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The problem with killrights (IE: How to make boatloads of ISK from them right now)

First post
Author
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#41 - 2012-12-05 16:31:45 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
This is a lot of effort for 5-10mil every 15 minutes, I can make more ratting.

You are not thinking big enough. If you got 2 accounts, 6 pilots, then its 240 million an hour maximum possible.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Synthmilk
The United Peoples of Synth
#42 - 2012-12-05 16:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Synthmilk
Am I missing something, or is anyone forcing someone into paying a fee somewhere?

The owner of the killright can set the price as high as they want or as low as they want, even free, it's THEIR killright. If someone doesn't want to pay to get a potentially profitable kill, that's their business. The primary purpose of this feature is to allow the transfer of killrights, the primary feature is working as intended, the ability to put a price on the killright is simply allowing the killright owner to profit from trigger happy pilots, and doesn't break the feature in the slightest.

Putting a high price on a killright does two things: makes the killright owner rich thanks to stupid people, or ensures the killright will never be activated and potentially going to waste.


I am however curious about what others here have said regarding the revoking of a killright after is has been activated, in that they were no longer able to legally attack the target.

From the patch notes:

Quote:
"To use a Kill Right now means activating a Suspect flag on the target of the Kill Right. The Suspect flag has a 15 minutes timer and allows anyone to legally engage the suspect."

"Players can cancel availability on their Kill Rights, but this does not affect engagement already taking place."


This tells me that on activation of a kill right a 15 minute suspect timer is started, and that revoking the killright will not affect this, or any combat taking place at the time.

Is this not how it is working? Does revoking the killright remove the suspect timer?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#43 - 2012-12-05 17:21:55 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So what's the issue again?
CCP Soundwave wrote:
No issue here :)

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Ginger Barbarella
#44 - 2012-12-05 17:26:16 UTC
Being able to sell kill rights is the height of SWEET. Big smile

That is all (and I hope to see some sweet killmails and AWESOME pirate tears)....

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-12-05 17:28:25 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
It is harder than before Retribution to get a kill right.

What do you have to do?


  • POD someone in lowsec. (Killing the ship is not enough)
  • Gank someone in highsec.


Wrong, you only have to shoot the pod to get a killright.

I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!

Mag's
Azn Empire
#46 - 2012-12-05 17:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Being able to sell kill rights is the height of SWEET. Big smile

That is all (and I hope to see some sweet killmails and AWESOME pirate tears)....
True pirates of very low sec status (-5 and below) have always been shootable, any time, any where. Just in case you didn't know already. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Ashra Tesh
Click Red
#47 - 2012-12-05 21:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashra Tesh
The fact that you can make ISK off this isn't a problem, and that wasn't the intent of my OP.

The main problem is that it's a way to make ISK without any risk to yourself. Most people doing this won't be sitting on a station with a docking radius they can be bumped away from. Most people don't this won't set the killright to be available if their alt sitting undock sees an alpha fleet waiting for them. Plus, when you're done you can just use the alt to make the killright private again and thus 'safe' from random violence (Due to killrights, at least) Some kind of cooldown between changing availablility with these would be nice.


Of course, you can always count on stupid people to both A) fall for it. and B) Fail at trying a scam in the first place


But the main (and only issue imo) is that there's no risk. Generating the flag that prevents docking or jumping as well would introduce some risk (Even if easily avoidable) and would prevent killrights + stationgames from being BFFs.

For people who were wondering about who would actually pay you to shoot you in dock range? Try fitting a massive buffer tank on a marauder and undocking from a mission hub with a 40-50m killright on you. People bite. Trade hubs? Works too. Like someone said above : You can always count on stupid people to fall for scams!
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-12-05 22:00:53 UTC
So a station camper gets burned? Big smileBig smileBig smile

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-12-05 22:07:48 UTC
This is the how they wanted it... after all this is the bit they call bounty hunting now... :)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2059112#post2059112

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Therran Promitz
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-05 23:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Therran Promitz
Emu Meo wrote:
A lot of this isn't so much creating a bounty hunting system, but more a system of a player run police force able to hunt targets who do wrong.



Hence the title "Retribution."

It seems that people are quickly losing sight what the intent of selling killrights and bounties are. Buying killrights allows you to hunt targets in HiSec, where the person that sold the right has probably placed a bounty on the target. Whoever is selling killrights are basically contracting out bounty hunters to get revenge on whoever aggressed them. But they aren't mutually inclusive; i.e. you don't need to place a bounty on your aggressor to sell his killright, but the bounty gives incentive.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#51 - 2012-12-05 23:40:13 UTC
Ashra Tesh wrote:
The fact that you can make ISK off this isn't a problem, and that wasn't the intent of my OP.

The main problem is that it's a way to make ISK without any risk to yourself. Most people doing this won't be sitting on a station with a docking radius they can be bumped away from. Most people don't this won't set the killright to be available if their alt sitting undock sees an alpha fleet waiting for them. Plus, when you're done you can just use the alt to make the killright private again and thus 'safe' from random violence (Due to killrights, at least) Some kind of cooldown between changing availablility with these would be nice.


Of course, you can always count on stupid people to both A) fall for it. and B) Fail at trying a scam in the first place


But the main (and only issue imo) is that there's no risk. Generating the flag that prevents docking or jumping as well would introduce some risk (Even if easily avoidable) and would prevent killrights + stationgames from being BFFs.

For people who were wondering about who would actually pay you to shoot you in dock range? Try fitting a massive buffer tank on a marauder and undocking from a mission hub with a 40-50m killright on you. People bite. Trade hubs? Works too. Like someone said above : You can always count on stupid people to fall for scams!

