.

[Continued below]
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#2 - 2012-12-06 02:21:03 UTC
Why they will not free our people
The Amarr, the great enemy, slavers and fanatics. This is how we look at the Amarr, as if they are some great Machiavellian nemesis, always looking to undermine us publically and always waiting with some phantom navy, ready to pounce upon us the moment we are weak, but does anyone with any degree of learning actually believe this?

Let us look upon the modern Empire. The Khanid have turned from the Empire and proclaimed themselves their own independent, although allied, Kingdom. The Gallente surpass the Empire economically in every none artificial aspect (more on that in a moment) and the Caldari have grown into a mighty power that now eclipses the shadow of the Empire.
At one point the Gallente and the Amarr fought a war, a war that many would say still exists to this day but is now fought by proxy states of the Caldari and Minmatar. The only reason this war did not end like all other wars fought by the Empire, i.e. the conquering of the Federation, is that the Federation was every bit the rival economically of the Empire. Amarr military might was, historically speaking, far superior to that of the Federation, however the Federation economy was such that for every ship the Empire fielded the Federation fielded six.

The Imperial hierarchy at the time was such that only nobles and their retainers were permitted to command military vessels, whilst Federation doctrine allowed any man or woman of merit to command. This practice was upheld by the Empire for some ten years until it became clear that all the experienced and entitled people whom were allowed to command were now in short supply and that the military academies needed to open their doors to lesser men, but this was a step taken too late.
After the failed war, the Amarr were quickly dealt another blow to their public image with the Minmatar Rebellions and the establishment of the Republic. It was during this time that the Empire under took several hotly contested actions which flew in the face of what it was to be Amarr.

First they backed the State in such a way that had never been done before by the Amarr. Never before has the Empire helped to create a autonomous satellite nation, and this very act was decried as heresy at the time and even today by religious hard liners within the Empire. Over time this entity which was initially meant to be a proxy war fighter for the Empire, has become the military equal of the Empire and, with the rise of Tibus Heath, increasingly less concerned with the Empires prestige and more concerned with their own. What's more, this same loss of face is also present in the very existence of the Khanid Empire. At any other point in history the Khanid would not have been allowed such independence and this is a point that still rubs the Empire the wrong way despite their public declarations of love and friendship for the Kingdom
Next the Amarr instituted the Kameiras Units, Minmatar indoctrinated to fight for their Amarr masters. Traditionally no one save for the Khanid, had ever been permitted to bear arms aside from Holy Paladins, and now they fell back upon a slave population which had never even actually been broken, to fight for them. This is not to say that the Kameiras make a bulk of the Empires military might, but rather that their very existence is contrary to their traditions.

[Continued Below]
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#3 - 2012-12-06 02:21:45 UTC
Finally we must look at the Minmatar themselves. The great tragedy as they are called by many of the religious elite in the Empire. I'm sure that had the Amarr known the destruction the Matari people would bring to their international prestige as well as their own personal views of themselves, they would have simply wiped the race from the face of New Eden the moment that they encountered us. We have been a pause in their faith, look at the protesters of True Amarr ancestry whom constantly occupy some of Amarrs holiest places in peaceful protests, chanting "free what is not ours" and other such slogans. Can you imagine the fury of the Empress as she see's these youths, these children of Holders, protesting what had always been seen as a True Amarrs holiest of duties, or her rage at being unable to squash these bugs because "the world is watching"? Imagine for a moment being the Divine Ruler of a Holy Empire who's hands are tied on acting against heretics because CONCORD or the Sisters of Eve might rally international support against your actions.

Remember when I said that the Empire is the artificial rival of the Federation artificially? This is what I was referring to. CONCORD's department of International Inquiry and Stability, an organization devoted to assessing each empires credit practices as well as such things like economic growth, stability and inflation models, recently compiled a report urging the Empire to maintain their economic model of slavery because if they failed to do so, the fiscal strain of having to pay laborers in roles that had traditionally been held by slaves, would in fact cause such a rapid inflation on goods whilst plundering and already national currency that CONCORD would be forced to downgrade the Empires Credit to that of being on par with Mordus Legion or Cartel standing.

