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Dev blog: Aftermath of the Mining Barge Changes (Price Indices – October 2012)

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Lucent Setien
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-12-06 16:28:54 UTC
As a new player this type of information both intrigues and scares me. It all seems so daunting.
CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2012-12-06 16:40:44 UTC
Magic Crisp wrote:
the "mining barges" graph, for the larger image, links to the Exhumers_Produced.png, could you please fix this?


Yes, I fixed that. You should only have to refresh the blog.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#23 - 2012-12-06 17:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
It's been said, but I'm saying it again.

"Diversity"?

Really?

What we're seeing is not diversity but a 1:1 or greater replacement of hulks with mackinaws. Over time I expect hulk usage will decrease, in fact!

From the blog you seem to almost get it, if the afk mining comments are any indication, but I figure I'll spell it out.

Mining is boring.

Because mining is boring, players always gravitate to the best isk:effort ratio.

Previously to the revamps, the best ratio was the hulk, because all the ships were the same, just lower or higher yield. Therefore, the hulk was king.

Now the mackinaw is a thing. You can get like 90% of the volume for a fraction of the effort - the mackinaw unloads its cargo every twenty-ish minutes, while the hulk is every three. Sixfold drop in effort for a 10% drop in yield is a no-brainer, and the better tank is like a cherry on top.

In short, ya'll screwed up. Lately you've been, for better or worse, pretty good about addressing your screw ups. How about another look at this one?

E: I like the focus on mineral prices from August onward only. Nicely ignores the fact that pyerite, trit and isogen have all taken huge leaps earlier in the year thanks to other mistakes you've made becoming apparent.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#24 - 2012-12-06 17:03:10 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Aryth wrote:
One thing I want to point out here before it gets lost in the noise. The spike in production of Procurers and Retrievers had basically nothing to do with their new usefulness. (They aren't). It had everything to do with their increased mineral costs coming in. In some cases 400%+. It was a no brainer hit.

Thank god I already cashed out half my stockpile to recover all my initial investment before this blog hit. Holla.

That's what I thought as well. That graph isn't very useful but maybe a comparison to total market sales at that time would be helpful to see if it was just market activity

The rest of the blog is interesting though.

Why no discussion about rebalancing ores? Abcm are no longer top of the chain like they should be (yes they should be because that's how mining was designed).



ABCs might not be top of the pile (A is close, B and C are below some highsec ores) but they do have one significant benefit. They refine down far smaller, making transport logistics far far easier, than transferring the trit you got from your millions of m3 of Veldspar.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Dave stark
#25 - 2012-12-06 17:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
corestwo wrote:
In short, ya'll screwed up. Lately you've been, for better or worse, pretty good about addressing your screw ups. How about another look at this one?

last paragraph of the dev blog wrote:
it would seem safe to assume that the changes to mining barges and exhumers turned out well.


unless you like looking like a smurf; i wouldn't hold your breath.
Callic Veratar
#26 - 2012-12-06 17:15:37 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Maybe I don't understand macroeconomics, but if people have been mining so damn much compared to the past, how come **** is like 40%-60% more expensive than I remember it 2 years ago if there is such an ore surplus in the system?

Shouldn't prices be going DOWN with all these miners?


Something important to remember as well is that all the rebalanced frigates, destroyers, and cruisers have had their manufacturing costs increased.

Pre-Retribution it required about 2000 trit to build a Bantam, Navitas, or Burst. Now it requires over 20000 per ship. The same change in manufacturing cost happened for the Slasher, Atron, Condor, Executioner, and Tormentor in earlier releases.

The other frigates were increase, but the effects not so dramatic. Also, there's been a heavy emphasis on stockpiling, among people I talk to, for the next hulkageddon or whatever.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-12-06 17:23:57 UTC
Now give us a graph showing Mining Vessels destroyed.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#28 - 2012-12-06 17:25:27 UTC
/me mutters about the falling prices, thus profit margin, on many T2 goods.