Ah, so the cat is slowly coming out of the bag now, huh? The system is flawed, and the bears are starting to take notice. "The kill right targets have too little risk," they say. "They need to be prevented from docking and jumping," they say. How about just giving people with 5.0 security status, or those who mine over 1 million m³ or more of ore per week, a button that allows them to explode anyone they don't like? That would balance out the relationship between the mean griefers and the honest, hardworking industrialists, right?

Oh and I like how CCP removed my post about the Summer 2013 hauler buffs. Real subtle guys. Want me to go write a Kotaku article about it instead?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

fukier
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-12-05 23:40:48 UTC
so what i have read is that all stations should be "kick out"

cool i have been advocating this for years...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-12-06 00:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
If they made bounty hunting so that it was more or less limited to bounty hunting corporations/fleets this would not be so big issue. However now that "bounty hunting" is pretty much only free for all gank fest outside stations you can expect people to exploit that with methods described earlier.

This was known to happen - people who I've talked to had the details figured out long before the patch came out. OP just wrote the exact "exploit" formula out loud now.

This is the very reason why bounty hunting should have been kept under development till the technical hurdles to make kill right activations affect only fleet/corporation would have been solved.

Hopefully some people are happy with current feature and what it offers to bounty hunting corporations. Personally I feel that now the hunting part of the bounty is pretty much a joke. No smiling here.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#54 - 2012-12-06 00:20:55 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
If they made bounty hunting so that it was more or less limited to bounty hunting corporations/fleets this would not be so big issue. However now that "bounty hunting" is pretty much only free for all gank fest outside stations you can expect people to exploit that with methods described earlier.

This was known to happen - people who I've talked to had the details figured out long before the patch came out. OP just wrote the exact "exploit" formula out loud now.

This is the very reason why bounty hunting should have been kept under development till the technical hurdles to make kill right activations affect only fleet/corporation would have been solved.

Hopefully some people are happy with current feature and what it offers to bounty hunting corporations. Personally I feel that now the hunting part of the bounty is pretty much a joke. No smiling here.

But according to the bears, these changes are great and the pirates are crying crocodile tears right now because they didn't see this coming from a mile away, and are now losing all of their assets left and right to honorable warriors, lol.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-12-06 00:48:21 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
There is only so much handholding we can do.

Really? I'd like to call you out on that one.


Alright, there is only so much handholding I'm willing to do Big smile



Maybe a bit to much tho tbh

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it

psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-12-06 00:55:37 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Being able to sell kill rights is the height of SWEET. Big smile

That is all (and I hope to see some sweet killmails and AWESOME pirate tears)....



You wont see pirate tears and if you do they are pansys kill rights and bountys have no effect on us realy we fight and die daily what do we care if someone gets couple mill on top of our km fact is we were gona die anyway becouse the way we play the game

every ship in my hanger i already consider a wreck becouse i know they way i play greatly increases the chances of it exploding

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it

Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-12-06 01:07:15 UTC
Yeah whatever pubbies keep whining about being able to die in the game where you're supposed to die, I'm too lazy to look on our forums or log into jabber, so can another goon tell me if this helps or affects our hi-sec operations at all?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#58 - 2012-12-06 01:09:58 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Yeah whatever pubbies keep whining about being able to die in the game where you're supposed to die, I'm too lazy to look on our forums or log into jabber, so can another goon tell me if this helps or affects our hi-sec operations at all?

It really doesn't. You have to use an alt to re-can after ganking now, otherwise everything is exactly the same. It doesn't mean CCP won't try again, though.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#59 - 2012-12-06 05:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: VonKolroth
Ashra Tesh wrote:
The fact that you can make ISK off this isn't a problem, and that wasn't the intent of my OP.

The main problem is that it's a way to make ISK without any risk to yourself. Most people doing this won't be sitting on a station with a docking radius they can be bumped away from. Most people don't this won't set the killright to be available if their alt sitting undock sees an alpha fleet waiting for them. Plus, when you're done you can just use the alt to make the killright private again and thus 'safe' from random violence (Due to killrights, at least) Some kind of cooldown between changing availablility with these would be nice.


Of course, you can always count on stupid people to both A) fall for it. and B) Fail at trying a scam in the first place


But the main (and only issue imo) is that there's no risk. Generating the flag that prevents docking or jumping as well would introduce some risk (Even if easily avoidable) and would prevent killrights + stationgames from being BFFs.

For people who were wondering about who would actually pay you to shoot you in dock range? Try fitting a massive buffer tank on a marauder and undocking from a mission hub with a 40-50m killright on you. People bite. Trade hubs? Works too. Like someone said above : You can always count on stupid people to fall for scams!


This is a silly argument as there are a ton of ways to scam other players out of their ISK with little or no risk and their always has been... You have the standard Market hub contracts and spam, swapping undockable capitals between characters with a less the desirable third-party, recruitment scams to bring carrier pilots out to 'their new home' just to blow them up.

Is CCP supposed to chase every down every scam and find a way to circumvent it? It would be so time ineffective it would be silly for one. Maybe it's the responsibility of the pilot in many cases to assess the situation before makes a decision.

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP

Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#60 - 2012-12-06 05:27:55 UTC
you can sell kill rights for 0 to infinity isk
you can place a bounty on pilot for 100K (i tihnk) to infinite isk


some people will set kill right cost to 0, and place a big bounty. working as intended
some people will set kill right cost to X. Working as intended.


some idiots will activate kill rights when the person is within docking range. working as intended
some idiots will sit 100km off station while a cloaky sneaks up on them and suddenly they get ambushed with a kill right activation. working as intended.

some idiots will whine on the forums. Working as intended.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.