Let me explain what that means. If the Amarr were to free their slaves, all of them, and put able body men and women into the labor pool and pay them, the Golden Empire would fall from being a equal of The Federation, the Republic or the State and find itself on economically equal footing of the various criminal super organizations or mega capsuleer alliances such as the former Band of Brothers or Northern Coalition.

[Continued Below]
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#4 - 2012-12-06 02:22:24 UTC
What can be done realistically?

No matter how many fights we win and no matter who nor how loudly other nations cry out against slavery, it is an institution that is here for the foreseeable future. What's more all the Empire Nations, and yes I mean even the Republic, know that to cripple the Empires economy in the way that forcing an end to slavery would also cripple and, in the case of the Republic, end those states as we know them as all the Empire States are interdependent on one another through pacts enforced by CONCORD.

The inflation that would be a death blow to the Empire would be less, but no less crippling in the Federation, force the Caldari into such an economic disaster as to throw the State as to see that empire fall back into a pre -warp gate society and the already shaky Republic would simply waste away from the face of New Eden. Surprisingly the only states that would see any benefit from such a move would be states like the Thukkar, Sansha's Nation, the Cartels and Mordus Legion as well as capsuleer mega alliances.

What could be expected in such an apocalyptic scenario is that states like those mentioned above would quickly rush into the new power vacuum, throwing the entire galaxy into a war that stretches its entirety. The CONCORD report mentioned above painted a very dire picture of the fall out. The Thukkar and Elder Fleets would reinvent the Matari people into their image (perhaps a reason to actually try for this but the rest of the report gives pause to my glee at this). Sansha's Nation would most likely dominate almost 35% of New Eden within a century, its vast horde of Slaves waging unending war against a world unable to push back. The Cartels would prey upon isolated populations of all the former Empires and both Mordus Legion aswell as CONCORD would become "hired police" for those who could pay the hefty price as CONCORD would not be able to function under any other sort of model.

Of course the above could never be allowed to happen, it would be insane for even the Republic (whom I should mention has access to the same CONCORD report as the one mentioned) to actually push for the end of slavery so abruptly., though I do not suppose that the San Matar would ever openly admit this.

What we, as a galactic community, can do to make the end of slavery a reality takes all of the things that no one in the galactic community is willing to part with and that is simply our preconceived notions. Matari would have to understand that this is not a battle that can be won by bullets, Amarr would have to come to terms with living in an economic model that requires paying more for the goods they enjoy and rely on their own abilities instead of others. The Federation would have to accept a very large financial burden eased upon them slowly over the course of the next century which would see the quality of life in their borders diminish but not actually collapse and the Caldari would have to be willing to agree to price fixing and none compete clauses with the Federation so that access to Caldari goods are still as easily accessible once the economic pinch begins.

[The End]
Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-12-06 02:45:15 UTC
An interesting way of putting it. You are taking the viewpoint that, for better or ill, the nations of New Eden are locked together like it or not. I dont deny that, from all information you have available you do seem to be as objective as possible and will credit you for that... Although I think what your saying is very unpopular.

I want to state outright that your wrong and the Empire is stronger than ever before... But I have been on the war-front and know that simply is not true.

Would you mind sharing a link to the Concord report? I am interested in reading that as well.
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#6 - 2012-12-06 02:52:13 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
An interesting way of putting it. You are taking the viewpoint that, for better or ill, the nations of New Eden are locked together like it or not. I dont deny that, from all information you have available you do seem to be as objective as possible and will credit you for that... Although I think what your saying is very unpopular.

I want to state outright that your wrong and the Empire is stronger than ever before... But I have been on the war-front and know that simply is not true.

Would you mind sharing a link to the Concord report? I am interested in reading that as well.


