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All of the NEX Store items should be completely craftable
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#21 - 2011-10-21 19:55:10 UTC
Gee I can't wait to spend 2 months researching "Hemline V" skill.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-10-21 20:26:04 UTC
Josie Starshine wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
Josie Starshine wrote:
Let's see..

1) Considering the number of subscriptions over the life of the game has been somewhat consistent (~300k).
2) Years ago the average number of subscriptions per player was ~1.2*.
3) Presently, the average number of subscriptions per player is around 2-3*, if not more.

What does this tell you about the actual amount of players subscribed to EVE over time?

I think the Nex Store is more of a necessity now than ever before. Perhaps it was not greed that brought about it's creation but survival instead.

(* - from what I have found. Perhaps someone else has better numbers.)


Then raise sub prices. Income from MT will be hard to predict and has just generated resentment.


Who do you think mostly plays via paid subs? Newer players.

Veterans pretty much play via Plex only. Raising subs would only push away newer players and EVE would end up with only player purchased Plex as it's revenue stream. With the upcoming changes to capitals, relying on player purchased Plex might not be a good strategy. To me, the Next store seems like a means to offset this... less paid subs.
I know what's a good strategy! We can ban all those goons from the game and eve subscription will skyrocket. Just like my bitcoins will if we wipe off Something Awful from the face of the earth!
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#23 - 2011-10-21 20:44:28 UTC
Karadion wrote:
I know what's a good strategy! We can ban all those goons from the game and eve subscription will skyrocket. Just like my bitcoins will if we wipe off Something Awful from the face of the earth!


Yeah, that's it! Good thing they don't read the forums so they'll never see it coming. I'm not even sure most of them can read.

Seriously, I may not like the Goons, mostly due to brain damage from having to be on their voice server for an operation one night and losing two homes to them but I appreciate the market disruptions. In the end I think I've made more in profit from their pro gankage abilities. The Goons are good at stirring the pot and keeping EVE... interesting.

Isn't Mittens starting a new recruiting campaign to bring in some fresh blood?

_ _
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#24 - 2011-10-21 20:48:12 UTC
ok what about this:

- buy the design via aurum, its like a blueprint (yep you can even keep the current prizes if they are BPOs).
- make the items destroyable (yes they are stored in the pod, otherwise you would have to replicate them on every undock or something like that)
- everyone can replicate ("manufactor") them if they have purchased the design


why is this better?

- it makes sense
- it is player crafted
- you loose them when you get podded (-> you always replicate a bunch of them at once, n*numberOfClones)
- AUR has still some use
- it makes sense


and the best:

The same idea would work for ship skins too!

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-10-21 20:49:08 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
Karadion wrote:
I know what's a good strategy! We can ban all those goons from the game and eve subscription will skyrocket. Just like my bitcoins will if we wipe off Something Awful from the face of the earth!


Yeah, that's it! Good thing they don't read the forums so they'll never see it coming. I'm not even sure most of them can read.

Seriously, I may not like the Goons, mostly due to brain damage from having to be on their voice server for an operation one night and losing two homes to them but I appreciate the market disruptions. In the end I think I've made more in profit from their pro gankage abilities. The Goons are good at stirring the pot and keeping EVE... interesting.

Isn't Mittens starting a new recruiting campaign to bring in some fresh blood?

We're always bringing in fresh blood.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-21 21:55:59 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
I agree with the OP 100% even Incarna stuff deserves to be player made.

And yes MT in a subscription based game is just wrong.


This.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-10-21 22:31:13 UTC
Can I craft pants from 15 boar pelts and 2 mana gems?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#28 - 2011-10-21 22:37:14 UTC
I always wanted to see player designed clothes, room decorations, ship skins and such. Player designed and player made. The issue CCP has mentioned (and in fact an issue with the entire game industry) is TTP, that is Time To P**** (read gentleman's sausage).

How to fix that? Have each player design vetted by someone at CCP. But that takes a person's time, you say. Right, so have the vetting process cost Aurum.

My proposal: Aurum for approval of player designed items. Once approved, the player gets a BPO for the item. Production and sale no longer involve Aurum.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Kirgan
Stranix Industrial Group
#29 - 2011-10-21 23:43:23 UTC
Myxx wrote:
According to the eurogamer article that has an interview with Hillmar, they dont plan to revisit the NEX for the foreseeable future.

given they wont be doing that, they should place all ingame items that were slated for the NEX store into the game via ingame blueprint originals, to be created from various PI materials (polytextiles, etc) and minerals.

the ishukone ship should be also placed ingame as a bpo/c bought from the ishukone LP store.

If done, this entire debacle can be settled without losing too much 'new stuff' from either captains quarters or flying in space.