The falling costs don't impact enough to make up for the falling sale price. Oh well, diversification keeps things interesting.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-12-06 17:26:12 UTC
*legalized botting explodes*

hmm what excellent balancing we did

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#30 - 2012-12-06 17:29:08 UTC
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-12-06 17:32:35 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.


"what we need is our legalized botting to become even easier"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#32 - 2012-12-06 17:34:52 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.



And if they want to go the other way, they can redo the yield bonus as a cycle time reduction, so that the "asteroid is depleted" notifications better line up with the asteroids popping.

I don't know, but I suspect, that a lot of semi-AFK Mack and Retriever pilots don't even notice that they've popped an asteroid until the strip miner cycle finally comes to an end and Aura pipes up to tell them.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Dave stark
#33 - 2012-12-06 17:37:07 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.

yes it does.

it takes about 2 seconds to start the lasers on a new asteroid, unless you've taken the dog for a walk or gone for a nap the mackinaw is the king at every type of mining that involves targeting floaty things in space. i dread to think how many series of tv shows i've watched while mining ore in a mackinaw while paying 0 attention to the eve client other than when i hear "asteroid depleted"
Dave stark
#34 - 2012-12-06 17:37:59 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.



And if they want to go the other way, they can redo the yield bonus as a cycle time reduction, so that the "asteroid is depleted" notifications better line up with the asteroids popping.

I don't know, but I suspect, that a lot of semi-AFK Mack and Retriever pilots don't even notice that they've popped an asteroid until the strip miner cycle finally comes to an end and Aura pipes up to tell them.


considering that's the only way to tell unless you want to sacrifice a mid slot for a scanner that needs manually refreshing every cycle....
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-12-06 18:08:14 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
The large ore hold may make the Mack the king of ice mining, but not ore mining. But the Mack was the ice mining king before, so whats new? In the case of ore, its a rare high sec roid field where you can aim 2 strips at 2 roids then 24 minutes later return to a full hold. Many roids deplete in a single strip cycle. If you really want to see mineral prices go down, CCP should refactor roid fields to having fewer roids, each with more ore. That way ore can be mined like ice is mined, with little effort.


"what we need is our legalized botting to become even easier"


Then they release the Sreegs and ban people for making money while afk! How cunning of them.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#36 - 2012-12-06 18:16:32 UTC
Can somebody explain to me why the mineral price index is over the consumer price index? Why doesn't that put every industrial out of business?

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Freezehunter
#37 - 2012-12-06 18:16:46 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Maybe I don't understand macroeconomics, but if people have been mining so damn much compared to the past, how come **** is like 40%-60% more expensive than I remember it 2 years ago if there is such an ore surplus in the system?

Shouldn't prices be going DOWN with all these miners?


Because the main source of minerals back then got took out, The drone alloys


Good point, I didn't take that into consideration.

So basically, if they wouldn't have made the barge changes, the situation would be even worse regarding ship prices?

Damn...

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries
Orion Consortium
#38 - 2012-12-06 18:47:07 UTC
People are still building Procurers? Retrievers I can kind of see, but with the selling price of Procurers being one fifth the build cost, why would anyone build them?
Rick Rymes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-12-06 19:13:01 UTC
Molic Blackbird wrote:
People are still building Procurers? Retrievers I can kind of see, but with the selling price of Procurers being one fifth the build cost, why would anyone build them?


I imagine people are expecting another Hulkageddon, Procurer would become the barge of choice overnight.
Yuki Kasumi
Some names are just stupid
#40 - 2012-12-06 19:26:11 UTC
Rick Rymes wrote:
Molic Blackbird wrote:
People are still building Procurers? Retrievers I can kind of see, but with the selling price of Procurers being one fifth the build cost, why would anyone build them?


I imagine people are expecting another Hulkageddon, Procurer would become the barge of choice overnight.


Then if thats the case, BUY them, not build them for 4x the price :)