I would first like to say that It is NOT a point of view that I like, I am a Freedom Fighter and I will continue to fight the fight. That being said I am also one who looks at facts and, like them or not, must accept them as facts and that is why I posted this thesis as I feel that these facts are a weapon that if used properly, can win the freedom of my people. What we do with these facts are up to us.

As to the CONCORD report, it is readily available to you via petition to CONCORDS DIIS (Department of International Inquiry and Stability).
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-06 02:53:00 UTC
I've read through your text, and I must disagree with a big part of it. I'm no scholar, so I apologize in advance if I make some wrong assumptions, but in the Fleet I took several courses on politics that explain some things you left out on your interpretation of the Empire.

First, you consider we conquer and slave people for economic reasons, which is a mistake. I'm a Ni-Kunni, a once enslaved race, and I can guarantee you the reason the Empire enslaves people is to civilize them, and teach them His Word. Now I won't get into a religious debate, it's not much of my thing, but this key idea is central to the existance of the Empire and its meaning.

We have no intentions of global domination, that is not necessarily the goal. Thus, we have no problem with the Khanid Kingdom being independant, as long as they worship the same God as we do. We even let their King back into our fold thanks to the wisdom of the Empress. And this bonds into another important element in your thesis: legitimacy. You try to explain how the Empire acts depending on the image it's actions could have on the exterior, and thus imagine our Glorious Empress is somehow bound by that image. But such is not the case. The Imperial legitimacy is not based on democracy, image, acceptance or any other gallentean concepts. On the contrary, it is based on His Words and how they are interpreted by the institutions in the Empire. The Empress doesn't care for such matters as the economic impact, the image that others have or their interests, as long as her enlightened vision of what our common future and the divine plan guides us. She is not bound, not at all. That's why it doesn't matter if others believe there's a sign of weakness in the Empire because we free some slaves, or even a big amount as the Empress asked us to do, what matters is that those are already a real part of the Empire and have been civilized as such.

So, simply put, we won't free your people... yet. Not until they are ready. But it has nothing to do with wars with the Gallente, or proxy states, or our alliance with the Caldari. It has to do with our duty.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#8 - 2012-12-06 03:10:20 UTC
Sepherim wrote:

So, simply put, we won't free your people... yet. Not until they are ready. But it has nothing to do with wars with the Gallente, or proxy states, or our alliance with the Caldari. It has to do with our duty.


I will not go into a religious debate with you, you are my enemy, but I can even find respect for an enemy in that I will not sully their holiest of beliefs. The "image" issue I described was and is a true fact even if the only example you may be willing to agree to is how the image of holy words are precieved by others. This is a modern age where almost any action is well documented via the necom, and as such must be weighed against the good that an action will do in selling the idea of your God versus the damage of what those actions can be precived as by those you would convert.

In the case of those protestors I mentioned (and let me state that this is a small and over all unimportant movement in your Empire and by no means a wide spread group so people do not think that I mean to say that this is a new wave of political reform in the Empire), It was wiser to let them be then send Paladins to arrest them. While Holders and others may not care about what outsiders think, your Empress as vile as I find her, is wise enough to realize that all Nations are capable of hurting one another with one anothers accountants more easily then the entire Elder fleet returning to your space. This is the Image that all nations pay attention to.

Its not a question of "do they like me" but rather "will they hurt my peoples ability to feed themselves with economic levies if I do this?"
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-12-06 03:19:35 UTC
Economy is but one side of the equation. Military power is another, as is religious one. In other lands, such as the Gallente, social power and the mass media are also added to the equation. But not all nations value all powers the same, and in the same measure.

The Gallente value the strength of their civil society, and their democracy, and their freedoms. The Caldari value economic might above all others. The Minmatarr... well, you are a clear example of the value of economy, but also the social ties that arise from tribal ties.

We value military power, and religious one above all else. If it comes a time when we should all eat less, we accept such a price. Afterall, the amarrian foundation starts with a long jorney through the deseart. I don't care much about religion, but the Empire does, and we can go very far in order to keep that might.

