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Solving the "freighter" problem. Once and for all
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#41 - 2012-12-06 01:03:51 UTC
just food for thought: haulers fill their freighters with everything they can before setting off. if u made a tanky hauler with less capacity, they wouldnt use it because it would mean more trips. unless ur talking about small valuable items, in which case;

today a hauler puts 2bil into his freighter and complains when he gets ganked. if u gave freighters double their EHP, the same hauler would put 10bil into his freighter. Yet he will still complain when he gets ganked.

no matter how much HP u add to freighters, haulers will still load more and more valuable stuff and they will always go over the 'threshold' and MAKE THEMSELVES profitable.

the problem is not that ganking is easier, it is that haulers are careless or outright stupid. the solution? tell ur hauler friends to scout, carry less etc. back up solution? do nothing and let emergent gameplay force them out of hauling or the game all together. then smile at the lack of competition Cool

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-12-06 01:28:28 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
just food for thought: haulers fill their freighters with everything they can before setting off. if u made a tanky hauler with less capacity, they wouldnt use it because it would mean more trips. unless ur talking about small valuable items, in which case;

today a hauler puts 2bil into his freighter and complains when he gets ganked. if u gave freighters double their EHP, the same hauler would put 10bil into his freighter. Yet he will still complain when he gets ganked.

no matter how much HP u add to freighters, haulers will still load more and more valuable stuff and they will always go over the 'threshold' and MAKE THEMSELVES profitable.

the problem is not that ganking is easier, it is that haulers are careless or outright stupid. the solution? tell ur hauler friends to scout, carry less etc. back up solution? do nothing and let emergent gameplay force them out of hauling or the game all together. then smile at the lack of competition Cool


Of course they will still complain. But complaints are not the reason why this thread was made.

The thread was made because new tier 3's make ganking cheaper (presumably), and thus lower the amount of valuables you can safely carry in a freighter.

This means that the threshold which CCP originally intended for freighters to be able to haul without much risk of suicide ganking is no longer as high as it used to be.

The proposed armored freighter would give an option to bring that threshold back up to where it was before. That is the reason for the thread.


yes, people will still go over the threshold and complain, but at that point, you just ignore them. Because the intended purpose will have been fulfilled: regaining CCP's original freighter profitability balance/threshold in high sec.
Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views
#43 - 2012-12-06 01:51:17 UTC
Wait until Fozzie re-balances Freighters. Then look at the state of the game at that time.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#44 - 2012-12-06 02:19:16 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:


This means that the threshold which CCP originally intended for freighters to be able to haul without much risk of suicide ganking is no longer as high as it used to be.



assuming there was an intended threshold. it may be that they just bunged together some hitpoints and let eve sort itself out.

haulers carry as much as they do because they believe it to be worth the risk. if it wasnt worth the risk, then why are they carrying that amount?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#45 - 2012-12-06 05:00:28 UTC
I apparently need to spell it out:
Fleet boosts. Run convoys. If the risks aren't worth it decrease the risks, the tools have been improved even.

A 'cane can take out a gank fit 'nado pretty easily. Boost your EHP through implants and fleet boosts enough that more than one shot is needed and defense becomes plausible.

There are counters, they are in the game now. No change to the game is needed.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-12-06 05:07:44 UTC
Based on the patch notes it seems that you can now loot with a freighter.

In other words, you can use them as mining haulers.

Can anyone confirm this as I do not have a freighter.
Minty Moon
#47 - 2012-12-06 05:25:37 UTC
Fish Hunter wrote:
You do realize that Jump Freighters get a 10% bonus to HP per skill lvl don't you? Maybe a slight boost to JF HP is more realistic then a new fatso ship.

Charon EHP (no implants) - 180,200
Rhea EHP (no implants) - 326,300


Actually you know honestly I missed that. I checked the base HP for JF's so they were similar to standard and just assumed they only got bonus to cargo and jump fuel.

Thank you for pointing that out. Actually you made my topic now a mute point.

I inputed an ark with high grade implants, boosts, and pulled out 514.1k EHP at lvl and still not using a armored warfare link implant for booster

So effectively JF's cover both a quick logistics role for high volumes and an armored role for highvolumes

Daichi Yamato wrote:
just food for thought: haulers fill their freighters with everything they can before setting off. if u made a tanky hauler with less capacity, they wouldnt use it because it would mean more trips. unless ur talking about small valuable items, in which case;

today a hauler puts 2bil into his freighter and complains when he gets ganked. if u gave freighters double their EHP, the same hauler would put 10bil into his freighter. Yet he will still complain when he gets ganked.

no matter how much HP u add to freighters, haulers will still load more and more valuable stuff and they will always go over the 'threshold' and MAKE THEMSELVES profitable.

the problem is not that ganking is easier, it is that haulers are careless or outright stupid. the solution? tell ur hauler friends to scout, carry less etc. back up solution? do nothing and let emergent gameplay force them out of hauling or the game all together. then smile at the lack of competition Cool


topic of thread that they were missing a class of freighter to deal with current events not due to hauler stupidity. Though as someone kindly pointed out that JF's get 10% increase per lvl across the board which puts them at half a billion ehp + my topic is nice pleasantly mute. And i'm happy ^.^

Buzzy Warstl wrote:
I apparently need to spell it out:
Fleet boosts. Run convoys. If the risks aren't worth it decrease the risks, the tools have been improved even.

A 'cane can take out a gank fit 'nado pretty easily. Boost your EHP through implants and fleet boosts enough that more than one shot is needed and defense becomes plausible.

There are counters, they are in the game now. No change to the game is needed.


oh god i've argued that in every freighter thread -.- and even noticing now as you see above the massive ehp an ark can get. That will still be ignored I can guarantee it

Joe Risalo wrote:
Based on the patch notes it seems that you can now loot with a freighter.

In other words, you can use them as mining haulers.

Can anyone confirm this as I do not have a freighter.


no clue, and not what this thread is about sorry

(Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes)
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