Edit: of course, this would mean nuking Aurum to hell and back and simply converting it all into an isk value equal to a ratio of the worth of a plex.



This and Jades post expanding on the idea was well said.

Still, in a game where most of the players being male, why is there even a discussion on clothes for a game avatar.
Not sure what was more of a suprise, that CCP thought the playerbase would actually buy vanity items, or the fact that people acually have.


Quote:
"We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well and live."
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#30 - 2011-10-21 23:45:44 UTC
We really need tailoring? Ugh

-1

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#31 - 2011-10-21 23:50:06 UTC
Bischopt wrote:
Commissar Kate wrote:
I agree with the OP 100% even Incarna stuff deserves to be player made.

And yes MT in a subscription based game is just wrong.


This.


The whole game is PAY TO WIN Cry

It is a game where you can buy ingame currency via PLEX from the game vendor for RL cash, MT is nothing in the big picture. It is a non-event, you can't buy anything that has an effect on the game.

The only reason anyone even complains is they cannot aford to buy what they want but lack the introspective to see that and instead lash out at CCP. Shocked

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#32 - 2011-10-22 00:42:29 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
ok what about this:

- buy the design via aurum, its like a blueprint (yep you can even keep the current prizes if they are BPOs).
- make the items destroyable (yes they are stored in the pod, otherwise you would have to replicate them on every undock or something like that)
- everyone can replicate ("manufactor") them if they have purchased the design


why is this better?

- it makes sense
- it is player crafted
- you loose them when you get podded (-> you always replicate a bunch of them at once, n*numberOfClones)
- AUR has still some use
- it makes sense


and the best:

The same idea would work for ship skins too!


I, and I'm sure many others, have voiced this same opinion... and while I respect the fact that Jade and many others have a bad taste in their mouths concerning the NeX store I'd much rather keep the current system in place and used for the sale of vanity BPC's for those that want them than see EVERYONE forced to pay higher subscription prices sooner or later.

ArrowIf the NeX store sold BPC's of vanity items (including ship skins, etc),
ArrowIf a proper player driven production mechanic was implemented in game (utilizing perhaps PI goods for the raw materials),
Arrowif the current pricing scheme was kept but the output for each BPC was 10 items,
Arrowand if these items were made destructible,

I don't think anyone would be overly upset. It would be a completely workable compromise that would benefit CCP and the entire player base... as well as dovetail nicely with whatever they are trying to accomplish with the economy of DUST.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#33 - 2011-10-22 01:36:01 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Bischopt wrote:
Commissar Kate wrote:
I agree with the OP 100% even Incarna stuff deserves to be player made.

And yes MT in a subscription based game is just wrong.


This.


The whole game is PAY TO WIN Cry

It is a game where you can buy ingame currency via PLEX from the game vendor for RL cash, MT is nothing in the big picture. It is a non-event, you can't buy anything that has an effect on the game.

The only reason anyone even complains is they cannot aford to buy what they want but lack the introspective to see that and instead lash out at CCP. Shocked



Its not about pay to win. Its about pay twice (when you've already paid for subs) and its about corruption of the economic sandbox and player led industry. Everything has an effect on game - the vanity/non-vanity division is flawed from the outset.

As for people complaining about NeX not being able to afford that crap just don't be silly. Imagine for a moment that there are some players of this game who actually care about economic balance, preservation of the player led sandbox and general health of the game universe.

Nothing in the NeX store ever cost more than a 1/20th of the Erebus class Titan I acquired for roleplay purposes. It isn't the expense thats the issue - its the cheap and nasty delivery and the essential insult of MT in a subscription game.

Rare things in Eve can be bought for real money sure - via $ converted to PLEX and sold to players. But thats still rewarding the players who built, discovered, hunted and produced the rare things in the first place.

NeX was intended to short-circuit that and rob Eve players of essential gameplay and as such needs to be shot in the back of the head and buried in an unmarked grave.

The death of NeX in Eve will herald a renewal of the game and the return of much enthusiasm from a wide variety of players.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Psychophantic
#34 - 2011-10-22 01:56:32 UTC
Name one negative way the NEX is affecting you at the moment.

There are no gameplay enhancing items.

Anything in the NEX is available through ISK -> Plex -> Aurum conversion.

Most people won't even see the items with the return of the hangar and WIS being postponed.

All this fuss over some visual vanity items which I can buy with surplus ISK which only affect the top half of your in-game portrait and weren't available for years and years.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#35 - 2011-10-22 02:45:42 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Bischopt wrote:
Commissar Kate wrote:
I agree with the OP 100% even Incarna stuff deserves to be player made.

