Jita Park Speakers Corner

I would be extremely sad if they implemented this.....

Going up in a class makes typically implies larger guns, better range, better damage.... but you also gain weaknesses. The BIGGEST weakness that really balances PvP in EvE: large ships have a harder time of applying their increased firepower to small, fast moving targets. This means, a fit that's optimized to kill BS's won't efficiently kill frigates, and a fit that efficiently kills frigates won't be optimized to kill BS's.

I'm not sure what you two are arguing about.

It has nothing to do with pecularity and everything to do with balance. Large ships are already generally better. There is definately some degree of balance with regards to tracking and resolutions on larger weapons, but there's definately an edge to larger ships in EVE (slots, tracking modules etc.) which will cause balance issues if it's further sharpened.

I'm not sure if we want small ships more easily killed than they already are, or if we want to spend even more development time readjusting small ships or overall weapons balance to create more extremes that would allow this sort of multi-array RP-approach. We can't just add it because it's cool and let it play out - that's been done too often already.

The problem with adding something like what you discuss - is the additional work required to implement it well.

Ontop of that, nothing stop you from fitting smaller arrays to larger ships should you want to (out of some lore-fascination). It may not be better to do so, not appealing to do so or niched where it actually applies well, but it's reasonably balanced. The turrets have various sizes with different tracking values within class, you can give up bonuses and fit smaller classes and the missiles even have class-crossing sizes and bonuses (AML).

Whatever realism we get from game balancing is merely a happy bonus. Game balance should never be compromised in the name of "realism".

another sophmoric response.

i'm not sure you realize that i'm expressely advocating an imbalance between ships sizes. also, i'm not sure you realize that reality is built into everything we do. almost everything about EVE, has a basis somewhere in reality. bonus question: do you know why?

it may not ultimately matter when it comes to gameplay, however reality, which you so happily appear to tolerate, serves as a very, very good benchmark.

in other words i don't want my frigates "balanced" with cruisers.

A.) Big guns don't track small ships.... this is true in real life too.

B.) Rather than "small gun batteries", big ships are given drones. You can use drones to fend off small ships.... and small ships can destroy the drones. Just like in RL, gun batteries can be destroyed / disabled without needing to destroy the entire ship. This seems fair to me....

C.) People like it when David beats Goliath. They want that big guy to have a weakness a small guy can exploit. Merlin defeats Madam Mim not by becoming some big bad monster, but by turning into tiny bacteria... Luke Skywalker doesn't destroy the first deathstar with some huge fleet, but by using a small fighter craft.. This theme is found throughout science fiction, and frankly it opens up good gameplay options. Not to mention, there are many, many RL examples of how smaller, maneuverable force circumnavigate their "larger" opponents and demolish them. Building that into EvE's game design is ingenious, not sophomoric!

D.) Do you know why RL battleships went from being the cornerstone of Navy Power to obsolete in terms of modern day Navies? It's because fast, maneuverable aircraft obliterate them....

E.) We are talking about space ships.... RL isn't truly applicable....



The only thing sophomoric here is your attitude. You imply, that just because you're in a bigger ship, you should be able to defeat all "lower level" ships. This is very indicative of a WoW mentality: Oh, my level 50 Paladin should be virtually invulnerable to that level 20 character... And you have the audacity to call Malcanis simple minded? lol....

Here's something pretentious: EvE is better than that.... It is designed better than that... A frigate is just as much a danger to your BS as another BS, but in a different manner. This creates a dynamic and complex Rochambeau atmosphere, which is healthy and pretty awesome... This is also why skillpoints (another attribute often paralleled to character levels) aren't all that important. Once you cross the threshold of competency, it is NOT skillpoints that determine the outcome of a fight. How you fit and fly your ship matters far more.



So, it comes across as: You want your cruiser to be straight up superior to frigates in combat. If you get high tracking guns AND lower tracking high damage guns, you get both worlds, leaving you with few weaknesses.

Guess what.... that's a poorer game design for several reasons:
1.) A new player, that doesn't have a lot of isk or skillpoints can't get into a "bigger" ship so easily. And since your cruiser is straight up superior to that frigate, you essentially remove the ability of a new player to compete with an older player... And since SP aren't a "purchasable" item, this really disenfranchises your new players. I'm sorry, where you going to suggest SP for plex, too?

2.) It reduces tactical options. Currently, bigger is NOT better, but is only different. You gain some strengths (more firepower, more range, more tank), but you also gain some weaknesses (less ability to apply that firepower, less speed / maneuverability). This creates interesting tactical scenarios, where the weaknesses of bigger ships can be exploited by smaller ships. You essentially would remove these scenarios, because why? You want bigger to be better?

In short.... HELL NO

I think i'm in agreement with a lot of people here that pirate and navy ships should be addressed soon, possibly in the same patch as bc and bs. The problem now being that some of the 'better' variants now have relatively worse slot layouts than their t1 bretheren (like the Deimos and vigilant only have a single slot advantage on the thorax whereas they used to have 2) or in the worst possible case, the navy vexor being on par with a regular vexor. Now that's just sad.

Now maybe we can have a navy exequerior turned into a faction logistics ship ? huh? huh ?

T1 industrials, please. Always neglected and completely unbalanced.

And, how about adding a combat industrial? Perhaps, a true Battle Badger?

T2 ships should never be a downgrade from T1, with a shiny price-tag, when they have exactly the same specialty and similar bonuses... and share the same hull.

You should never lower the capacities of anything by spending time and money to Invent the T2 version from the T1 version... or you're the dumbest inventor and entrepreneur ever.

But overall, the work on T2 is not going to be as drastic as it was for T1, as they have already roles and philosophy.

I really like the treatment of T1, but I just regret to ride mostly T1 now, as T2 is no more worth it in some specialized roles I fly.

For the next BC/BS balancing patch, I would like to see CCP's thoughts on what to do about long range battleship guns. Rails, Beam lasers, and Cruise Missiles in particular (to a lesser extent, artillery) can snipe at extreme length (200-250km) but the current minimum warp mechanics prevent this from happening if you have a prober or a jump spot.

Uh, that's exactly what's CCP Fozzie is doing.