So, as I said before, don't explain other nations from the viewpoints of your own. It may not work well.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#10 - 2012-12-06 03:29:01 UTC
Sepherim wrote:

The Minmatarr... well, you are a clear example of the value of economy, but also the social ties that arise from tribal ties.


If we are to be honest I would rather see the galaxy burn in the scenario described in that report especially if the theory that between the Thukkar, Elders and remnants of the Republic would most likely form a power base more likened to a Tribal Society then continue as we are now, but I am also human and while I naturally want to see my people where I think that they should be, the Idea of Sansha Kuvekai as perhaps the most powerful force in the galaxy, criminals preying upon the weak in a way that we can hardly imagine now and the darkness we would all live in chills my heart.

I think one thing that is perhaps lost on you, and I am not trying to talk down to you, is that in my final thoughts I put the burden of freedom on the Minmatar and not the Amarr. I state that we need to step up and stop being a nation of free loaders and start being a galactic equal, not through war, strife or subterfuge but by contributing to New Eden something aside from a bad attitude and make such a transition economically viable to your Empire.

Economics in of itself is useless, its how you apply it that matters.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-12-06 03:32:45 UTC
I'm not entering into the practical consequences of those settings. For me those are clear: I am a soldier, and we are at war. It's simple.

So the burden on who the freedom or unfreedom is, is just a philosophical debate. I just point out what I believe is a flaw of ethnocentrism on your thesis. I'd like to argue it better, but I'm just a navy officer, not a sociologist. So I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on what I intended to say.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#12 - 2012-12-06 03:41:47 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
I'm not entering into the practical consequences of those settings. For me those are clear: I am a soldier, and we are at war. It's simple.

So the burden on who the freedom or unfreedom is, is just a philosophical debate. I just point out what I believe is a flaw of ethnocentrism on your thesis. I'd like to argue it better, but I'm just a navy officer, not a sociologist. So I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on what I intended to say.


Id say that you are absolutely correct in calling racial bias on me sir, I am Minmatar, and so I argue my points as a Minmatar just as you argue an Amarrian point of view. Further more I will not hide that my motivations are to further my agenda, a Minmatar agenda. I do hope that those with means, foresight and the fortitude read this and perhaps see that the way to freedom for our people is not through bullets alone but also through social, economic and cultural strengthening and a clear goal for our people.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#13 - 2012-12-06 08:09:50 UTC
I find I am largely in agreement with the content of your post. Its quite obvious the forces that be have invested a great deal of interest in maintaining the status quo, because to change it at all would throw the cluster into a war that it could very well not recover from, and just like that, we would become the new sleepers, or the new Yan Jung, our ruins floating in the dark of space for some future explorers to find.

I am not a republican, and in general, I find the governments of the Big4 rather detestable, but I understand that even with the power of a capsuleer, far too much has been invested in the current paradigm for us to create any meaningful change from within the system. In other words, the freedom fighters will never win. the reclaimers will never win, the caldari and Gallentean nationalists will never win. Believing your cause is just, and you have Spirts/God/Justice on your side does nothing but blind you to the truth. You cannot win. Because winning would be more dangerous for everyone. Things are stacked too carefully, if one side was to gain an upper hand, order in all of the empires could collapse. Its much easier to throw those radicals into the meat grinder of the proxy conflicts until their numbers are diminished to a degree that moderates all four nations. If you don't look past the messages and posturing that the governments run on, you'll never see how pointless they make everything.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2012-12-06 08:37:23 UTC
Cpt. Muertas,

I'd strongly advise you make yourself familiar with the history of Amarr and New Eden in general, as your summary is not only skewed, but in so many places outright false. If this is meant to be disinformation on your part, though, shame on you. I hope people will generally realize that it is false information regardless of why you're giving it here - be it that you're misinformed yourself or not.
Given the blatant discrepancies with reality, though, I'm quite sure that Gallenteans will see through it, as they should know that there has never been a state of war between the Empire and the Federation, with the possible exception of the recent skirmishes of the militias, if one wants to take those into account, here. Similarly, every citizen of the State will know that the State existed even before the Amarr made contact with the Federation and thus, that what you have to say about its relation to the Empire must be false.