And yes MT in a subscription based game is just wrong.


This.


The whole game is PAY TO WIN Cry

It is a game where you can buy ingame currency via PLEX from the game vendor for RL cash, MT is nothing in the big picture. It is a non-event, you can't buy anything that has an effect on the game.

The only reason anyone even complains is they cannot aford to buy what they want but lack the introspective to see that and instead lash out at CCP. Shocked



Its not about pay to win. Its about pay twice (when you've already paid for subs) and its about corruption of the economic sandbox and player led industry. Everything has an effect on game - the vanity/non-vanity division is flawed from the outset.

As for people complaining about NeX not being able to afford that crap just don't be silly. Imagine for a moment that there are some players of this game who actually care about economic balance, preservation of the player led sandbox and general health of the game universe.

Nothing in the NeX store ever cost more than a 1/20th of the Erebus class Titan I acquired for roleplay purposes. It isn't the expense thats the issue - its the cheap and nasty delivery and the essential insult of MT in a subscription game.

Rare things in Eve can be bought for real money sure - via $ converted to PLEX and sold to players. But thats still rewarding the players who built, discovered, hunted and produced the rare things in the first place.

NeX was intended to short-circuit that and rob Eve players of essential gameplay and as such needs to be shot in the back of the head and buried in an unmarked grave.

The death of NeX in Eve will herald a renewal of the game and the return of much enthusiasm from a wide variety of players.



A good example is with something like the monocle, make it a BPC and only allow a certain amount of the BPC's to be in the game at any given time, Thereby you make it unique and keep the ISK value higher and it still gets rid of excess ISK/PLEX from the game.

The addition of Aurum on top of PLEX sounds more like CCP management listened to some supposed 'microtransaction marketing expert' bs to me.

I look at what would potentialy attract new players to EVE, the thought of creating an establishment where part of it is selling clothing, etc that the player has created or having that new player put their hand in their wallet for a $70 monocle ... tough choice I know. The NEX store does nothing to diversify EVE and make it more appealing for a broader group of players.

All the talk of CCP management caring for the game, really? when you put something in the game that completely goes against the very heart and sole of the sandbox that is EVE, I have to wonder.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Josie Starshine
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2011-10-22 03:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Josie Starshine
The number of actual players subscribed to EVE has dwindled over the years (increase of total subs compared to increase in subs per player). Add to this that there are more players relying on Plex to 'pay' their subs.

So that is a double-whammy to the actual EVE revenue stream. Without the Nex Store where is CCP going to make up that loss? I am sure 'going back to basics' is just going to bring in all sorts of new players and paid subs (not Plex paid alts) Roll.

Maybe we should remove Plex too. Folks complain about vanity items, screaming pay to win, but then can plop down real world cash for billions of in game currency that they never earned in game? Hypocritical?

Real world currency -> Plex -> Aurum -> monocle = "Terrible!! Pay to win! Sky is falling!"
Real world currency -> Plex -> ISK -> Capital ship = "Oh that's okay."

Shocked
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#37 - 2011-10-22 05:03:23 UTC
Josie Starshine wrote:
The number of actual players subscribed to EVE has dwindled over the years (increase of total subs compared to increase in subs per player). Add to this that there are more players relying on Plex to 'pay' their subs.

Why do you think car manufacturers for example bring out new models every couple of years with more features, etc? Why doesn't Ford still have a Model 'T' in their lineup? Because to keep peoples interest in their product they need to update them on a continued basis.
When you concider that EVE hasn't had any major updates for 2 years, you then ask why the playerbase hasn't expanded.

Quote:
So that is a double-whammy to the actual EVE revenue stream. Without the Nex Store where is CCP going to make up that loss? I am sure 'going back to basics' is just going to bring in all sorts of new players and paid subs (not Plex paid alts) Roll.
No, new players are brought in by increasing the wider appeal of the game, you know like with real content. Does the NEX store do that? I don't think so.

So you think it's OK to milk your existing customers with something as blatant as the NEX store and you think people should be happy about that.

Quote:
Maybe we should remove Plex too. Folks complain about vanity items, screaming pay to win, but then can plop down real world cash for billions of in game currency that they never earned in game? Hypocritical?

Real world currency -> Plex -> Aurum -> monocle = "Terrible!! Pay to win! Sky is falling!"
Real world currency -> Plex -> ISK -> Capital ship = "Oh that's okay."

Shocked

You do remember that EVE is a sandbox game don't you? Player run economy and all that. One of those you listed does not circumvent the sandbox economy, I'll leave it to you to see if you can figure out which one it is.

The hypocrisy is CCP already having PLEX and then putting Aurum on top of that and expect people to be happy about it.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

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