As there are many more glaring misconceptions about the Empire, its history and culture in your post, I recommend this for your education.

Faithfully,
N. Mithra
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-12-06 15:22:51 UTC
The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.

von Khan

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#16 - 2012-12-06 19:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Los Muertas
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Cpt. Muertas,

I'd strongly advise you make yourself familiar with the history of Amarr and New Eden in general, as your summary is not only skewed, but in so many places outright false. If this is meant to be disinformation on your part, though, shame on you. I hope people will generally realize that it is false information regardless of why you're giving it here - be it that you're misinformed yourself or not.
Given the blatant discrepancies with reality, though, I'm quite sure that Gallenteans will see through it, as they should know that there has never been a state of war between the Empire and the Federation, with the possible exception of the recent skirmishes of the militias, if one wants to take those into account, here. Similarly, every citizen of the State will know that the State existed even before the Amarr made contact with the Federation and thus, that what you have to say about its relation to the Empire must be false.

As there are many more glaring misconceptions about the Empire, its history and culture in your post, I recommend this for your education.

Faithfully,
N. Mithra



[ooc this http://blog.opensourcenerd.com/upload/eve-backstory is what I was refering to which used to be on the official evelopedia but I cannot now find. Third paragraph. It was vauge but in one of Tony Gonzales short stories about the events leading up to the battle of Vak'aitoth it is referenced there aswell. Also in those two references this actually happened before the Gallente and Caldari wars. If anyone can help find this id appreciate it. This was a 2003 evelopedia reference so perhaps this portion of lore has been changed? This has been referenced on several lore and rp forums I have followed for some time so this may be an issue of old lore being rewritten and some of the older RP'ers not getting the memo. Here is another mention of it http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Amarr_Empire under history second to last line.]

I must admit to my embarrassment at not being able to find the reference book used when mentioning hostilities between the Amarr and Gallente, so If we may leave this point alone for the moment what other "errors" would you like to point out so that I may clarify my statements Miss Mithra? As I have said before I openly admit that my view points are those of a Minmatar, however if there is something blatantly false as opposed to slanted to a Minmatar point of view, I would like to know.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#17 - 2012-12-06 21:23:53 UTC
Well, this one is a bit more intellectual in his attempts to justify violence against the Empire, unlike that Alexia Morgan. He's still going to fail miserably, but at least he will be able to spin me a yarn before the laser bolt melts his pod.

I've said it before and I say it again; militant emancipation is ignorant, immoral and futile. More slaves can be freed by by a willing Holder's decree than by bombing his manor, killing his children and burning the fields all Imperial people depend on. The Empress herself single-handedly freed more slaves overnight than any Minmatar freedom fighter ever did in their entire lifetime.

The days of solving problems between civilized peoples with a bullet are over. Grow up and take care of the people you already have. Start a bloody charity or something instead of wasting your lives and the lives of others on this idiotic idea of a fallen Empire with pround Matari standing atop the rubble. It will not happen, and should not happen, as the cost in human life would be horrific.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#18 - 2012-12-06 21:53:10 UTC
For the life of me I cannot understand the Amarr who have replied to this thesis inability to read the entire document. The closing arguments of the thesis were that Minamtar needed to focus on their affairs internally, and become economic equals in the world in an effort to make coming home a possibility both internally and externally.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#19 - 2012-12-06 21:57:46 UTC
*Takes a second look at the document*

Huh. Nevermind, carry on.

To be fair, it was pretty long.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#20 - 2012-12-06 22:02:37 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
*Takes a second look at the document*

Huh. Nevermind, carry on.

To be fair, it was pretty long.


And in all fairness most Amarr stop reading about the time I get into my views on the Amarr and see only a PR smear campaign on my part so thank you for bearing with me to the end sir.
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